1.2 fails to address class balance so far

[RattyZ]

what is the definition of OP? imo OP is a class that has no counter, but pyros are glass cannons, they kill fast but die faster... that is working as intended imo

I think your definition of OP is fundamentally wrong.

If an Over-powered class, to you, has no counter, then 1 example of a counter to a class makes it no longer overpowered; and that's not ok in a game with such varying combat flexability.

I think you might find a better definition of Overpowered being a class (or soul in this case) that when compared to other souls performing the same function, it is clearly superior.

i.e. What Mage Spec should I be when PvPing at 50? If Pyro is your only answer with anything else laughably behind it, then there's an issue.

While I am tired of hearing about Pyros, I can tell you this much.

Does a Pyro have a lot of burst damage? Yes
Does a Pyro die very quickly when not in Ground of Strength? Yes
Does a Pyro have tools that other Mages must have in order to compete in PvP (other than GoS) ? No

If Ground of Strength was given to any other class, would it be OP? Yes

though my synopsis is woefully without numbers or detailed comparisons, it's clear what the culprit is in this instance.

There are a lot more problems in PvP than mage burst, that's just a symptom in the grandiose flu that's PvP.

[Notwist]

Gotta love Pyro's desperately trying to justify 1-2 shotting the rest sitting in their GoS - immune to CC - Damage mitigation - Passive Stun chance...

They were supposed to hardest classes to play. You need to Kite, you need to CC/CC break at the right moment, you are squishy... In return you have high Damage. Thats where " Glass Cannon " term came up.

GoS made them uber lame, their biggest weaknesses are removed but they kept their uber damage . They became magical steel cannons.

Even a ****** can play Pyro now and will kill more efficiently then any other class.

Yet we see pathetic attempts to defend this OP class. Pyros turned all noobs into Pro killing machines. It's hard to not defend them, amirite??

[VehementiNacon]

Can those calling mages OP please for the love of mana post the builds? Then post what build YOU are in?
Just saying X kicked my *** and now I'm all but hurt doesn't help anyone and sure as hell doesn't progress the game.

Honestly post the damn builds and what spells are killing you.

Edit... You know you can be knocked out of those circles and they can be purified...I eat them for mana alll the time..... just sayin..

[Puremallace]

Can those calling mages OP please for the love of mana post the builds? Then post what build YOU are in?
Just saying X kicked my *** and now I'm all but hurt doesn't help anyone and sure as hell doesn't progress the game.

Honestly post the damn builds and what spells are killing you.

Mages = whole bunch of points into the two button wonder class called pyros

Warrior - as much valor and skills I can get that say mitigate sp and it DOES NOTHING. Instead of taking 5-6k hits I take 2-4k hits. The class is OP!

[VehementiNacon]

Mages = whole bunch of points into the two button wonder class called pyros

Warrior - as much valor and skills I can get that say mitigate sp and it DOES NOTHING. Instead of taking 5-6k hits I take 2-4k hits. The class is OP!

Cool story bro BUT...
2 buttons that's not a build nice try goon squadian troll.

Like I said full builds of both go use Zam.

[Sneezer]

Fulminate 6635. Highest i've been hit with today. However being one shot by a pyro is so commonplace now no-one even blinks anymore.

1.2 will be pyros v clerics.

I like getting hit with 5k fulminates about as much as mages like getting 3 shotted while stunned by a stealthed rogue.

See what I did thar?

[VehementiNacon]

I like getting hit with 5k fulminates about as much as mages like getting 3 shotted while stunned by a stealthed rogue.

See what I did thar?

Yep except sometimes It happens in a wonderful blink of an eye.

Glad to see you notice this comes down to rock vs paper vs scissors vs Spock in the end.

[Niven]

You forgot to add 'pvp' to your thread title.

[Sneezer]

Yep except sometimes It happens in a wonderful blink of an eye.

Glad to see you notice this comes down to rock vs paper vs scissors vs Spock in the end.

You just gave me a great idea for perfect PvP balance.

Here's how it works.

When everyone enters a PvP match they are either turned into a squirrel (Guardian) or a bunny (Defiant).

Squirrels and Bunnies get 2 attacks.

• Bite - Melee Physical Attack; does 3-5 damage to target.
• Nuts (for squirrels) and Carrots (for bunnies) - Self-heal; heals for 1-2 points

See. Perfect balance. No more having to think about the other group's makeup or trying to work on strategy...or any of that silly thinking stuff (that makes pvp fun). The key to winning would simply be to zerg the other group while spamming Bite and Nuts/Carrots faster than them.

The only issue here I see is that the Bunnies might QQ because the Squirrel's Nut ability is obviously overpowered.

[Datku]

T I know sabs got screwed as well, but I don't know the rogue class enough to know if alot of souls were nerfed for Rogues in 1.1.

Sabs are actually doing ok. Sure they no longer crit for 6k dmg and for those that are challenged mathematically and can not add up the separate dmg totals per detonations the lack of 4 digit on screen totals makes them think they have been nerfed into uselessness. They can still parse well and still effective enough in PvP/PvE for those that have stuck with the class. The decline of sabs everywhere is the product of so many people that went FOTM when sabs where OP. Now they are trying other rogue builds that just don't have that OP dmg that sabs used to have and so rogues in general are gimp. There are some builds out there that are doing pretty good even now. Rogues can still be among the top dps in instances and raids (Greenscale and River of Souls).

Even my "gimped" assassin build on my rogue to me always did ok. Sure its not one that you use to run into a group of mobs/players and just lay waste to everyone. Its more target selection and opportunity which is the way I envisioned an assassin would play. I have been pretty successful in PvP with the current "gimp" assassin and looking forward to easy mode with the upcoming boosts. My only fear is that sins are the next FOTM rogue soul and so many no talent build chasers are going to flood to the soul and give it a bad rep.

[Xavier1]

Gotta love Pyro's desperately trying to justify 1-2 shotting the rest sitting in their GoS - immune to CC - Damage mitigation - Passive Stun chance...

They were supposed to hardest classes to play. You need to Kite, you need to CC/CC break at the right moment, you are squishy... In return you have high Damage. Thats where " Glass Cannon " term came up.

GoS made them uber lame, their biggest weaknesses are removed but they kept their uber damage . They became magical steel cannons.

Even a ****** can play Pyro now and will kill more efficiently then any other class.

Yet we see pathetic attempts to defend this OP class. Pyros turned all noobs into Pro killing machines. It's hard to not defend them, amirite??

Pyros are not the only calling or class that can 1-2shot people, just a little FYI

[VehementiNacon]

You just gave me a great idea for perfect PvP balance.

Here's how it works.

When everyone enters a PvP match they are either turned into a squirrel (Guardian) or a bunny (Defiant).

Squirrels and Bunnies get 2 attacks.

• Bite - Melee Physical Attack; does 3-5 damage to target.
• Nuts (for squirrels) and Carrots (for bunnies) - Self-heal; heals for 1-2 points

See. Perfect balance. No more having to think about the other group's makeup or trying to work on strategy...or any of that silly thinking stuff (that makes pvp fun). The key to winning would simply be to zerg the other group while spamming Bite and Nuts/Carrots faster than them.

The only issue here I see is that the Bunnies might QQ because the Squirrel's Nut ability is obviously overpowered.

Rift monster Play ! Somethin Turbine got right (as far as gameplay mechanics). If you want PvP separate it completely from PvE. (or as far as you can anyway)

[Original_Hellfire]

Rift monster Play ! Somethin Turbine got right (as far as gameplay mechanics). If you want PvP separate it completely from PvE. (or as far as you can anyway)

Lotro had the worst pvp system anywhere, nerfing creeps constantly because pver's complained

[Celestian]

I'm sick of getting stunned and CCed by Rogues who are better than me at PvP. Please nerf all rogu.....

Oh wait. Wrong thread. Sorry.

Let me try this again.

I'm sick of getting nuked by pyros in PvP because rather than using my brain to gain an advantage on them, I just stand there attacking the plate wearer that charged me while I let the pyro nuke the crap out of me.

There. I think I got the hang of this.

Do you really think attacking a pyro from stealth will make one bit of difference? If you do then you don't play a rogue.

[Original_Hellfire]

Do you really think attacking a pyro from stealth will make one bit of difference? If you do then you don't play a rogue.

This, try ganking them on a pedastal and see them go down 5% health while they 3 shot you.