Cleric Healer Changes in 1.8

[CoreSyntax]

Nice troll. Thanks for the pushback immunity.

For all the pvp whiners, like I and many others said when the changes were announced, have fun facing off against senticars with actual mitigation as well as heals. You still can't kill healers without a spec for it and some brains, so I imagine the wahwah threads will recommence shortly.

At 1st I thought he was trolling, but then realized he just didn't understand the point the guy was trying to make. Either way I have no faith in the Cleric dev.

[Zinbik]

at what point does the weaker PvP-only healing come into effect?

As soon as one of you engages in combat with another player. It will last until they're dead or otherwise gone.

[the_real_seebs]

[*]If you are on a PvE server and do not wish to engage in PvP in the open world, do not flag yourself for PvP.[*]If you wish to avoid flagging automatically through combat, go into Settings->Interface->Combat and uncheck PvP Auto Flag.

You forgot:

• If the unchecked PvP Auto Flag button has been broken for months, remind the devs of it repeatedly.

(Because it has. It changed months ago and is currently moderately unreliable.)

[*]If you should find yourself flagged, simply type /pvp and avoid PvP combat until the, "PvP Turning Off" buff goes away.

This is not really an adequate solution for the fairly common use case of "I do not want to become flagged, period."

[Anmila]

• If you are on a PvE server and do not wish to engage in PvP in the open world, do not flag yourself for PvP.
• If you wish to avoid flagging automatically through combat, go into Settings->Interface->Combat and uncheck PvP Auto Flag.
• If you should find yourself flagged, simply type /pvp and avoid PvP combat until the, "PvP Turning Off" buff goes away.
• If you are on a PvP server and are concerned about the dangers of PvP, I would suggest transferring to a PvE server.

No kidding? I mean that wasnt really the point of the person asking the question, they wanted to know what would happen. You sound like your getting mad about people asking legit questions. I know you take alot of crap from everyone not liking these changes, but it was a legit question the player asked.

Lets not get silly...

[the_real_seebs]

If you are in combat with another player, you are engaged in player vs. player combat. Therefore your healing will be reduced. The risk of PvP during PvE in PvP events is the entire point of PvP events.

How do you define "combat with another player"?

Let's say I'm an unflagged tank, and I have an unflagged healer healing me, and also a flagged healer healing me, and also healing someone else. The someone else hits a player.

The someone else is clearly in combat with another player.
Is the flagged healer in combat with another player?
Am I, the unflagged tank, in combat with another player?
How about my unflagged healer?

[Flashmemory]

I guess, i'll repeat myself.. Long rant

You nerf a class instead of buff the other classes. Let me break it down to you in the most simplest term possible:

Nerf = unsub, quitting, player frustration, rerolling, loss of game appeal and confidence in dev.

Buff = resub, less frustration, more interest, more players, more confidence, A sense that the devs are moving forward instead of backwards.

Right now I feel that the approach that is being taken to healing is moving backwards. Basically you are making the clerics re- earn what they have. I see why clerics need to be nerfed. I understand they will become too OP with progression since healing doesn't have anything to curve it outside of player applied debuffs where damage has many things that can curve it.

Block/parry/dodge/surval cd/ teleports and mobility all types of cc..armor etc. All of these things influence damage and I can name practically 10 more things that have a negative impact on damage which produce a positive influence on healing.

I TOTALLY GET IT..

What I don't understand is that you nerf healing in one soul when you can simply buff the other classes and get rid of the problem with a counter .. A simple solution I see would be to make some of the healing debuffs stack.

Possibly work it out to hit 100% with 3 or 4 heal debuffs of various souls. The intention of focus fire is to kill the target. Possibly add a cleanable heal debuff in another warrior tree other than champ so every warrior is not forced to spec into LW. We'll have 2 heal debuffs from warrior. 1 that can be cleansed and another that remains not cleanable. then the rogues have 2 or 3 with anathema all are cleanable. Maybe make anathema not cleanable. Point is whatever you decide the truth still remains..buff equals progress..revisiting an old issue equals waste of development and player frustration.

I honestly would have liked to see an additional soul added to each of our classes after one year. Another game that is releasing a sequel added two additional classes per expansion with tons of abilities for each.

Sorry to say but I feel for the most part we are revisiting old issues and not going anywhere... and the old crowd is going to be unhappy with a lot of the changes. Actually I think as a rogue, warrior, cleric..I haven't been happy with the majority of changes since 1.5. Raiding is nice though...I give Rift a gold star for that.

[CoreSyntax]

I guess his post can be boiled down to a concern about 1 player trashing a tank, lets say tanking an expert rift before the 3 dps cant do anything about it because the tank will be receiving substantially less healing plus full damage from the rift.

Therefore wiping the team.
I always PvE in my PvP gear, but not everyone is PR40 and I myself have wiped a few expert rifts.

There was no uproar when the reduced healing in PvP came in, unless people didn't realize...
But I don't see these changes making it much worse. Just don't play Warden if it is.

[Zinbik]

How do you define "combat with another player"?

Let's say I'm an unflagged tank, and I have an unflagged healer healing me, and also a flagged healer healing me, and also healing someone else. The someone else hits a player.

The someone else is clearly in combat with another player.
Is the flagged healer in combat with another player?
Am I, the unflagged tank, in combat with another player?
How about my unflagged healer?

Here's the basic rundown of how the code checks whether to apply the modifier:

Are you a player? Of course. Otherwise you wouldn't be asking the question.
Is the target in PvP combat? If yes, apply the modifier. If no, then don't.

By "in PvP combat" I do not mean flagged. I do not mean in a Warfront. I do not mean on a PvP server. When you take action against an enemy player or an enemy player takes an action against you, a 15 second timer begins. Any further such actions refresh that timer. For as long as that timer is going, you are in PvP combat.

If a player applies a 5 minute debuff to you and then runs away. You will not be in PvP combat for 4 minutes and 45 seconds if you avoid further PvP actions.

It's all somewhat obvious, which is why I try to boil it down to simplicities. However, I can certainly understand the confusion, based on how it could work. Hence my attempts to discuss separately the impact of PvP from questions about its functionality.

[Rudolf]

There was no uproar when the reduced healing in PvP came in, unless people didn't realize...
But I don't see these changes making it much worse. Just don't play Warden if it is.

Or just kill the player before he hit tank.

If you really worry about expert/raid rifts on pvp server, transfer to a pve shard, you do not belong here.

[Anmila]

Here's the basic rundown of how the code checks whether to apply the modifier:

Are you a player? Of course. Otherwise you wouldn't be asking the question.
Is the target in PvP combat? If yes, apply the modifier. If no, then don't.

By "in PvP combat" I do not mean flagged. I do not mean in a Warfront. I do not mean on a PvP server. When you take action against an enemy player or an enemy player takes an action against you, a 15 second timer begins. Any further such actions refresh that timer. For as long as that timer is going, you are in PvP combat.

If a player applies a 5 minute debuff to you and then runs away. You will not be in PvP combat for 4 minutes and 45 seconds if you avoid further PvP actions.

It's all somewhat obvious, which is why I try to boil it down to simplicities. However, I can certainly understand the confusion, based on how it could work. Hence my attempts to discuss separately the impact of PvP from questions about its functionality.

Thanks for clarification. I also figured this was the answer but I think this should clarify the answer for the person who posed the question.

[Eughe]

For all the pvp whiners, like I and many others said when the changes were announced, have fun facing off against senticars with actual mitigation as well as heals. You still can't kill healers without a spec for it and some brains, so I imagine the wahwah threads will recommence shortly.

Ah dont worry about that.
They will hotfix it so that all the mitigation happens only with MoL on and block all heals whilst MoL is on.

Appeasing the dps crowd


What i do wonder is how people will deal with Cabs and SCs now.

Oh! i know, nerf.

[the_real_seebs]

Here's the basic rundown of how the code checks whether to apply the modifier:

Are you a player? Of course. Otherwise you wouldn't be asking the question.
Is the target in PvP combat? If yes, apply the modifier. If no, then don't.

By "in PvP combat" I do not mean flagged. I do not mean in a Warfront. I do not mean on a PvP server. When you take action against an enemy player or an enemy player takes an action against you, a 15 second timer begins. Any further such actions refresh that timer. For as long as that timer is going, you are in PvP combat.

AH-HAH! That is super useful.

Any chance that could be exposed through the buff/debuff interface? For instance, say I'm healing people -- it could be useful to know which of my targets are currently considered to be in PvP, if it's going to substantially affect my healing output.

It's all somewhat obvious, which is why I try to boil it down to simplicities. However, I can certainly understand the confusion, based on how it could work. Hence my attempts to discuss separately the impact of PvP from questions about its functionality.

Makes sense.

[Feine]

Thanks for clarification. I also figured this was the answer but I think this should clarify the answer for the person who posed the question.

It clarifies it perfectly, thank you.

[CoreSyntax]

Or just kill the player before he hit tank.

If you really worry about expert/raid rifts on pvp server, transfer to a pve shard, you do not belong here.

I don't think you understand the point in a PvP server.
I'm not on a PvP server to join WF queues.

& I suggest you reread my post. I was clearly referring to another post, not my opinion on the subject.

[Arynite]

Chloromancers also use these trinkets.

This is also a very very good point.

I currently feel trinket/essence choice on my cleric has a much weaker impact on my performance than it has on my chloro.

On live servers, a good amount of the time I proc heal trinkets/essences, as a pure healing cleric they go to waste as overheal. Therefore I use valor trinkets/essences.

On my Chloromancer, I see my heal procs actually heal people (not overheal) a lot more often.

This might not be the case on the test servers with the new heal reductions. I'd suggest holding off on any changes to heal procs until more testing with the current healing changes is done.