PTS New Gear

[Kiran]

To Avoid players using PvE weapons in PvP, Trion should move larger amount of Vengeance, Endurance and Valor from armor to PvP weapon.

So PVP players using relic weapons will be forced to use pvp weapons for the sake of survivability or they gonna die trying to kill some1 with full pvp gear

[Kiran]

Or add it to full pvp set bonus (including neck,rings,ranged,off hand,main hand) i mean full set.



Sorry for double post.. forum rules didn't allow me edit my post above

[HannonHellbringer]

To Avoid players using PvE weapons in PvP, Trion should move larger amount of Vengeance, Endurance and Valor from armor to PvP weapon.

So PVP players using relic weapons will be forced to use pvp weapons for the sake of survivability or they gonna die trying to kill some1 with full pvp gear

I like that idea, except it might open up other gear slots for HK relic/ID raid gear. I don't mind that so much but it still holds a lot of hit. I honestly think that hit is more of a problem than the gear itself. I think I would like hit to be either removed, or a version of hit be added to vengeance to balance the fights between relc wielding pvprs and pure geared pvprs. It also might make raid weapons viable but not BiS for pvp.

Just my thought. Sorry if I ever come off as rude, I don't mean to.

[Soze]

Super underwhelmed by the stats on the new tier of pvp gear.

I know alot of raiders are terrified of someone ever equipping a piece of pvp gear on a raid but that fear is not reason enough to roll out the new pvp gear with this negligible upgrade.

Please reconsider making the new tier of pvp gear an ACTUAL tier increase instead of this piddly endurance and vengeance increase.

[Valfador]

Looking at these pvp pieces on the pts i am not even remotely interested in getting them.
*equips ID gloves/helm and jogs on*

[Wakthor]

where is the new pvp gear i cant find it ?

[Havors]

Adding valor and vengeance should never have happened. It causes more head aches than it solves

[Misun]

Why not just separate the stats for pve and pvp? They did this in eq2, why wouldn't that work here? (it was also the same for spells and abilities)

For example, the pvp gear when you mouse over the item would have lower stats for pve..and the pve gear when you moused over it would have lower stats for pvp.

Scott Hartsman did a lot of work in eq2, why can't he implement something like that here?

And for goodness sakes, remove the need for hit/focus in pvp..or put it on the pvp gear.

[Violacea]

The puzzle is how can Trion create an inverse of their current situation.

PvE gear is needed to hit raid mobs, with pure pvp gear you cannot hit raid mobs.

Why can't..

PvP gear is needed to hit players, with pure pve gear you cannot hit players.

It is the copy cat concept just applied inversely to how the game works now. The problem is centered around the fact that you need aid of a couple pve pieces of gear or many runes of +hit to be viable. Going up against 20 - 30% base parry/dodge chances with 0% chance to bypass is not viable. Same way you wouldn't be very viable if you hit raid mobs in the same way.

Trion feels to be viable in raids you have 100% hit rates. Well guess what, players feel to be viable in pvp they need 100% hit rates. So they just wear +hit/focus to the degree needed to basically create the experience of 100% hit rates in pvp (minus temp buffs sometimes). This seriously needs a solution. It's a bigger problem than anything else in pvp realm. In the way you can perhaps sacrifice smaller amounts of full on equipping pve gear to kill the best raid mobs. To hit players you should be able to sacrifice little pvp gear.

You did the gimmick for raid mobs. Figure out a way to do the gimmick for players. In your scheme for the raid mobs it is in control and you guys have control over the curve. If you make it happen in pvp, you have control of that curve as well. Right now you have no control of pvp mechanics in that regard.

[Xillean]

The puzzle is how can Trion create an inverse of their current situation.

PvE gear is needed to hit raid mobs, with pure pvp gear you cannot hit raid mobs.

Why can't..

PvP gear is needed to hit players, with pure pve gear you cannot hit players.

It is the copy cat concept just applied inversely to how the game works now. The problem is centered around the fact that you need aid of a couple pve pieces of gear or many runes of +hit to be viable. Going up against 20 - 30% base parry/dodge chances with 0% chance to bypass is not viable. Same way you wouldn't be very viable if you hit raid mobs in the same way.

Trion feels to be viable in raids you have 100% hit rates. Well guess what, players feel to be viable in pvp they need 100% hit rates. So they just wear +hit/focus to the degree needed to basically create the experience of 100% hit rates in pvp (minus temp buffs sometimes). This seriously needs a solution. It's a bigger problem than anything else in pvp realm. In the way you can perhaps sacrifice smaller amounts of full on equipping pve gear to kill the best raid mobs. To hit players you should be able to sacrifice little pvp gear.

You did the gimmick for raid mobs. Figure out a way to do the gimmick for players. In your scheme for the raid mobs it is in control and you guys have control over the curve. If you make it happen in pvp, you have control of that curve as well. Right now you have no control of pvp mechanics in that regard.

The Accuracy stat could work for this to. Disable hit and focus for pvp period if they aren't going to give us any on our pvp weapons, and give us the Accuracy stat that provides what the hit and focus did. I really don't see how this is a bad thing, it would be a pvp only stats and therefore could not be used in pve so pver's couldn't cry they have to pvp to raid, and then pvpers couldn't cry they have to pve to pvp.

I really didn't see a problem with hit and focus working as long as we get a pvp equivalent stat so we don't feel super gimped by trying to use our pvp weapons, and no more vengeance or valor inst going to cut it, that doesn't address the core of the problem with hit and focus working in pvp in the first place. But what you said Violacea does make sense and I would be fine with that too though I still overall feel we would be alright as long as our pvp weapons got a Accuracy stat that mimicked hit/focus in pvp.

If your a raider and want to use your relic in pvp I don't really care, I also don't think our pvp gear should be close to a relic unless we get ways to obtain pvp relics, otherwise it doesn't do any good to compare our purple pvp gear to relics, even Elrar agreed on the test shard when I spoke to him. We need to make sure we compare our pvp gear to the vendor ID purples and what drops out of ID as purples not the relics. Our new pvp gear should be equal to the purple ID gear and as long as we get some kind of stat for hit/focus we would be fine imo.

I don't think raiders should be automatically punished for using there relic weapons or gear anymore then they already are, the disadvantages should be from the fact you lose a huge chunk of valor and vengeance equipping your relic weapons and 4 piece to use the pve crystals. Right now the main thing from that actually being the case is the lack of hit/focus on the pvp gear and if its such a huge concern about giving us some since we could use it in pve then make the Accuracy stat that mimics it for pvp only and call it a day so we aren't gimped in pvp.

Sorry for rambling my 2c on the subject... well maybe 4c with that wall of text :P

[Violacea]

If your a raider and want to use your relic in pvp I don't really care, I also don't think our pvp gear should be close to a relic unless we get ways to obtain pvp relics, otherwise it doesn't do any good to compare our purple pvp gear to relics, even Elrar agreed on the test shard when I spoke to him. We need to make sure we compare our pvp gear to the vendor ID purples and what drops out of ID as purples not the relics. Our new pvp gear should be equal to the purple ID gear and as long as we get some kind of stat for hit/focus we would be fine imo.

I compare them in the fact that Relics are the best option for pve and they come from the top notch level of pve gameplay. I don't care what color they are, the top notch pvp weapons should be the best thing to wear for pvp. With stat separation and pvp specific values demonstrated they can design something that is more powerful against players than the best pve weapon but not better against pve mobs than the best pve weapon. From what I see pvp weapons are not the best for raiding. Just apply the logic the other way.

Slapping on valor and vengeance doesn't matter and everyone knows. AP/damage reduction verses chance to bypass chunky amounts of dodge/parry/resist is not even apples and oranges, those are fruits and kind of similar. There is just no parallel to equality to be drawn between the functionality of the stats they thing are pulling the weight to make them desirable verses other choices.

I am okay with not comparing them directly to relics but, rank 50 weapons should perform better and damage players harder than ID relic weapons. You can be plenty viable in pvp without valor and vengeance. Going big with relic weapons and the right medium of relic set bonuses is viable. You are completely not viable in raid content without proper hit and the collection of the exclusive stat. The same is not for pvp. There is nothing required about valor and vengeance to do good in pvp. Lacking 25% max valor is not the same as lacking 25% max needed hit for a raid mob. Infact it's so good that lacking the pve stat makes you unviable in pvp. The stat is so good it is required for both sides even though logistically their model says it shouldn't be. Valor and Vengeance don't do anything in pve. I just hope the devs don't ignore this is all.

For the Trion team..They seem excited about their pvp update and gear. So excited about the models. Loved promoting new pictures. Well guess what, I won't be a fraction as excited as the PR writers and devs if they don't fix some rudimentary problems at the core of the gear model for pvp. We all know they want their players to be excited. And they know right now the players couldn't be more dissapointed than ever, and I'm usually one of the more optimistic. I'm still calling gear buffs but, releasing it this terrible I don't know who thought that was a good idea. IT just stirs up threads like this. They can't be serious about what is out right now. Who cares that they have place holder graphics, that they made note of in the notes. The weapons suck, I don't care about the graphics if they suck.

[TechnoMage]

Mixing relic gear with pvp gear is still a deadly combo. Fighting against someone with so much hit is a very scary fight. Using a shield means nothing, defensive CDs are pointless and passive defenses are nothing.

Sure valor helps a lot but it is possible to get enough valor to rampage through a fully geared pvp player. Only thing that saves me in open world matches when I find myself going against relic/pvp geared players is healing pots and my healing abilities. They are glass cannon but they pack a helluva punch with that kind of hit.

I have no problem with somebody who is willing to do double the amount of content having an advantage over somebody who is only willing to do one set.

This works both ways, if you raid and PvP I'm ok with you having an advantage over people who just PvP in PvP and over people who just PvE in PvE. You are putting in twice the amount of time, and when it comes down to it, time is the spending currency of most MMOs.

[jerwel]

To Avoid players using PvE weapons in PvP, Trion should move larger amount of Vengeance, Endurance and Valor from armor to PvP weapon.

So PVP players using relic weapons will be forced to use pvp weapons for the sake of survivability or they gonna die trying to kill some1 with full pvp gear

Actually to avoid pve weapons in pvp, they should do the same thing to pve gear as they did to pvp gear. Move a portion of the pve gears stats to pve only application, there is no reason why pve gear should be so effective in BOTH pve and pvp and pvp gear be very difficult to use in high end pve.

Beyond that focus needs a rework. It requires so little focus to bypass ALL the magic defense that a player could possibly stack its rediculous. The only thing I see as right atm for the gear is the increase in endurance, as our hp pools are FAR too small in pvp atm.

[jerwel]

I dont know anyone who dare attacks me in raid gear usually ends up at the graveyard sad. But I do say the new pvp gear needs a slight bump up maybe a few points. Nothing too big because it will start to be better BIS then HK for raiding. And I aggree that should never happen. But a good way to stop that is not allow it to be equipped in a raid dungeon. And vice versa with raid gear not being allowed in a WF.

The way things are now its not hard to spend half a day in both aspects of the game getting starter gear. I see no reason for trion to even allow the headache if they dont haved to.

You havent met a decent MM yet, have you? Zaros (sorry buddy cant spell your chars name off the top of my head) regularly goes 2x+/0 in the small maps wearing 4 pc hk and hk bow.

[Xillean]

We seem to agree with each other over all Violacea. Don't get me wrong I am not saying our pvp weapons shouldn't be bis for pvp, I was saying they should be, but Elrar made it clear on the test shard yesterday we shouldn't expect them to be equal to Relics so I am trying to make sure they get put on par with the purple id stuff which includes giving them hit/focus of some kind. And yes your logic is sound, not arguing that either the handicap as it where should work both ways ideally.

I feel that pvp gear should always be BIS for pvp and pve gear should always be BIS for pve, I don't mind either one being useable in each others content but when pve gear becomes bis for pvp or vice versus there is a major problem. We seem to agree on that, and really I wouldn't care if they disabled hit/focus in pvp and made a pvp only stat for that in pvp.

All I know as of right now our new pvp gear is so lackluster that I don't know why they bothered tbh. No core stat increase I saw of any kind and only on my cleric two hander and the one hander was the sp increased a bit and didn't budge the wis or int, I mean it should go up a little imo.