Valor Updates and Vengeance Arrive Tomorrow, 9/1

[Brikhouse]

Please read the following thoroughly, afterwards we invite you to share your feedback and questions below - thanks in advance for staying constructive!

Hi all,

As we outlined yesterday, we’re making some changes to Valor and adding a new PvP Stat called “Vengeance”.

After reviewing the feedback and data we received from our test this afternoon we will be moving forward with releasing these changes tomorrow, 9/1, for evaluation in front of the full live audience. You can be sure we’re going to be keeping a very close eye on how they play and want to go a little deeper into our methods below.

As many of you have expressed through today’s testing, these changes do create a better PvP experience for everyone. Specifically:

• PvP Healing did not become a huge issue as many had feared, with more people having more valor.
• The non-armor-set valor pieces PvPers can stack on top of their PvP armor sets continue to provide good defensive value
• High rank PvP items remain a great upgrade for PvP, still do provide useful advantages in PvE, and are just no longer the best items available for raiding.
• Vengeance is proving to be a good and useful way to give added offensive power in PvP

We want to illustrate where we plan to go from here. As always we work to iterate and make the right decisions without being afraid to try new things. With this in mind, our strategy for PvP has been the following:

1. Get Valor and Rank 8 gear in line to provide a better overall experience for everyone in PvP. (This is where we are with these changes)
2. Bring rogues to a place to where they have a competitive PvP DPS role that does not revolve around slipping away, as a part of a larger rogue effectiveness review coming in 1.5.
3. Then evaluate how PvP healing is in this new world, a world where rogue DPS is competitive with warriors, clerics, and mages in PvP.

During this process we’re also keeping a close eye on PvE item effectiveness in PvP, each step of the way, we just want to make sure we’re not turning too many knobs at once.

While we’re talking about itemization, we’re happy to confirm that Pre-Hammerknell PvE Synergy Crystals should make their debut in Update 1.5 – more details to come as we get closer to that update.

Thanks for sharing your feedback over the past 24 hours and even before we announced these changes. Always know your opinions and feedback are a part of our development process and the direction we ultimately choose.

These changes to PvP are not set in stone – as we’ve demonstrated in the past, we feel it’s important to explore new opportunities with a measured approach and that’s exactly what we’re doing today. We’re always open to your feedback and ask you continue to share your thoughts on these changes, especially after you have the opportunity to experience them yourself.

Thanks!

You just lost my 2 accounts as well as several others.

if you reverse this decision, I may reverse mine

[AsphyxZero]

Making a %30 reduction as a 4 piece bonus makes the most sense.

As having it as a stat no longer makes any sense at all, and isn't logical - when everyone has it.

Also, it would make more sense to have pvp gear with %30 more health - If valor effectively doesn't exist anymore, and there is no difference between someone playing 1 night and someone playing 6 months for damage intake in pvp...

Might as well make it wow level 60 pvp ala no resilience, if valor is static...

http://forums.riftgame.com/official-...ml#post3056464

http://forums.riftgame.com/official-...ml#post3056464

http://forums.riftgame.com/official-...ml#post3056464

http://forums.riftgame.com/official-...ml#post3056464

http://forums.riftgame.com/official-...ml#post3056464


Do people really not read the forums?

[Raen Ryong]

You just lost my 2 accounts as well as several others.

if you reverse this decision, I may reverse mine

If you don't want a more balanced and skilful PvP system, then you are a necessary sacrifice.

[RagnorIronclad]

As a mage, I don't think it's fair that because Warriors have plate armour they get much better DR against physical attacks. Please normalise armour across classes and give everyone the same armour value as Plate to make it fair like you've done with Valor.

[Raen Ryong]

Normalising classes is not the same as normalising gear, sorry

[Romules]

[Saeliss]

Normalising classes is not the same as normalising gear, sorry

Yeah you're right. Once they're done normalizing gear all we'll be left with is a horrible imbalanced class / soul system. Wonder what minority group they'll screw over to fix that design flaw? It really isn't fair until they normalize classes. Best bet is to cut your losses and cancel your subscription now.

[Raen Ryong]

really smart guy

And the above is what needs to be purged. This kind of player - eliminate them.

[Raen Ryong]

Yeah you're right. Once they're done normalizing gear all we'll be left with is a horrible imbalanced class / soul system. Wonder what minority group they'll screw over to fix that design flaw? It really isn't fair until they normalize classes. Best bet is to cut your losses and cancel your subscription now.

A system which is MUCH easier to fix when you've eliminated one of the major issues causing imbalance.

[Boobah]

NGL, I was pretty pissed off when I heard about these changes because I was hoping to have one (upgraded) set of purples last me through pvp and t1/2. I'm a pretty casual player, not planning on raiding, just enjoy pvping and running some dungeons once in a while. I feel that people should be able to level up however way they want, whether it's pvp or pve, and then ALL players should have equal opportunity to experience endgame content (whether they take advantage of it or not).

But I'm glad to find pvp gear is still viable in pve. Not the best, but good enough not to slow down a group. That's all I need, I don't want to be chained to a game that constantly forces you to keep grinding and farming and playing to have the "best" gear just to be able to set foot in certain endgame content without getting toasted.

Not sure how I feel about the rogue changes though. Doubtful.

[Licentia]

Just my thoughts on the issue...

First, I think that at least on paper it looks like a good change. I didn't test anything on the PTS. There's no room on my SSD for another Rift client D:

Having said that, I see a lot of rage around the valor changes, but I'm of the point of view now where I feel we would have a better community and a better game overall if these people would just leave anyway. I don't speak for the devs and I'm sure they would tell me that they don't necessarily share my point of view, but sometimes I think people go into PvP for the wrong reasons, or they get all worked up over things they don't fully understand.

Some examples:

"I spend <x> hours grinding my PvP gear so I could have an advantage and now you nerf it." Rank 6-8 still have a dramatic advantage over rank 1-4. Defense isn't the only thing that comprises an advantage in PvP.

Here's an idea: instead of grinding for hours for gear, you play the game because you enjoy it? If you need a massive advantage over other players in a PvP environment to enjoy it, maybe PvP isn't for you.

"My high rank PvP trinkets with vengeance won't be as effective in open world PvP as PvE gear so what's the point of having PvP gear if I have to wear PvE gear to grind and do dailies?"

Just a thought...rank 5+ PvP gear, even with vengeance, is still going to give as much (if not more) offensive power in world PvE activities than t2 dungeon gear. If you need more than t2 dungeon gear to get through your dailies and major rifts and zone events...well. Let's just say I don't support favoring the lowest common denominator when it comes to the skill base of things.

The changes to valor and vengeance are just numbers. They're numbers that take steps to resolving the gear gap that exists on live shards now, and rightly so. It doesn't remove the competitive advantage granted by higher ranked gear. It reduces it slightly, but the advantage is still present and it's still substantial. They're numbers that help address the concern amongst the raiding community that they had to PvP for BiS PvE gear. And rightly so. It's good to have the option to overlap a bit, but when it becomes the perception that it's necessary to cross-gear to be competitive in a raiding environment, things could stand some adjustment.

The tragedy I see right now is that the PvP forums here aren't used to discuss PvP strategies, compositions, or anything of the sort. They're a wall of QQ driven by malformed opinions and even the legitimate concerns are hard to find through all the rage and sniveling.

I would suspect half (or more) of the people raging about the valor change haven't even thought it through. They're just responding in a knee-jerk fashion and puking their angst all over the devs because that's what they're used to doing. So keep doing it. Just please, for the love of Pete, do it elsewhere unless/until you learn to think for yourself and form a valid opinion.

[oogy]

Lol looking at all these threads... I am amazed.. that not only has trion manged to polarize PvP and PvE just that little more in a bad way... but also the community... Good Job

Atm the forums are definitely more interesting then the game I am having trouble logging on to and staying logged into... Now whos turn to make popcorn?

[Forsake]

147 pages of peoples feedback like you asked for 89% or higher of them saying its a horrible idea.. You close the thread and say **** you were doing it anyway.

Awsome why even post updates and pre release info and ask for feeback if you really could give a **** less.

You reciended your claims about pvp gear. about the usefullness of pvp for pve'ers so we all should be able to reciend our purchases.

Your fixing rogues.. awsome when a rogue can do a 6k+ final blow already.. but fair enough give them some more..

When your doing nothing about mages that are unkillable in 1 v 1 settings. or clerics that lolwaterjet you while 5 people attempt to kill them.

Just tell the community to f-off you had the code written your using it reguardless of how your community feels.

[InferiOmega]

So, what about those of us on a pvp server where you have to do pve content in the world in pvp gear or be killed? The nerf of pvp in pve now makes it easier for this to happen, because now we have to either spend more time killing the mob/s, or wear pve gear.

Only Rift Raids and Expert Raids actually require real dungeon/raid gear, IMO. Farming mobs for dailies and the like is doable in blues, let alone p2+ sets of pvp gear.

[RagnorIronclad]

Normalising classes is not the same as normalising gear, sorry

That is normalising gear. Cloth, Leather and Chain Gear vs Plate Gear.