I agree with the need for a Silgen nerf.
I believe the slivers were supposed to be a viable alternative to 20 man raids and love them. DH and GP are perfectly in sync with T1 raids I dont believe ROTP is inline with HK.
DH is equivalent to GSB
GP is equivalent to ROS
the 1st 2 bosses in ROTP are fine and a nice step up and doable in T1 raid gear. Silgen is just far too unforgiving, bit of lag or mele pick wrong way to run and its a wipe.
The main issue is that a large majority of certain class weapons/chests/legs either drop from High end HK bosses or Silgen or above in ROTP. Its just a massive brick wall in terms of progression.
We gave up even attempting Silgen a long time ago and do HK instead. HK bosses are a challenge to us, but at least we forsee progression and work on a boss 2 or 3 weeks and then get it down. Silgen we could work on for months at end and get nowhere, and there are very few drops on the way to him that help gear up guildies to aid progression with him.
On the cleanse macro. This one really gets my goat I find it far too specific to require an exact class with an exact macro to be able to attempt this fight. (Yes I know some elite guilds will say thy can do it without) but most cant.
Main issue is there is no chance of progression raids in ROTP. Once you hit Silgen you MUST have the DPS/GEAR/Exact raid makeup else its just a brick wall.
I use a Pyro Chloro Archon for the cleanse spec. Cleanse and debuff all I do. This is the only time I use this spec. Thank you 6th role.
It did take us way to many attempts. But well worth all the wipes.
You don't need to work on it for months on end, the more casual guild I'm also in did maybe 3 weeks on it and cleared him and have brought a lot of new players and all sorts of raid makeups through the fight and most are only T1 raid geared with very few T2 raid pieces but due to the nature of the raid schedule haven't had time left to down Arakhurn on the same night since people need to go sleep when Silgen goes down in the end. He isn't very mechanically challenging so the fight is easy to learn, just extremely twitchy/RNG with a difficult DPS check for T1 raid geared players. It was extremely satisfying to actually down him without overgearing the fight but the fight can be very frustrating when not overgearing it with the level of drops it's meant to give.
Last edited by Gyftov; 03-22-2012 at 07:47 AM.
Speaking as someone who spent ~150 attempt at Silgen over 5 nights before finally downing him, he doesn't need a nerf. People just need to pay attention, that's all. Especially since now you have what, like 7 seconds to get the cleanses off? You used to have to actually pick who got cleansed based on what spell they had on them. Now you can run a simply cleanse 1-10 macro and literally run around like an idiot all fight. Cleanser keeps dying? Throw them in tank gear and problem solved.
Hell, a cleric tank can damn near solo cleanse it WHILE TANKING because of these nerfs. Maybe switch Silgen and High Priest and make it so Silgen is the last boss of the instance - it would feel a little bit better, especially for how easy High Priest is compared to Silgen.
This is supposed to be an HK level raid. Not an HK level ENTRY raid, but an HK level raid for players who are in lower HK making progression. It's not for a 10 man that's sitting in nothing but t1 gear, it wasn't designed that way, and it shouldn't be that way. Especially since a lot of the drops in there are either BiS or 1/2 slots under the HK hexed gear.
Honestly, people just need to give it a few more goes and stop giving up after 3 attempts. None of the fights in there are hard in any way shape or form, the only "hard" part is paying attention. Have someone call out Heat Funnel a few seconds before it goes off every time and it helps. A lot.
I dont understand the requests to nerf content (if it's impossible than ok, but just moving it from hard to medium difficulty is meh)
You want all the content to look like DH? Currently we're clearing DH in 40 mins with alts (blue gear).
Nerfing too much isn't fun, its just lame. Where is the challenge? Are you there just for the loot? after a month of clearing you will runeshard most items anyway.
IMO having a balance of easy/medium raiding content and a medium/hard raiding content is great. Let's not make everything easy.
I did a random expert with a t1 geared cleric who couldn't pull more than 700 dps, No judging, but if all bosses will be adjusted to accordingly what will raiders do?
I think that there is enough nerfed content for casual people.
On that note, please nerf ID.
Last edited by Zimbardo; 03-22-2012 at 08:33 AM.
Silgen has already been nerfed quite a few times ( and 1.8 will bring another nerf to it )
I personally was there in the PTS before release, and downed silgen with my guild.
The cleanse times were far more strict ( cant remember the exact time). Basically this meant, that if you were on a GCD while the bombs popped up, you missed atleast the other one of them. And also if someone got hit by a funnel, and then got bomb debuff, you had to cleanse funnel first, then bomb, leaving the other person with bomb most likely to die.
Now they have increased the timer on bombs, and made funnel debuff not cleanseable.
And funnel damage. Dont be ridiculous people. you only get hit if you truly slack on the encounter. You see the cast, you start moving. You notice it spawned near you, you just keep moving, it wont hit you unless you are dumb and move towards it.
and if you say it can catch you .. no it can not. You have bard runspeed, you have performance insoles, you have headstart on movement...
And yes. I talk with the experience of a healer, cleanser, range DPS. I have also been on melee with my warrior alt, ALT! And also once melee on my cleric main, but its irrelevant here.
And also what comes to cleansing. The "cleansing macro" where you put all raidmembers names in one button didnt work before, due to funnel debuff. Now you can use it, but it can still fail you since it can cleanse a concussion before a time bomb - which will fail you. I personally have always just used mouseover cleansing on raidframes. works really efficiently. After cleanses i got 2 CGDs to spend on healing before i have to cleanse again.
And what comes to the nerf i talked about. Cleric aoe cleanse will be smart target --And as i now will think of it it doesnt matter for this encounter
ROTP isn't meant to be easy.
The first couple times I went into ROTP, my group wasn't close to geared enough to complete it. It's supposed to be HK equivalent 10 man from what I understand.
If you find your group is lacking in DPS, then DH, GP, ROS, and GSB are there to help progress to the level that ROTP demands.
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Silgen is perhaps even abit too easy now. The guild i am in in killed him before the gear buffs using gear from t1 raids. After the gear buffs expert gear players have the same amount of weapon dps we had back then, no excuses are valid when EVERYTHING in t1 raids are better then relics from before the item buffs.
Grab your gear from mastermode/t1 raids and you could even have a person dead for half the fight.
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As easy as some people are claiming Silgen is, i will only say the fight at 300ms latency like some others when you have split second decisions such as move out of the fire can be alot more annoying, especially when you have 1 or 2 melee maybe more. We cleared it at first with no melee all ranged, practice practice practice and we barely had the DPS killing him during the cast of his last incinerate. Following week we did it with 1 melee having 5 or so seconds left, they usually die more then others, its the red 'bomb' debuff they get that confuses them thinking its heat funnel, like i said split second decisions with 300ms not fun.
I know derp l2play etc, but for a guild that only spends 1 night a week on him i think we've come quite far but its incredibly hard to reliably kill him and I'd go as far as to say he's harder then the last boss which just makes no sense.
- Reduce the damage from heat funnel by 1/3 or 1/2 were not all twitchy with 50ms latency and I'm tired of fights hating melee so much
- Do something about the stupid dispel spamming, wtf who ever came up with that needs their head examined its an incredibly stupid mechanic to force 1 person to spend 90% of their uptime dispelling.
Unless people know a better way or use 2 ppl dispelling to lighten the load that can still heal/dps fairly well, that's all i could ask for, keep everything else just the way it is gives enough challenge without so many of these stupid "split second die moments".
Heat funnel is not that bad, you can see him casting/channeling it to a spot on the floor. Typically you should be able to survive a hit from it (and perhaps a heat wave hit at nearly the same time), so even if you were a little slow to move, you should able to survive it. We sometimes have our dedicated cleanser wear tank/hp gear since they will be cleansing pretty much the whole time and the added survivability ensures that they don't die from any damage.
Otherwise I will say that RotP is fine as is.
Last edited by Adastra; 03-22-2012 at 10:32 AM.
There is no way that a 10 man should be harder than a 20 man and with the current and inc changes to HK Silgen at least is harder than just about any HK mob. That is really the only issue in the zone. You can accomplish this by any of a number of methods. Drop his HP, add a padre, make rhe funnel pause before the first tic (but up the damage maybe to compensate so the same damage is maintained from a full channel) etc.
Other than that it is pretty solid imo.
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Casual does not mean Lazy
God forbid you have to try a little to get your carrot on the end of your stick, and it feels like you actually accomplished something when you do.
The DPS check on Silgen is a bit too high as others have said.
You must have a fair amount of 20-man gear, or else very good specs/rotations + excellent execution. That is a little too demanding.
Yeah yeah, I know that everyone who sets foot in a raid "should" have the forum-favorite theorycrafted max DPS spec and manage their rotation flawlessly while never dying to mechanics. And if they don't they are bad, should L2P, don't "deserve" to kill raid bosses, and the other 9 people who were foolish enough to bring them to a raid don't deserve to kill raid bosses either.
But peen-jockey posturing aside, it's still a little too demanding. The average raider - not bad, not incompetent, just average - is a liability on Silgen until he outgears it. You need to field a raid of nearly all above-average raiders to do this fight in appropriate gear.
That is too much to ask of most raid leaders, myself included. By definition there aren't that many above-average raiders around. And then you have the problem of needing to reject average raiders, appropriately geared, who want to go. The social cost of doing that is high - too high for me. I've just been skipping ROTP and waiting until more people overgear it before I will lead raids there again.