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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: PTS Update - 11/15/19 - Mage and Inquisitor Adjustments

  1. #91
    Rift Master Shas's Avatar
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    Without Serpent Thooth(-6%) and with shroud of Agony(+1.5%) , Inq is above Hopo atm ;P


    Set up a spiffy and saw this:


    The rogue specific cape misses some CP :P




    Ceterum censo clericos hydolum esse daturum.
    Last edited by Shas; 11-29-2019 at 09:34 AM.

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  2. #92
    Prophet of Telara
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    The damage of Flame Volley (the normal version) and Fulminate should be increased significantly. At the moment fireball spamming in combination with the eternal weapon and legendary elemental forces is so efficient than using other abilities like Flame Volley, Fulminate or Flame Bolt makes no noticeable difference, which certainly wasn't intended. In former times the CD's had a clear influence on the DPS of a pyro. Currently the Pyro does more sustained damage than being a burst class as he was originally designed.

  3. #93
    Rift Master Shas's Avatar
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    So this mediocre breakdown gives us a Inquisitor priority list.



    Ability Priority based on dmg/ gcd. (total dmg/ total swings x swings per gcd)
    Example: Seal of Pain 1853000m dmg in 302 swings and 16 swings / gcd = 981.721,85dmg per use. Since SH and Sop go together, i combined them into 8 sinwgs/ min.

    Damage per gcd used:

    Inscribe Fate 4.634.000‬
    (Coal NR 4.470.666,66)
    (Coal AI+SoC 3.301.730,76‬)
    SH+SoP 2.581.236,84
    Scourge 1.881.111,11
    Normal AI+SoC 1.650.865,38
    PS 1.490.800
    BoR+BoJ 1.171.046,5‬
    EoL+Surge 1.082.345,45
    BoD+SoC 1.050.660

    So jeah sorry, Ps is viable. Best you use it every 19 seconds. (Or with every Inscribe Fate)
    EoL ticks at an average of 16 times in 20 secs, AI andf NR will generate gaps.
    This leaves EoL only underperformed by an average BoD

    As predicted, BoR and BoJ > BoD. Spam down as many BoR in a row as you can with Fanaticism.

    This also leaves to the theoretical bis opener:

    FS - SH - SoP - Scourge - PS - Fate - Fana+AI - Coal+ (BoD*)NR - AI - (BoD*)- EoL - SH - SoP - Scourge etcpp

    *When omnox proccs at SH, BoD at 1st, when on FS, on 2nd position.

    //This opener got approved and peaks at 2.6 (!)m
    Thanks to Dbatzz and Wynford for taking the time.
    It has the goal to maximise the Omnox usage aswell as it's later sync and ontop allow for some *special treatment*
    A little fine tuning on the priority list of the lasting rotation is still left.

    I am convinced that Clerics should be granted a totem.
    Last edited by Shas; 11-30-2019 at 06:03 PM.

    Hierosolyma | Katane | Azuren | Jeru | Syenn | Shas | Shaslol | Shastroll

  4. #94
    Rift Master Shas's Avatar
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    MAGE

    Here is another endless list of potential mage adaptations.
    Pyro has to change alot. Without LEF and Lock, it's own dmg is almost half of the total dmg done atm.
    Those are quite drastic change offers but it will attack the dominant offsoul meta in an elegant way while keep rewarding core mechanics of Mage (Charge management and intelligent plays)

    Problem: Pyro and Harbinger are slaves of theyr bis offsouls which take more attention than the mainspec mechanics.

    Pyro

    - Legendary Interalize Charge: remove the 'no charge costs' effect. It now passively removes the cooldown of Fulminate.

    - Fulminate: Causes your next x Fireballs to cast double.
    (Affects Fussilliate fb)

    - Legendary Flame Bolt consumes all charge, Vapor trail increasing fire damage(0.5%/charge) and all other dmg (0.1%/charge) based on charge consumed. Lasts 15 sec.

    - Cinder Burst has no cooldown after being used as a procc (that's a nerf not a buff)

    Harbinger

    - Leaf of the Wind gives +10 maximum charge for 5 points.(instead of 5% dodge)

    - Light Nova: Lucient Slash and Piercing Beam refresh all active Life damage effects on the target.

    - Normal Piercing Beam increases Life dmg taken in addition to slashes

    Warlock

    - Legendary Neddras Touch has the bonus halved on non- death abilities

    - Death's Door has no target hp restriction. Duration increased to 10 sec. below 50% hp it deals 20% more dmg.

    - Neddras Essence allows casts and channel to continue while moving for the 7sec duration.

    - Neddras Torture costs somewhat 40 Charge and explodes for every stack active.

    Cloromancer

    - Withering Vine counts as life and death Ability

    - Legendary Bloom now costs 30- 40 Charge. In addition to the Healing, it buffs the mage to cause the next 5 attacks to cast a Vile Spores on the target
    The Vile Spores by Bloom are Primary Bolts when Bloom consumed a eternal stack.

    - Legendary Radiant Spores has the threat removed and damage doubled.

    Necromancer

    - Legendary Plague Bolt has it's dmg increased by 50% for each stack of Plague Carrier

    Clerics

    - Now recieve a eternal Totem when the eternal questline is finished successfully

    All classes:

    - All Rift healing specs now provide +1% damage done per point spent. Tank specs lose any damage bonus per point spent. This opens up the options with low point healing offsouls and nerf tank-dps carries throughout all levels. Also it forces tanks to use more aggro-specific abilities.

    All change recomendations are thought through and are based on already existing mechanics.

    Let me know what you think! Whoever plays for a while should aggre with this
    Last edited by Shas; 12-02-2019 at 10:21 AM.

    Hierosolyma | Katane | Azuren | Jeru | Syenn | Shas | Shaslol | Shastroll

  5. #95
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    - Legendary Interalize: remove 'no charge costs'. Passively removes the cooldown of Fulminate.
    no , cd of 5-7 sec is more than enough.

    - Fulminate: Causes your next x Fireballs to cast double.
    (Affects Fussilliate fb)
    no again.

    - leg Flame Bolt consumes all charge, Vapor trail increasing fire damage(1%/charge) and all other dmg (0.1%/charge) based on charge consumed for 15 or so sec.
    100% damage ? way too strong look at prima 100% for 1 spell. (rage of the beast) , it's BIS every where you just move the issue somewhere else for pyro. + for 0 point legendary will give too much power to archon which suppose to be a support.

    - Neddras Essence allows moving casts and channel while active
    no , don't want an easy domi gameplay , either you do damage and stand still , either you move and do less. Warlock only have 1 channel , don't use it to buff an off soul channel like mana wrench.

    - Legendary Bloom casts it's Vile Spores on targets affected by Radiant Spores
    or: buffs the mage to cause the next 5 attacks to cast a Vile Spores (Harbchloro!)
    The Vile Spores by Bloom are Primary Bolts with charge and all.
    Auto cast spell isn't the way to go , make thing too easy that's boring.
    Procced things shouldn't give charge or count as primary that's dumb and promote easy charge gain where you don't want it, chloro and harb don't need that amount of charge in 1 spell.

    Most of these are good enough , but you ask for some broken things that will just bring more broken things on some specs. We want balance , not another round of dumb specs.

    We need easy to make changes , not changing the core of some spells.
    Last edited by Hokhmah; 11-30-2019 at 07:47 AM.
    Hokhmah@Brutwacht , Zyggiha@Brutwacht, Ahiggyz@Brutwacht
    Pseudo support, Prima raiding specs
    Discord : Zyggiha#2277 , I can help for everything related to primalist , feel free to ask.

  6. #96
    Rift Master Shas's Avatar
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    Hardly possible to strip Pyro from the 50% impact, ele lock has on it.

    Spoiler!


    Quote Originally Posted by Hokhmah View Post
    We need easy to make changes , not changing the core of some spells.
    Yes yes. So much time available to bring it all back on track but you're right.

    - Prancing will most likely shut down.
    Last edited by Shas; 12-02-2019 at 10:22 AM.

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  7. #97
    Shield of Telara Dizbo's Avatar
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    Default re: Inquisitor

    Quote Originally Posted by Shas View Post

    So this absolutely medicore breakdown gives us a Inquisitor priority list.[/LIST]
    Damage per gcd used:
    1. Inscribe Fate 4.634.000‬
    2. (Coal NR 4.470.666,66)
    3. (Coal AI+SoC 3.301.730,76‬
    4. SH+SoP 2.581.236,84
    5. Scourge 1.881.111,11
    6. Normal AI+SoC 1.650.865,38
    7. PS 1.490.800
    8. BoR+BoJ 1.171.046,5‬
    9. EoL+Surge 1.082.345,45
    10. BoD+SoC 1.050.660
    re: Nos. 2 & 3: Interesting that the cooldown (Coal/Radical Coalescence) had a greater impact on Nysyr's Rebuke than Aggressive Inquisition.

    Level 65 Mastery and Druid
    1. So jeah sorry, Ps is viable. Best you use it every 19 seconds. (Or with every Inscribe Fate)
    2. EoL ticks at an average of 16 times in 20 secs, AI andf NR will generate gaps.
    3. This leaves EoL only underperformed by an average BoD.
    *Rotation*

    As predicted, BoR and BoJ > BoD. Spam down as many BoR in a row as you can with Fanaticism.
    I do this too because applying dots during fanaticism > zealotry stacks - some dots always eat a stack of Zealotry. (Hope I have this correct).
    Opener
    This also leaves to the theoretical bis opener:
    FS - SH - SoP - Scourge - PS - Fate - Fana+AI - Coal [CD]+ (BoD*)NR - AI - (BoD*)- EoL - SH - SoP - Scourge etcpp
    *When omnox proccs at SH, BoD at 1st, when on FS, on 2nd position.
    Opener
    Fervent Strike- first skill. I am stuck on this. Either run top speed (no gap closer) to get <3m (under the bosses' butt) or big sacrifice:
    Spoiler!

    Question 1: Are there other classes that must play yo-yo to get a damage buff?
    Question 2:
    Curious how clerics manage to keep dots from falling off during the Radical Coalescence cooldown (in the scenario you suggested in your opener). I've been wrestling with this - even if it may be situational.

    In general, are you:
    1. thinking of an "option b" to use some filler bolts then (manually) reapplying __ # of dots before the CD, like in the old days, which would unfortunately delay using the CD and continue to desync?
      or
    2. not concerned if they fall off.
    3. you are faster than a speeding bullet applying dots.
    Opener Continued
    • //This opener got approved and peaks at 2.6 (!)m
    • Thanks to Dbatzz and Wynford for taking the time.
    • It has the goal to maximise the Omnox usage aswell as it's later sync and ontop allow for some *special treatment*
    • A little fine tuning on the priority list of the lasting rotation is still left.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shas View Post
    <snip>Mage<snip> [no offense!]
    All classes:
    1. All Rift healing specs now provide +1% damage done per point spent.
    2. Tank specs lose any damage bonus per point spent.
    3. This opens up the options with low point healing offsouls and nerf tank-dps carries throughout all levels.
    4. Also it forces tanks to use more aggro-specific abilities.
    All change recommendations are thought through and are based on already existing mechanics.
    Let me know what you think!
    No. 1 above is brilliant. I am not aware of any cleric healing soul doing any significant damage.
    I have happily experimented with killing the Druid Offsoul in Inquisitor in favor of
    Spoiler!


    due to
    1) running in and out to smash boss face with Fervent Strike and possibly punishing strike. May be fine for now, but what if there are different ranges not just stand and punch mechanics planned in the future?
    2) Less dots/debuffs. I only type 85wpm

    Whoever plays for a while should agree with this
    <modified>I am convinced that Clerics should be granted an eternal Totem upon completion of the eternal questline.
    ^1000% agree with this. I am glad I have an eternal shield and mace, but a totem would complete the set, the cleric pvp weapon set of mace+totem feels much smoother.

    Sorry Shas I reformatted you post, you had a lot to cover and it helps me focus better. Thanks for all you testing guys & girls, many enjoy and benefit from it. Sorry, I don't do numbers well, but I like pictures. Looking forward to more!
    Best,
    Dizzy
    P.S. Sorry if I made errors, a bit sleepy.
    Attached Images  
    Last edited by Dizbo; 11-30-2019 at 03:01 PM. Reason: Think I broke the server.. attachments not appearing correctly

  8. #98
    Rift Master Shas's Avatar
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    Question

    Hey Diz, thanks for taking the time!

    i'm writing alot from mobile froma train etc and usualy do color and format layout on important stuff later as edit.


    re: inquisitor
    https://prancingturtle.com/Encounter...ity&filter=allOn that old Inq parse above you see Shroud of agony doing 1.92% total.

    Surely you want to use the Fervent Strike 20 meter. Not only is it way more flexible and allows a Fs refresh during Azranel spin etc pp - but also the mastery frees up Shroud of Agony
    You may also want to unlock Shroud of agony on the Druid.
    Soul Collector is also bis on Azranel, Beligosh and Tarjula as you get cleansed quite frequently while being close.

    My pts breakdowns are done with the FS ranged mastery as it is more realistic to run that mastery by default.
    Imagine you want to refresh FS on the charging ghosts from Titanx so the bonus is up when the next group spawns. Choose between Melee range vs 20 meter.^^


    re: Nos. 2 & 3

    The latest pts change gave NR a pve-only damage bonus during Coalescence. It crits up to 7 times 2.323m and can (quite easily) be pushed to 90%-100% critrate.

    I want to re evaluate EoL with and without Fanaticism. Atm i am using it after the Coal channels and after the next normal AI + Fanaticism. -> Only being up when AI is on cooldown. (As channels don't procc Surge so well and may make it miss out on 2-3 ticks which is the difference between being viable already)

    Question 1: Are there other classes that must play yo-yo to get a damage buff?

    You mean having a strange malee- range hybrid?

    - Riftblade is a prime example. You can use it on range most of the time - but it's a massive gain to reresh Rift Strike (which is melee and increases dmg done by 25% for 20 sec)
    - Druid only has Resounding Blow and Esence Strike that are mandatory in melee Range.
    -The Pseudo sup as melee version also only has Threshers Maw (and some ogcd) being true melee
    - Paragon can be ranged half of the time but may want to come back every 5 seconds for Retaliation


    Question 2:Curious how clerics manage to keep dots from falling off during the Radical Coalescence cooldown [...]

    The abilities used in Inquisitor all follow the 15-20-30-60 sec pattern. So as long as you don't delay anything, your initial timing will carry on over many minutes.

    We start with Coalescence being used while SH ticks. This is usually what happens at the 4th and 10th minute aswell if nothing throws off the timing.


    1) running in and out to smash boss face with Fervent Strike and possibly punishing strike. May be fine for now, but what if there are different ranges not just stand and punch mechanics planned in the future?


    When there is a 35 meter boss, Destros and clerics are screwed ^^
    20m FS really is the standart.

    //
    -> Because BoR spam: BoR and BoJ benefit from the Zealotry critbonus but will only consume a stack when both crit at the same time. This makes it the 3rd most efficient Fanaticism user after Souldrain and Nysyr's Rebuke.
    In addition, your omnox will procc at 0, 90 180, 270 sec etc. It will effect every second Coal. The other half will procc at halftime, when you don't have alot ready but 6-8 stacks of Echoing Concord, Fanaticism and maybe AI. Sounds reasonable to me to not bother with manual BoD then.



    //There was a lot of text overcomplicating so i deleted everything and kept is short.
    Short like the supply of totems.
    Last edited by Shas; 11-30-2019 at 09:22 PM.

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  9. #99
    Shield of Telara Dizbo's Avatar
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    Default Thank you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shas View Post
    <snip>
    Thanks a Million for the reply. Much food for thought.

    Apologies to all for distorting the thread [to discuss things other than specific Inquisitor Adjustment suggestions].

    It's just that Shas's posts have much juicy information and I wanted to poll what clerics are thinking outside of hard numbers. I've had my input, I'll refrain from discussing theory crafting till changes go live.

    One last silly question though: Do mages have an eternal totem? Cheers.

    P.S. Hope it's the Orient Express.


    #Totemsfor2020

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dizbo View Post
    #Totemsfor2020
    Some weapons have more animation-delay than others but technically that makes very little to no difference overall for cleric specs. The reason why warriors feel such a prominent boost is because some abilities they possess are reflective and dependant on auto-attack damage and can even proc off auto attacks. Cleric doesn't really have abilities that rely on auto-attack delay and damage. The reason why totems should be wanted is just in case new abilities are built into the cleric which relies on this and of course the idea for everyone to use their cool wardrobe weapons instead of being stuck to two-hander. So mostly cosmetic purposes.

    The parses for inquisitor feel good. Although that running in and out of melee or losing a significant amount of DPS does still suck and will prevent most clerics from picking up the mastery that belongs to their inq to maximize DPS. Inquisitor is a full range spec with lots of cooldowns, channels, and cast times.. you really should consider range parse from range as well as melee. The difference between another full range soul standing in melee vs not is much less than if an inquisitor had to do it in their top DPS spec. We are talking much more full percentage points loss vs. barely any for full range specs. For example, if I stand in melee with another class range spec I may gain like .5%-2% if not then lose that 1% whereas with inquisitor you can gain that LFS and auto-attack damage or not have it up for some time which is much greater than a 1-2% loss. It is 15/30%! Inquisitor also doesn't gain much of AutoAttack Damage since a large part of the rotation is channels and cast times not instant with large amounts of Ogcd abilities like in RB.



    Quote Originally Posted by Shas View Post
    - Druid only has Resounding Blow and Esence Strike that are mandatory in melee Range.
    Nature's Edict is important to keep up.. 7% damage per stack..
    Last edited by Aedynn; 12-01-2019 at 01:02 PM.

  11. #101
    Rift Master Shas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aedynn View Post
    ...
    1H is a gain for all melee specs. It's a fact. Shaman's Deep Freeze will permanently run out before the 10th swing with a 2h, Warlord is hard to react to proccs with them comming way later on 2h. On Druid you may get your dmg ability hitting after the buff one due to delays.
    Harbinger refreshes a dot with an aoe slash which can result in losing the dot. You may lose all your Retaliation stacks from some swing animation. . the list goes on.

    Did you know Chloros heal a little better with a Wand?

    cast [notactive] Toggle Ranged Attack

    PTS worth gearing a cleric atm. qol ranged FS vs risky critbonus was an issue on a underperforming spec but it looks a little different now. (who tf would use a critpots on 4.3 Inq?)

    Quote Originally Posted by Aedynn View Post
    The parses for inquisitor feel good. Although that running in and out of melee or losing a significant amount of DPS does still suck and will prevent most clerics from picking up the mastery that belongs to their inq to maximize DPS. Inquisitor is a full range spec with lots of cooldowns, channels, and cast times.. you really should consider range parse from range as well as melee.
    Feel free to share your breakdowns; i personaly run the 20m FS by default, doing 500k-ish.
    In the end it's a mastery you can adapt for different bosses without respeccing.

    Just run ranged FS by default. It's a sacrifice which adds up stronger. When you are not using crit pots every fight you may want to reconsider risking a death by some funky melee refresh stunts. ^^

    Quote Originally Posted by Aedynn View Post
    Nature's Edict is important to keep up.. 7% damage per stack
    14%/stack with CF (which is always used together) = 70% -but true it's melee.

    The RB bonus lasts 15 sec (100% life dmg)
    The Edict bonus 30 sec (70% life dmg) - at a 16+ sec disconnect you are done anyway ^^


    I'm thinking about making a quick pts Inq/Pyro pov so Avatar has a chance to see what it actually does. :eggthink:

    //
    Quote Originally Posted by Avathar View Post
    ...
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfxA...ature=youtu.be

    #Totemsfor2020
    Last edited by Shas; 12-01-2019 at 05:46 PM.

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  12. #102
    Prophet of Telara Refuge's Avatar
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    I really don't get it why you guys still waste all this time making suggestions that are never going to happen.

    I guess you just enjoy day dreaming.

    Can someone tell me when the last balance change involved actual changes to ability function?!

    All they're clearly capable of is changing the modifier values on damage abilities. That's literally it. It's really quite blatant. It's actually painful to watch the dev updates come in amongst so many ridiculous suggestions lol.
    Last edited by Refuge; 12-03-2019 at 02:49 PM.
    Fwob - Zaviel

  13. #103
    Rift Master Shas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Refuge View Post
    It's actually painful to watch the dev updates come in amongst so many ridiculous suggestions lol.
    Didn't see you making some. Keppo
    Last edited by Shas; 12-03-2019 at 03:46 PM.

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