Cleric Healer Changes in 1.8

[Anmila]

One more thing to note: we've decided to go ahead and bring Healing Communion down to 85% of normal in PvP.

Hooray, more nerfs! Good job!

Since you are neutering our HPS, can you please fix some of our DPS so we can at least compete with any of the other classes? (and I do not mean add another half *** buff that we have to cast on all of our classes like the last time.)

[ltank]

So what your saying is, nerf everyone else so I can look OP and kill every other class without haveing to try.

Good reason to want nerfs....

BTW when there are no more clerics, the first people they go after will be you 'squishy' mages.

No that's not what I am saying. But you go ahead and put words in my mouth if that makes you feel better since I've rebutted everything you've said so far.

[Sebb]

I think some of you may be a little confused. When I say Healing Spray heals for 70% of normal in PvP, I mean it heals for 70% of what you normally heal for, total, end of statement. It's a single entry field on the heal effect, not a series of invisible debuffs. There is no additive assumption based on previous nerfs to those spells.

In the case of Healing Spray, it's set to 0.7, meaning your final healing is multiplied by 0.7 in PvP. In the case of Soothing Streams, I previously set it to 0.5, then changed it to 0.6, but that change hadn't made it up to PTS at the time of my original posting.

One more thing to note: we've decided to go ahead and bring Healing Communion down to 85% of normal in PvP.

As a warrior that depends on clerics to even be able to pvp effectively, I must say I'm becoming more and more concerned. I've beat senselessly on wardens enough to admit something had to be changed, but it's going to come highly at the cost of general group healing.

It would have been a much better solution IMO to improve silence and other CCs. The PAs and head enchant combined with DRs made it effectively impossible to stop wardens from healing. While I'm thankful that they will be casting HI and RF which are interruptible, the HC nerf might not be necessary.

PS I don't pvp on my cleric, so this is pure warrior opinion :-)

[Jewels]

One more thing to note: we've decided to go ahead and bring Healing Communion down to 85% of normal in PvP.

Why? I want some serious, concrete, this is the math that says an insanely expensive heal with a cast time was over powered in pvp reasoning.

Don't worry, I don't expect you to actually do anything other than snark.

[Kaelani]

I stopped reading at ... Patch 1.9 ... was expecting a better reply.

That's ok. I didn't read your reply either.

[Beringer]

Here's the basic rundown of how the code checks whether to apply the modifier:

Are you a player? Of course. Otherwise you wouldn't be asking the question.
Is the target in PvP combat? If yes, apply the modifier. If no, then don't.

By "in PvP combat" I do not mean flagged. I do not mean in a Warfront. I do not mean on a PvP server. When you take action against an enemy player or an enemy player takes an action against you, a 15 second timer begins. Any further such actions refresh that timer. For as long as that timer is going, you are in PvP combat.

If a player applies a 5 minute debuff to you and then runs away. You will not be in PvP combat for 4 minutes and 45 seconds if you avoid further PvP actions.

It's all somewhat obvious, which is why I try to boil it down to simplicities. However, I can certainly understand the confusion, based on how it could work. Hence my attempts to discuss separately the impact of PvP from questions about its functionality.

If the part about debuffs is true, then it would presumably be the same with raid/group buffs?

Currently, the cleric Inquisitor raid buff "Spiritual Protection" will keep your PvP flag up forever. When you are grouped with a PvP-flagged player, you will never get rid of your PvP flag no matter if there is no "PvP combat" going on. Is this behavior a bug then?

[Undrsiege]

First there was a problem with instants and then a problem with hots and now a problem with a mana intensive 2 sec cast. DPS is going to be sweet in 1.8 I can promise you that and @self keeps getting better and better. I bet the forums will have more qq from other classes than clerics after 1.8 drops...

[Killforbeer]

That's ok. I didn't read your reply either.

Oh ... Yes you did... stop lying...

Sorry...

[Queezy]

I think some of you may be a little confused. When I say Healing Spray heals for 70% of normal in PvP, I mean it heals for 70% of what you normally heal for, total, end of statement. It's a single entry field on the heal effect, not a series of invisible debuffs. There is no additive assumption based on previous nerfs to those spells.

In the case of Healing Spray, it's set to 0.7, meaning your final healing is multiplied by 0.7 in PvP. In the case of Soothing Streams, I previously set it to 0.5, then changed it to 0.6, but that change hadn't made it up to PTS at the time of my original posting.

One more thing to note: we've decided to go ahead and bring Healing Communion down to 85% of normal in PvP.

Lol, im sorry poor clerics i really am. I dont think ive seen then much "slap in the face" since the changes to Sab/pyro in 1.1

[Zinbik]

now a problem with a mana intensive 2 sec cast.

Due to the way Serendipity works, unless you're casting Healing Communion with no one around, Healing Communion is nearly always a 0.5s cast every other cast. The only reason it's not a 0.5s cast every cast is because of the 1s internal cooldown on Serendipity. Despite its high cost, it can still be cast repetitively for a significant period of time. It currently has no reduction on LIVE, hence the decision that it be brought down slightly.

[Undrsiege]

Due to the way Serendipity works, unless you're casting Healing Communion with no one around, Healing Communion is nearly always a 0.5s cast every other cast. The only reason it's not a 0.5s cast every cast is because of the 1s internal cooldown on Serendipity. Despite its high cost, it can still be cast repetitively for a significant period of time. It currently has no reduction on LIVE, hence the decision that it be brought down slightly.

Fair enough to me...


Maybe you can shed some light on this. Why does a Mage benefit from the primary stat only when determining the mana pool? Mages have 3k+ more than clerics and this is a serious imbalance when they also have many more mana regen skills in trees that do not require you to use a melee ability to gain mana or a junk 15% 2 min cd. The ability for a mage to gain mana pool from a single stat is broken and not a fair balance, and we both know regen cannot even be part of the discussion as it was nerfed beyond usefulness.. So can we also split mages mana pool from 2 stats like the cleric so they can be more cautious of drains and such.

[Undrsiege]

The only reason it's not a 0.5s cast every cast is because of the 1s internal cooldown on Serendipity.

Correction: It can be 0.5s every cast since the 1s icd is shorter than the 1.5s GCD.

[Sariina]

In the case of Healing Spray, it's set to 0.7, meaning your final healing is multiplied by 0.7 in PvP. In the case of Soothing Streams, I previously set it to 0.5, then changed it to 0.6, but that change hadn't made it up to PTS at the time of my original posting.

Pretty much all healing already was nerfed for PVP combat, assuming using this same modifier you describe. I believe that was by 50% way back in 1.4. So are you saying healing from healing spray was changed from 0.5 to 0.7? That seems like a buff to HOTs and not a nerf.

I know you described it pretty clearly, but if this description is true then the patch notes could read:

Soothing Stream: Now heals 60% of normal in PvP, previously it was 50%.
Healing Flood: Now heals 50% of normal in PvP, previously it was 50%.
Healing Spray: Now heals 70% of normal in PvP, previously it was 50%.
Overflow: Now heals 25% of normal in PvP, previously it was 50%.

[Quietmode]

Correction: It can be 0.5s every cast since the 1s icd is shorter than the 1.5s GCD.

0.0 seconds: Start casting 2.0second HC
1.5 seconds: GCD ends
2.0 seconds: HC casts

Serendipity Procs

Serendipity ICD starts

Start casting Serendipity HC

2.5 seconds: HC casts [No Proc]
3.0 seconds: Serendipty ICD ends
3.5 seconds: GCD ends

New HC has no Serendipity

[Anmila]

Due to the way Serendipity works, unless you're casting Healing Communion with no one around, Healing Communion is nearly always a 0.5s cast every other cast. The only reason it's not a 0.5s cast every cast is because of the 1s internal cooldown on Serendipity. Despite its high cost, it can still be cast repetitively for a significant period of time. It currently has no reduction on LIVE, hence the decision that it be brought down slightly.

Since nothing with Clerics apparently works well, it may be easier for you just to delete the cleric class alltogether and call it a day.