Bard Changes 1.9-(a preemptive discussion)

[phellman2]

Just setting the stage for a discussion on the vast changes that should be coming our way.

Bard's primary role in raid is to provide buffs. The current buffs provide a flat value. Because of this the benefit of the raid diminishes as it gets geared. For example, consider my warrior alt who is mostly raid 1 geared; He has roughly 750 AP/750 Crit. Looking at Motif of Bravery (62AP/SP), this provides a 8.2% buff to AP. The same motif on my HK geared rogue (1500AP Bloodstalker-unbuffed) provides a 4.1% buff to AP. When the raid has all ID gear, this benefit will fall to maybe 3% or lower.

A similar diminish in benefit happens to all the Fanfares. A solution to this issue would be to make all the buffs work off a percentage of unbuffed AP (buffed would create an infinite loop of befit).

This change will also make it clear how to itemize as bard.

[ItsFriday]

The problem I have with bards not scaling is that it causes the bard role to be too often forced upon whichever rogue has the worst gear, or whichever does the lowest dps, and it is against a guilds best interest to gear up their bard in the same way they do their other rogues. If they made bard abilities scale even a little bit, it would greatly benefit a guild to gear up their bard. I was very happy to hear about a bard-specific sword in ID but one item isn't enough to make a bard feel like their doing all they can, gear-wise, to be the best bard that they can be.

[phellman2]

A guildmate of mine brought this up, Archon buffs should also scale in a similar way.

Buff classes should benefit from gear in a similar way that tanks, dps, and heals do.

[terran698]

bard buff scaling based on gear.... /signed

[Sebb]

Step 2: Make barding more interesting!

[phellman2]

Step 2: Make barding more interesting!

Baby Steps.

[Violacea]

- give cadence 30m range and calculate off ranged weapon

- Instead of earning a new Fanfare as you spent points in the soul, give the bard 1 singular Fanfare that simply gains stats the more you spend in the soul. ie. If the first FF is the dex one okay. When you get the next FF (guessing) that is End., your one fanfare now grants dex and end, etc. Now that they were made to stack having to cast buffs for 9s is ridiculous.

- This is kinda more for all callings, but bard feels like a lot. Make all buffs 'aura' buffs, like their Anthems are. If you are in range of the bard, you receive the bards buffs, period. None of this, have to be near at the time of cast. Now I do think it is appropriate if you have bard buffs, and get a buff stripped, to receive it again you should have to have the bard recast the buff. I don't think that would be over the top if all buffs were aura.

- Buff consolidation in other areas like motifs. 5x motifs on 30s is annoying and unfun. Only fun I had was putting them in order of lowest to highest notes they sound in the game and actually managing to play "Mary had a little lamb" on my bard (damn 1s gcd tempo killed it). Maybe work the motifs how I suggested for the Fanfares. Consolidate the finishers that debuff physical and magical damage into one singular debuff that debuffs magic and physical.

- After all of this consolidation, it gives room to employ some creativity into the bard soul after cleaning up the clutter that is better off consolidated and give the bard a little more fun of shoes to play in.

So many wasted spots. Wasted spots gaining excessive motifs and buffs. 5 points to increase effectiveness of anthems, 5 points to increase range of motifs, 5 points to increase effectiveness of fanfares. It's just so much redundant and boring points. Cut the fat, consolidate the stuff into solid abilities, and give the bard some life.

[WriteThemWrong]

If they scaled, motif agro would too strong and tanks would never be able to get agro away from the bard.

[Primalthirst]

Bard and Archon buffs should scale, but it would need to be well balanced.
Because if it isn't then all gear would go to the Bard/Archon since they'd provide the overall highest stat gain to the raid.

[weiland]

for the love of sanity

• Reduce the cast time of Fanfares *seriously 6seconds of wasted time for 3 buffs in the middle of a raid fight seems to take forever

• Better scaling of Cadence

• Remove the Channeling from Cadence (if the special little drummer boy can march and keep time we should too)

• Direct Healing Chord 3sec channel (see what i did there) *would allow us to cue up as support/heals in randoms faster cues

• Healing Dummies that actually take bard heals for parsing

• Condense some of our points so you can give us a battle rez *hey u know those other 6seconds we bards waste re-applying fanfares .. well there ya go

[Huca]

Hotfix:
- Make motifs last 1 min.
- Increase cadence range to 30m.
- Lower buff cast time to 1sec, instead of 3secs.

Somewhere in time:
- Make buffs scale
- Give us a dps and a hps stance (like the defensive / offensive stance in RS).
- Give us a battlerez.

[Mirimon]

Agreed, as a long time bard (no, not because I am least geared, and not because I am low on dps (fact is I run with the top of our raid dps meters when I dps) I do it because it can be done badly...) The issues with bard heve not changed, and as we progress in content the handicapped poor little bard is falling more behind.

*Buff scaling as mentioned before.
*30 meter cadence range
*invigorated soul proccing on trinkets/greater essences and not just motiff of regeneration
*replace that completly unseless motiff of encouragement with Battle Rez and Cleanse!!
*bard attack abilities should always be based off of the rogues ranged weapon, they are ranged attacks after all...
* motiffs, in general, need changes, and there are a couple ways to go there
a) make an ability using a combo point as a finisher that refreshes all buffs
b) make all motiffs simply condense under one and progress in ability and scaling as points in bard are spent
c) make different types of harmonic resonance, depending on the order the motiffs are applied
*cadence, power chord, and for that matter any rogue abilities that are primary to that soul should proc poisons/weapons enhancements (sab charges upon detonation also come to mind)
* how about a pied piper cd, that lets us summon hundreds of rats that swarm the enemy causing damage and infecting them with several diseases reducing stats?

There are a ton of creative ideads for barding to help make this feel alot less mind numbingly hum drum, we are asking not to become full fleged healers, we are asking to simply make supporting a group better, less mindless, more worthwhile and more rewarding. Barding needs to not be the black sheep.. Bard is a required job in raid content and is the least rewarding, being cast aside and not even considered for loot. Bards should be thought of in ways that cause raid groups to actually consider rewarding their bard over a dps. Only one person can do it, make it effective, rewarding, worth while, and scale appropriately.
The days of beta testing over a year ago are gone, people now understand their class souls and how to use them best, bring back the ability for a bard to stand toe to toe and grind out cadence w/o being squishy (during beta people not knowing their classes were threatened by bard in pvp resulting in the first and everlasting bard nerf)

oh, and could we get him to actually play something more like a melody? these random notes getting mashed out by a drunken 3 year old on a fisher price xylaphone need removed. different melodies based on the "tone" of what the bard is doing and how he is effecting the group.

[weiland]

.. .. .. Barding needs to not be the black sheep.. Bard is a required job in raid content and is the least rewarding, being cast aside and not even considered for loot.

here here .. tired of hearing "All the rogues, not you stuning ur a bard, roll"

oh, and could we get him to actually play something more like a melody? these random notes getting mashed out by a drunken 3 year old on a fisher price xylaphone need removed. different melodies based on the "tone" of what the bard is doing and how he is effecting the group.

This really doesn't effect me as i usually play w/o sounds but it would be nice to try and jam out some Master of Puppets (cept for that 1sec GCD would probally put a damper of the whole thing)

[vexare]

+1 for scaling

[hejtmane]

I like to add something are debuffs all require 5 combo points which make them whats the point

7% magic damage instant cast last 60S from clerics so they can start the fight with it before we can get 1 gcd off

we have to build 5 cp to get 30s so no point let the cleric your raid is better off and will do more damage because he can keep it up easier and sooner than us.

Illuminate instant cast only last 20S to are 60s but the damage is a lot less with out building CPs

Just something that makes being a bard painful

That and being mind numbing boring playing it