PTS Update - 7/22/19 - Cleric Adjustments

[Shas]

I was super surprised the OL totem even has more Wis than the eternal mace!
Absolute meta, we shouldnt have given up on cleric so early :P

Btw what's up with the 'transfer to pts' opton so we can get our hands on the 4.5 druid?
(pts T1 with 5% cp just doesnt do it)

[Qsun]

First of all, I would like to thank the Rift DEV team for taking such a crucial problem as healing in PvP into consideration. The problem exists for a quite long period of time and consists of two parts: excessive power of the Farseer and the especial weakness of other healing souls. It is good to see some steps towards solving the first part of the problem. Nevertheless, it is needed to be said that at the present statement, those changes are not going to solve the problem completely.

Please, look at the attached screen shot.



Impending Fate and Fortune Protection make up 48% and 14% respectively of the overall healing. As a result of the changes that we have on the PTS, the HPS is going to be reduced by roughly 25% (with 25% nerf to the Fortune Protection and the 44% kick for the Impending Fate, as Hokhmah has calculated).

Here is the math:

48% + 14% = 62%, before changes
48% * 0,56 + 14% * 0,75 = 37%, after changes
So, the difference is ~25%.

This leads us to the decrease of the HPS from 27k to 20k. That is not solving the problem with healing in PvP. The gap between Farseer and other healing souls is overwhelmingly huge, most of the healing specs are struggling to get to the level of somewhat 13k hps. With this being said, Farseer would still be the only option for those that choose to heal in PvP. So, the problem of variety is still here, only 1 soul to play for healers.

I want to take the liberty of saying that the solution suggested by zortnoy is actually hope giving. By simultaneously nerfing Farseer and increasing the global modifier it is possible not only to adjust the power of the Farseer but also bring other healing specs on the board.

Suggestion for the numbers: increasing the nerf from 25% to 50% for both Impending Fate and Fortune Protection and changing the global heal/absorb modifier from 0,07 to 0,092. As an outcome, Farseer is going to be nerfed by ~25% (just as we have it on PTS), but also all other healing souls are going to be buffed by ~31%.

Here is the math:

(1 * 4) * 1 = 4, it's the Impending Fate at the monent
(0,5 * 4) * 0,5 = 1 => it’s 75% kick for the Impending Fate
48% * 0,25 + 14% * 0,5 = 19% => the difference is 43%

Now let’s move to the global modifier:
57% / 0,07 = 814%, this is how much Farseer does without being affected by the global modifier
814% * 0,092 = 75%, this is the Farseer output after all the suggested changes

Other specs:
100% / 0,07 = 1428%, without modifier
1428% * 0,092 = 131%, this is the output of the other souls after all the suggested changes.

I really hope that my feedback is going to be of any use for the DEVs to help them to improve the PvP aspect of this game that I myself enjoy for at least 5 years. Have a nice day!

[allatout]

Personally the PVP in warfront should have the same modifier when open world bloodirond (with deactivation of all that is eternal of course) that it would be enough to obtain a corectte ratio in damage and heal.

A second solution is to remove the legendary ability in pvp.

[Hokhmah]

Due to the nature of some spells , a boost to modifier could end up moving the OPness from farseer to another healer. So just moving the issue without resolving it. It's another way to see the balance.
Like in PvE , where bofor is behind on dummy compare to prima but with raid modifier end up beating prima on bosses.
But i think it's better to let it go live like this , so the first nerf is here, and change again after we see how it goes. Even if it could not be enough , better having some more days with a stronger heal than nerfing/buffing too hard in one patch.

[sylaen]

What Zortnoy and Qsun have said : increasing all healing souls efficiency in pvp and at the same time nerfing prima heal so all healing souls would approximately be at the same level.

[Sarleaf]

If there are any Farseers out there who play both PvE and PvP, who care to answer honestly...

The general healing that you do in Warfronts... is it pretty much the same as it is in raids?

For example, as a cleric warden healer in TDez, I can bring the raid's health back up to full in an instant, and then keep doing this over and over again, keeping up with every AOE blow from the boss fight. This is impossible for me to do in Warfronts and those same heals are healing for only a fraction of what they would in a PvE situation. And when I see the Farseer join the team... I must admit that sometimes I do feel a little sad about the strength of my AOE heals compared to Farseer (like some little sibling that is trying desperately to keep up with the older, cooler brother).

I don't really know what the answer is for Clerics, but like someone else mentioned, I'm happy and hopeful to see that the Rift designers are currently taking a look at PvP balancing. It might sound like I was complaining just now, but I'm still finding ways to have fun in PvP. ::shrug::

[Hokhmah]

I play PvE more , but i also played PvP a lot with farseer on my prima alt.
We don't use the same "combo" for PvE and PvP.
PvP is impending fate + fortune protection doing around 65% of the work.
PvE is empowered soul shroud + fortune protection by itself. Using impending fate in PvE is loosing some dps or overall healing boost for soul shroud which is your highest healing ability there.
The PvE spec is more into the healer that bring some dps boost : 5% crit debuff + doing 100-200k dps, with constant heal.
The PvP one is here to heal as much as possible with fortune protection and impending fate combo, so not really empowering other spells but brutal heal every 10sec.

You can't bring a group from 1% to 100% in one spell cause most of your heal, in PvE, rely on dots and fortune protection ticks. But your soul shroud heal for 25%+ of people health every 0.5sec which is enough while waiting for the hard tick of fortune protection.
It's not the same spells cause eternal boost soul shroud better than fortune + impending fate (low and fast tick rate = Monsters heal with eternal proc).

It's not the same playstyle, but both of them are very powerfull where they shine, with PvP specs being stronger than anything in PvP, and PvE spec being nice in raids.

[Hokhmah]

Double post, fail

[Shas]

Primalist not able to insta top everyone
Mystic, stay in pvp ^^

[Sarleaf]

I play PvE more , but i also played PvP a lot with farseer on my prima alt.
We don't use the same "combo" for PvE and PvP.

Ahh, good point. I forgot that there would be separate specs (because I'm a noob that sometimes uses the same spec in pve and pvp... or at least, that's how I started pvp). I guess this might make it hard to compare, though, but thank you for your post.

[Avathar]

For Fareseer, 50% was my initial plan, but I wanted to get player feedback concerning it before going that low so the initial changes were set to 25% for the abilities, and the buffs.

As for the global modifier increasing, that is something that can be considered at a later date, since it would require running numbers on every healing soul in PvP. Currently, the focus is on getting cleric DPS in PvE boosted a bit to bring it more in line with the other callings and bring Farseer PvP healing more in line with the rest of the healing masses.

[Hokhmah]

Another change i just think of for inquisitor :
Is there a way to make channels tick Legendary sanction with 0.5internal cd ? The ST dps boost could be pretty nice with this.
Like when RC buff is up, channels tick Legendary sanction as well.

[Slaybae]

For Fareseer, 50% was my initial plan, but I wanted to get player feedback concerning it before going that low so the initial changes were set to 25% for the abilities, and the buffs.

As for the global modifier increasing, that is something that can be considered at a later date, since it would require running numbers on every healing soul in PvP. Currently, the focus is on getting cleric DPS in PvE boosted a bit to bring it more in line with the other callings and bring Farseer PvP healing more in line with the rest of the healing masses.

Then it's just better to completely gut farseer heals to make it do as much healing as other classes souls (which is practically none because it's aoe heals and we all know at this point what that has done to the warfronts) and then just buff up primalists ST heals accordingly.

[Hokhmah]

Then it's just better to completely gut farseer heals to make it do as much healing as other classes souls (which is practically none because it's aoe heals and we all know at this point what that has done to the warfronts) and then just buff up primalists ST heals accordingly.

Unfortunatly, prima ST heal spec was never viable in PvP and PvE from the day it goes live. This will need tons of work to make it viable as ST healer.
The only place where it was used was on dark Genesis if you had too much dps , for cristals healing...

[Shas]

Another change i just think of for inquisitor :
Is there a way to make channels tick Legendary sanction with 0.5internal cd ? The ST dps boost could be pretty nice with this.
Like when RC buff is up, channels tick Legendary sanction as well.

Think about pvp balance lol.

SoP proccing SH is an exploit to begin with so your Channel idea would only represent an alternative.

Another way is to amp up the life dmg in Inq as it doesn't effect channel dmg.
or
Eternal ancors like: Scourge ticking dmg/sec over time instead of dmg over time.