38LikesI never said its OK for clerics to be the clear best healer, and the way thing are on live, they aren't. Chloros are completely competitive for about every situation. This is not the case at all for tanksOriginally Posted by nocks
I never said its OK for clerics to be the clear best healer, and the way thing are on live, they aren't. Chloros are completely competitive for about every situation. This is not the case at all for tanks
I think the difference would be a lot more clear if you were only allowed to bring one healer per raid, which is basically how tanking works.
It kinda sounded like you were saying Clerics needed to be the best healers because otherwise they wouldn't excel at anything. Actually, that's exactly what you were saying. Except, Warriors are in that exact same position with tanking.
Ok, this is one of the problems I have.
You want to remain the best healers while insisting that all other roles be balanced.
Clerics feel they should remain the best Healers because that is the only role they are best at.
Warriors feel they should remain the best tanks because that is the only role they are best at.
Yet everyone feels DPS should be balanced leaving Mages and Rogues the best at nothing.
If one role needs to be balanced then they all do.
That much I agree with. Clerics claim they want balance but that is actually the last thing they want.
If you want balance then Justicar should be a Support role, not a Tank role.That way every archetype has two of the three essential roles and the third role for any archetype would be a Support role.
THAT would be balanced.
Clerics claim that Trion defined Justicar as a Tank role so therefore it needs to be equal to all other Tank roles.
Well lets compare
In the tooltip, Trion defines Justicar as a Tank. In the tooltip, Trion defines Archon as DPS
Whether you put 1 point or 51 into Justicar it is flagged as a Tank. Whether you put 1 point or 51 into Archon it is flagged as DPS.
Justicar allows Clerics to queue as Support, Archon allows Mages to queue as Support
So why should Archon be designated as a Support role but not Justicar?
So Justicar is a Tank role. Why? Because Trion says it is.
And Archon is a Support role. Why? Because you say it is.
Clerics claim that it is Trions intent that all roles be equal.
I'm not sure that it is.
Cleric weapons proc heals, Mage weapons proc damage.
So it seems to me that their intent is that Clerics be more focused on Healing while Mages be more focused on DPS.
Except that Clerics are and always have been the best Healers in the game.
Chloros do just fine healing most encounters but Clerics are still the preferred choice for most progressive encounters.
Justicars do just fine Tanking most encounters but Warriors are still the preferred choice for most progressive encounters.
Chloros bring versatility that no Cleric Healer can bring but Mages still want the Healing versatility of Clerics to make them equal to Cleric Healers
Justicars bring versatility that no Warrior or Rogue Tank can bring but Clerics still want the Tanking versatility of Warriors to make them equal to Warrior tanks
How is a direct quote to a question misquoted and out of context?
How is "we want the various callings to be competitive with each other in their various roles" and "There isn’t a mandate that Rogues do more damage than Warriors or that Mages be the best ranged damage in the game" difficult to understand.
I mean, how else can on interpret the statement and example given
(I'm genuinely curious)
And given the changes that have been going, specifically past 1.6, where the statement "so that [x] can be more competitive" in multiple classes, how exactly does the actions thus far not reinforce the aforementioned statement?
And why do you keep saying equal when everyone else says competitive? Do you feel those two words are synonymous?
My problem with Kervik's quote is that word "Ideally." Because Elrar has also said that "Ideally Warriors would have a Support soul."
So the issue might be more like: Is the current state of Rift this ideal game that Kervik is talking about in his interview? Or are we a year from the game existing in the state Kervik described.
And the followup criticism would be: Kervik is only one dev, and as far as I know not in charge of any sort of overall class balance from a top-down perspective. So it's possible that his word is not law on this.
Last edited by nocks; 03-15-2012 at 01:32 PM.
Um last I checked 51 points in archon and Dom queues as support.
I don't what is more sad. That clerics actually feel this way or Trion bought into it.
Although you are reaching, current development shows that they are actively trying to reach their ideal statement.
So clerics will be getting a nerf to healing soon. Good. About time there self-centered logic got applied to there class. Also, I honestly think you guys are making to much from one quote. Finally, no one is going to go for it which I hope Trion is finally starting to process.
By excel, I meant that clerics are good healers. But so are chloros, and are in fact used just as often as cleric healers. Warriors don't excel at tanking, they are the clear best choice. On live, a cleric tank would not be used by a min/Max progression guild. On live, a chloro and cleric healer are both used for progression. That's all I was saying. And just as I am fine with chloros/clerics being on even ground for healing, tanks should be the same. There should be no obvious choice to someone being far superior/inferior
Please don't try to twist my words to fit your argument
No, mages are getting a buff in pvp. And will continued to be monitored so they are competitive pvp healer.
Nice try though :D
Wheels are in motion~
Nice try but I think the point of this thread is the impact to pve.No, mages are getting a buff in pvp. And will continued to be monitored so they are competitive pvp healer.
Nice try though
Wheels are in motion~
I have to agree with you, it does seem like Trion is trying to do this. They've also told us they want to give Warriors a Support soul, but that it was a long-term plan with no definite timetable.No, mages are getting a buff in pvp. And will continued to be monitored so they are competitive pvp healer.
Nice try though
Wheels are in motion~
What I'd like to do is bring Trion's attention to the fact that many Warriors will be unhappy if we go some year-long span where all Roles are balanced.... except Warriors don't have as many Roles.
I think a better approach is to inform Trion that the plan is absurd. The warrior class is nothing like it was during release. Now marginalizing the class and pretending class balance is irrelevant is just going to destroy the game. Appeasing a vocal minority will not make this a better game.
I agree. Good words of wisdom. Trion, listen to this man!
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