New way of submitting feedback in regards to your GM Experience

[the_real_seebs]

And what difference would it make? For all intents and purposes, it's been acknowledged that there's no difference between an "RP" server and a standard one, aside from the label (which is now rendered inert and superfluous by the policy change anyway.)

Actually, no. The previous policy was not specific to RP servers. It was there on all servers.

And I think the real problem is:

That policy is, in fact, a bad policy for non-RP servers, because a lot of people playing MMOs don't care about immersion and don't expect any. But the solution was not "this policy should not exist". It was "this policy should be specific to RP servers". Because on RP servers, it serves a big point and is a big deal to many people.

I guess...

Here's the thing. If they'd actively enforced the naming rules, I don't think anyone would have quit over it. People don't pick funny names because they're deeply attached to their character concept which only works if you allow the funny name. (Well, not in a fantasy MMO. Obviously they do in City of Heroes.) But if they take that policy away, of course people will quit over it, because without that policy, RP servers are pretty much useless. They're not offering you a reasonable expectation that the game world will not be full of lolcats and 4chan memes.

[Cathca]

It's not an awful analogy, and several of the RPers I know at least were at some point smokers.

And there is something he's gotten at which is important: It sorta sucks for a lot of people if RP servers absolutely mandate active RP. There are people who don't really RP but who want to play with a friend who does, and it makes sense to let those people be on RP servers.

I just think that this policy change doesn't acknowledge the degree to which a sufficiently genre-breaking name wrecks the fun of RP. I stand by the clown in the war movie analogy. It doesn't matter that the clown isn't actively interacting with the environment; it's just that seeing him there reminds you very directly that this is a purely fictional movie and that none of the things you're seeing are happening or real to any of the participants.

Nobody was asking for RP servers to mandate RP. It's an extreme example. Most people just wanted a sign that Trion gave a crap about roleplayers.

Instead, catering to them was compared to catering to smokers. People who're free to do what they do, but who're widely viewed negatively and considered disruptive to those around them.

The analogy was fine. The object of comparison should be a textbook of example of what not to use if you're speaking on behalf of a company. I understand what he meant, but it shows a stunning lack of awareness of what is an appropriate analogy and what is not.

[Misun]

How disappointing.

I was under the impression that this game was marketed as an mmoRPg.

Mark my words...you're going to lose customers over this and the serious lack of enforcing any of the rules that are in place.

You seem to have forgotten the THOUSANDS of roleplayers who have been here since the start, since beta and before.

This makes me very disappointed and I can no longer recommend this game to anyone.

As a side note-

My husband is already quitting the game because he has been charged on his credit card a subscription fee, but cannot play due to the billing issue that seemingly still isn't fixed.

[Kirstaad]

And what difference would it make? For all intents and purposes, it's been acknowledged that there's no difference between an "RP" server and a standard one, aside from the label (which is now rendered inert and superfluous by the policy change anyway.)

The point that I was trying to make is that there is a designation in place for the time being, and the fact that it exists makes any attempt on our, the players, part to try and advocate a change much more effective. There’s a boundary there that’s been put in place by Trion. The problem that we’ve stumbled upon is that the players and the GM’s (the company) disagree on what that barrier should be.

If the RP Shards were to be abolished entirely, there’d be nothing to fight for. The battle would be done, and no borders would remain between the immersion and maturity that people expect from roleplay servers, and the silliness that is permitted and encouraged on other servers. So, my call to action is this:

Those of you who feel strongly about this issue, don’t cry “I’M QUITTING.” Instead, call for change - for the enforcement of the policy that we all believed to have been in existence since the start. I appreciate the notion that some of our enjoyment as roleplayers comes from being able to “fall into” the fantasy world in front of us, but don’t fall into the trap of running off at the first mention of trouble.

If you’ve enjoyed the game, then fight for it. At least until the end of your current subscription. Otherwise, it’s all just wasted time and wasted money. For Trion and for you.

[the_real_seebs]

I'll probably continue playing regardless -- I guess it depends how bad the name thing gets to be. Thus far, it hasn't been awful, although it's been mildly discouraging. It isn't really conducive to trying to stay in character, and without staying in character, I don't actually see any point to MMOs. I don't care about gear grinds, I don't PvP... I like the roleplaying and exploration. (Because, well, I tend to RP explorers. I'm lazy like that.)

[Kirstaad]

I'll probably continue playing regardless -- I guess it depends how bad the name thing gets to be. Thus far, it hasn't been awful, although it's been mildly discouraging. It isn't really conducive to trying to stay in character, and without staying in character, I don't actually see any point to MMOs. I don't care about gear grinds, I don't PvP... I like the roleplaying and exploration. (Because, well, I tend to RP explorers. I'm lazy like that.)

The names themselves don’t concern me so much, and I agree that it hasn’t been that bad (in my experience). As I see it, the issue is that this announcement opens the floodgates to all the griefers who have, until this point, been restricted - by law, if not by enforcement. And the word of law alone and the knowledge that undertaking a particular action is “wrong” is enough to change the behavior of some people.

One thing’s for certain, though: this announcement will only make things worse.

[Tachi]

Trion, show you do appreciate your RP community:

- Keep the current naming policy and apply it to RP type servers only.

- Remove the sections from the current policy for all other servers.

Your other players can keep their silly names, and RP servers can develop a level of immersion that encourages RP without those names.

[Misun]

The names themselves don’t concern me so much, and I agree that it hasn’t been that bad (in my experience). As I see it, the issue is that this announcement opens the floodgates to all the griefers who have, until this point, been restricted - by law, if not by enforcement. And the word of law alone and the knowledge that undertaking a particular action is “wrong” is enough to change the behavior of some people.

One thing’s for certain, though: this announcement will only make things worse.

This is a perfect example of the 'Broken Window Theory'-

Consider a building with a few broken windows. If the windows are not repaired, the tendency is for vandals to break a few more windows. Eventually, they may even break into the building, and if it's unoccupied, perhaps become squatters or light fires inside.

Or consider a sidewalk. Some litter accumulates. Soon, more litter accumulates. Eventually, people even start leaving bags of trash from take-out restaurants there or breaking into cars.

-----

This is already happening now..the naming policy changes are only going to exacerbate the problem.

[the_real_seebs]

Yeah. Things like harassment policies, or restrictions on racial slurs, have a lot of those traits:

• If you don't enforce them, they get rapidly much worse.
• If you do enforce them, the amount of enforcement needed declines.
• Enforcing, or not enforcing, other rules also affects the amount of enforcement needed.

The obvious thing here is that, now that Trion has effectively stated that RP is a disruption of other people's space, the people who usually roll on RP servers just to make fun of the "nerds" will feel that they have been clearly endorsed by the GM team, so we'll see a lot more other behaviors intended to disrupt RPers. Why not? All they have to do is be actively disruptive for a while, and if the GMs haven't already been taking action, any future complaints will be resolved by removing the rule they had been violating from the ToS.

[Vespera]

Hi folks,

This discussion has gotten pretty off-track, so we're going to ask that if you'd like to discuss specific policies that you create a new discussion thread to do so, please. We do want to allow you to share your thoughts and concerns with us, but this thread was not intended to be for policy discussion. The primary purpose of this thread is to let everyone know about the new GM Feedback email. The policies that were detailed in the first post were simply intended to clarify what the GM Team handles and what they do not.

All of our policies have always been public. If you wish to discuss the RP shard naming policy or any other of our in-game policies, please create a new discussion thread to do so, and let's get this discussion back on track.

Thank you all!

[the_real_seebs]

As you wish.

[Vespera]

As you wish.

Thank you!

[Rajani Isa]

In the retail world, what you've just described is called bait and switch and is illegal. You had stated policies and you apparently had in-house policies which weren't the same. Instead of enforcing the stated policies which people replied upon when making a decision about whether to subscribe to this game, you have instead decided to change the stated policies. Like I said, bait and switch. That is, quite simply, extremely poor customer service.

While it is bad customer service, it's not a bait-and-switch, much less of the illegal variety.

EDIT: To add
So rather than haul the people over the coals who have failed to enforce Trion's policy you just scrap it! Awesome....I'm speechless!

The issue isn't that policy wasn't being enforced so much as there were two separate version.

"LADIES AND GENTLEMEN OF THE JURY, I DEMAND THAT TRION WORLDS REVOKE FREEDOM OF SPEECH FOR OTHER SUBSCRIBERS SO THAT I CAN CONVERSE WITH FELLOW FAIRIES AND DWARVES WITHOUT THE INFLUENCE OF THOSE WHO CAN DIFFERENTIATE FANTASY WORLDS FROM REAL LIFE."

...see how that goes. I usually just blindly click the 'accept' button, but I can almost guarantee you that there's something in the Terms of Service along the lines of 'Trion can change the rules at any point and is not responsible if you're pissed about it'


also, caps lock makes my point more valid, you see?

There is no freedom of speech in an MMO or privately-owned forum (in other words, any forum not held by the government)

[Rajani Isa]

All of our policies have always been public. If you wish to discuss the RP shard naming policy or any other of our in-game policies, please create a new discussion thread to do so, and let's get this discussion back on track.

Thank you all!

The reason you had such heated discussion here is because, apparently, the publicly available versions of the policies have not been up to date since launch day - this means all of your policies have not been public. Which has given you the CS version of DCU's Day 0 patch - a patch which from all the vitriol it spawned changed the play of the game drastically.

I love the game, and hope this is the last time something like this happens. (Non-Punishment) Policies should always be public (and a rough outline of the punishment ones too, but not too much - those need to be able to be changed to fit the circumstances without you folks be raked over the coals.)

[the_real_seebs]

Yeah. From a customer service perspective...

I may hate this policy[*], but I'd much rather have it be openly stated that this is the policy than have a policy which is apparently being ignored for no obvious reason.
[*] And I do. The more I think about it the more I think this has the potential very easily to be gamebreaking. I play MMORPGs for a reason...