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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: PTS Update - 6/13/2019

  1.   This is the last Rift Team post in this thread.   #1
    Rift Team Avathar's Avatar
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    Default PTS Update - 6/13/2019

    Call to Action: Unicornalia has been enabled on PTS for player testing.
    Along with the mounts, pets, lures, zone events, and daily quests that are typical with a Call to Action event, Unicornalia has the addition of a new type of quest that allows the ascended to choose to complete one of two different objectives. Also, please note that the mounts and pets available during this Call to Action event are still being adjusted, as are their price points.

    Planar Fragments have had their Infusion prices lowered.

    Additionally, the patch also contains some balance adjustments to healing abilities in PvP. These adjustments are still going through internal review but additional feedback from a few actual matches is always helpful.

    The following abilities have had their effectiveness reduced to be consistent with other healing abilities:

    Rogue:
    Planar Rejuvenation
    Legendary Planar Rejuvenation
    Life Insurance
    Legendary Life Insurance

    Warrior:
    No Permission to Die
    Touch of Life

    Primalist:
    Primal Avatar: Ram
    Legendary Primal Avatar: Ram
    Thread of Fate
    Legendary Thread of Fate
    Shifting Wind
    Savage Excitement

    Cleric:
    Legendary Flash of the Phoenix
    Reprieve
    Legendary Aggressive Avarice
    Legendary Summon: Faerie Healer
    Ravaging Darkness

    Mage:
    Soothing Waters
    Reclaim Elements

    Items:
    Prophetic healing philter
    Prophetic healing potion
    Prophetic healing tonic
    Prophetic philter of restoration

    Please post your feedback here in the forums.
    Last edited by Avathar; 06-14-2019 at 05:54 PM.

  2. #2
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    Each of the classes has certain advantages over each other. Some have more advantages over others outside of healing factor. For example, some classes are designed with far better burst frequency and much easier delivery of that burst than other classes. Some classes have better stealth and unmatchable mobility and teleport options. Some classes have far better handling of disconnects. Some classes have better survival mechanisms other than healing. A great example is an ability Diffuse in Rogue Ranger. It is basically 10 secs. of immortality every 1 min which is far better than a partial full life heal in a tank who chooses to give up damage to be a front line punching bag. So essentially we have a dps soul with a far better survivability CD than a tank.

    Those healing changes will remove and limit certain class advantages further making it so that there are less viable options in PvP for most players. This will make the playing field less dynamic overall. Virtually making range vs range even more insanely dominant than it currently is.

    Players who have chosen to learn to play 4-5 playstyles in pvp will now only have 1-2 playstyle options they deem viable to them. A player who only learns to play one playstyle will now encounter less diversity in PvP. These changes further dumb down the playing field and make it so that their are fewer scenarios and challenges to overcome.

    Your changes seek mostly to reward players who are less adaptable, most ignorant or choose to play only one way. However, it will not make a difference in those players experience as the more adaptable players will always find the best class or best way to play in the ultra-limited playing field you have now given them.They will find the best and most diverse class and just role switch to take advantages of those who choose to play one way.

    PvP adjustments should address much more than one factor at a time like these changes attempt to do. As an experience class developer, I really expect that you can see within 5 mins of reading back those changes to yourself how they will affect the gameplay and playing field in PvP. I really expect that it would take you less than 2 mins. to see without a doubt what class will have the most advantage and what class will have the least advantage with those changes. I really expect that you don't need to waste 4-6 months of data accumulation to get the information you should see right now within 2 mins of reading those changes back to yourself. Please do not take that as an insult.

    Here are some things you can consider to do which will be great. Make A New Vial with its own individual buff that detects stealth on the minimap so stealth is not so dominant. Something that last 30 secs. and can be used every 2 mins. Have it purchase with favor. Adjust Farseer healing down initially. Move Touch of Life further up the tree in Paladin so it is not as accessible to synergy with warlord or healing souls. If you are going to reduce Legendary "fixes" to class designs of cleric you should also reduce the self-damaging talents that DO NOT get Damage reductions in PvP as well for example all of the defiler greed spells. If tank is really a problem in your eyes because it seems like it, make counters with the most disadvantaged class. You should already know how ignoring armor rips a tank to shreds with BladeDancer and Warriors. Make changes to harb and fix shaman in a way to also deal with them similarly in their melee specs like warrior and rogue can. Put a speed cap in warfronts or change the way certain speed abilities work. Primalist speed boost in warfronts give an incredible advantage. I can't believe this is not even mentioned or addressed by class dev. So does mystic from mages who can move/teleport and speed cap far better compared to other classes.


    "The following abilities have had their effectiveness reduced to be consistent with other healing abilities"
    What are you trying to accomplish by making them more consistent? In no way are changing those abilities going toward the direction of producing a more balanced, diverse and enjoyable PvP environment. And I also feel "reducing", "nerfing" is overall bad and should be done when there is severe outlier. Instead, think about adding counters to classes which have the least viable specs.

    Whenever I see gameplay limiting or removing elements to the game which prevent a way of players to experience the game I feel devs are going in the wrong direction. Any rational person will realize by doing so they are 100% shrinking the player base by removing the ways players have enjoyed playing their game. If players have loved to play 10 different ways and devs now say well 5 of those 10 ways are no longer viable to the player's many players will find the game less playable since devs possibly eliminated the ways they enjoy playing the game. I was hoping that Gamigo will have a fresh new take on class development but seems like the same mistakes being repeated.

    The way it should be handled specifically for PvP is by adding in more ways to counter those playstyles, particularly in other classes with less viable options to encourage growth in those areas. If Trion devs actually followed that one essential rule they would have far less disgruntle players, a far better number of players and more support from the community in every way...

    I don't believe these changes in any way balance or go toward consistency. Consistency implies changes are being done for fairness, logic, and accuracy but when you consider all other factors it is mostly inconsistent anyway.
    A clear class will benefit the most. A clear class will benefit the least. Most players will have less ways to combat each other and premades will have far more dominance since their are less ways to combat them. Less people will PvP. Queue times will increase because of more faceroll premade dominance. More people will quit. The excuse that it is summer time and that is why fewer players online will be used more often.

    The biggest reason most people came to play rift was because of the soul system diversity. The game should not be dumb down for some players who refuse to take advantage of those options. In fact, we should have more instances where those options are encouraged so that players can experience those roles. PvP should encourage the most diverse ways to play your class not limit it to almost all other roles besides range vs range dps and speed capping having no significant advantage or playing at a disadvantage when chosen.
    Last edited by Aedynn; 06-14-2019 at 11:25 PM.

  3. #3
    Shield of Telara Dizbo's Avatar
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    Default 2 General Questions

    Thank you for this new info.
    General Questions:

    1) Is the event scheduled to run 7 days on live?
    2) Approximate testing deadline date it will be available on the PTS?
    3) Any plans to modify the loot table on pvp fragment drops?

    Thank you.
    Last edited by Dizbo; 06-15-2019 at 11:43 PM.

  4. #4
    Telaran Slaybae's Avatar
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    Those healing reductions coming in for pvp are most welcome. They'll basically fix alot of the issues and unbalance that is going on at the moment in pvp. This will bring back more single target healings with people working togheter to heal the teams. These nerfs will also prevent warriors and clerics from abusing the healing chains using multiple big healing potions and abilities to stay alive for 10 years.

    But because how high the damage output is at the moment for every class and spec/talents abroad the classes, in my opinion i Think single target healing specs for every class should be buffed to counter the damage (a single person single healing can't outheal the damage currently of alot of specs e.g warlords, bladedancers, riftblades, Marksman and its variants etc).
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  5. #5
    Telaran Ikamuni's Avatar
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    I make a really fun defiler build - they nerf it
    I make a really fun tank build - they nerf it

    When I first started to play this game in 2013 pvp (both in warfront and overworld) was fun as a cleric. Back then shaman could just 3-hit people into oblivion and then run away lul. And back then sentinel was so effective at healing. I don't understand why sentinel can't heal sh*t nowadays in warfront. And this is coming from a geared cleric user.

    If you must nerf cleric healing then do something to boost its damage output by a lot. I would expect bladedancer (or higher) levels of DPS. If the DPS increase cannot be done just don't nerf cleric healing at all.
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  6. #6
    Shadowlander Olkq's Avatar
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    Default PvP healing

    Nightblade's Twilight Transcendence and Inquisitor's Judicial Privilege are missing from the list. Reliquaries might belong in there too. For instance Reliquary of Rage currently heals for the full amount in warfronts.

  7. #7
    RIFT Guide Writer Maltie's Avatar
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    Taking bets that Visionary Healing Pots aren't going to be nerfed and are now BiS in wf's


    As a side note: Because its highly unlikely that warfronts aren't ever going to pop on PTS for us to test this, can you just give us the values you reduced the heal pots too?

    Or open up CQ permanently on PTS so we can just use it for gear checks + ability checks (or make WF's pop with 1 person only)



    Edit: Nvm it's also fixed in duels

    Reliqs and Prophetic Heal Potions now heal for 4480 (was 64000)
    Prophetic Healing Philter now heals for 2800 (was 40000)
    Prophetic Philter of Restoration now heals for 2520 (was 36000)

    But! (btw called it)
    Visionary Healing Potion still heals for its 56000 health
    Visionary Philter of Restoration still heals for 32000 health
    Visionary Healing Tonic still heals for 64000 health over 12 seconds


    So you only nerfed Prophetic and left every other heal pot in the game


    As for feedback, I honestly don't feel healing pots to be an issue in this meta, heal pots were annoying when everything got nerfed into ground, but TTK is at an ok enough level to allow heal pots to remain the same (imo), if you were adamant on nerfing them in pvp you'd be better off 50% nerf not a 93% nerf of all pots


    tl;dr don't nerf healing pots, TTK is fine
    Last edited by Maltie; 06-16-2019 at 01:06 PM.
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  8. #8
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    Make ST healing builds viable again. Right now, they are not.
    Last edited by Joebuu; 06-16-2019 at 07:01 PM.
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    I like that they are looking at things to fix, but really the farseer is the first one to fix, THEN get to the other stuff mentioned. Also, I do like that they are trying to nerf multiple heals that have needed nerfed, but without buffing overall heals, it will just make for only the farseer as a healer really. So if the intent is to nerf, then immediately up all heals, go for it. I still dont get why they cant assign the heals that are bypassing the pvp nerf, the actual nerf its supposed to get in pvp. Must be some programming thing beyond me.

    I'd also lower dps by 20-30%, or start fixing outlier abilities that cause massive dps. Also fixing fragments would help. Everyone needs crit power and that's just silly that its the all in all, and benefits certain souls WAY more then others. Fragments take already OP souls to god level and they kill players in 4 seconds, which in no world should happen even a new geared player vs. max geared. Thats one reason people DONT want to pvp, this massive power difference. I'm talking from the perspective of someone who has several toons that are not quite max geared, but dang even without full gear they hit too hard, and with everything macroed. My paragon can do some massive, quick damage. It feels fine sometimes because of OP farseers, but if you nerf them like they need to be, then we have a bunch of overpowered dps annhilating everything, which I dont want either. The game is currently so bad you just need to macro break frees and you'll kill players before any CC can really do anything to stop them, which is sad because utility that should be used in the game is almost pointless vs. hitting a dps button. Shows the skill curve needed to play the current state of the game.

    I also find it sad I look at parses and here is what I see from the OP souls: Forgive me if I get the name of the ability wrong.

    Mages: Crystalline missiles 50-60% of all their dps

    Rogues: BD is ridiculous overall, enough said. Hellfire Blades tops a lot of charts in overall dps, as does several other rogue abilities. To be honest, a max geared rogue is pretty great in most souls since overall they benefit the most from crit power since most rogues are crit based % already.

    Warriors: Rift Blade, Paragon and Warlord all need looked at. Too many macroed auto hits that stack. Warlord is probably the worst, but I've seen RB and Paragons max geared that are 4-5 globaling people consistently. Rift Burst 50% of dps? Ok. Rising waterfall hitting 10 times in one shot is a bit much, crit stacked and crit power stacked.

    Primalist: Really needs reworked, but threshers maw (50% of overall dps) is the main problem if I had to pick one ability. Also, farseers ruin most games or any semblance of balance. I'd fix them first before anything else. Farseer: The one aoe heal/10 seconds 60% of their heals...an AOE heal is the top heal in the game...just sad.

    Cleric: Nerfing any soul would just be like kicking a cripple while they are down. Clerics are the one soul that I wouldn't touch anything to nerf. I play all souls and this is by far the weakest pvp soul of all. I do inq decently well but its not up to par with dps, especially if you nerf judicial privelage to get rid of its 1v1 staying ability. Ok nerf the heal, but geez up the cleric souls overall.

    Anyways my overall two cents.

    Oh and please look at pve items in pvp. Some still get through, and are extremely powerful like that healing staff that heals when your at 30% life. A certain farseer always has it on, making them nearly impossible to kill...an auto kicked in ability. Again, no skill, just auto healed from a pve item.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aedynn View Post
    snip.
    I read your opinion, but you have to remember, they are targeting abilities that should have been nerfed in pvp along with all the other heal abilities.

    Keep in mind, I also agree that they need to fix, for example, heals in general like the 80% of other healing abilities that do nothing in pvp, vs. nerfing all the as of current un-nerfed pvp healing abilities.

    The problem is, the ones that get the un-nerfed heals are much better off then those that did get nerfed heals, so soul unbalancing begins right there.

    To correct the house, however, you have to fix the base first, and work your way up. If they just plan on nerfing with not fixing the actual issues, yes, this is horrible. If they keep going and get everything in-line first, then this is a good method.

    I'm just wondering why they skipped over farseer's heal....? Its the biggest pvp issue and its not getting addressed? It affects the whole game more then any other ability and its on a 10 second CD.

    i.e. I believe people will still play the souls that are getting the pvp heal nerf, as long as they continue to balance outward from there to get everything else in line like dps next.

  11. #11
    Ascendant Flashmemory's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wrastion View Post
    I read your opinion, but you have to remember, they are targeting abilities that should have been nerfed in pvp along with all the other heal abilities.
    Actually you are wrong. When those changes were added they were fine tuning souls and roles in PvP. They were tuning talents and adding new talents. Not all healing/absorb were suppose to be effected the same and they are not. Puri still have very heavy nerfs on top of that and certain dps classes have nerfs on top of nerfs.

    "Firstly we want to shake up the meta a bit and provide a bit more of a Rock Paper Scissors Lizard Spock environment where different team compositions incentivize players to know multiple souls and switch to respond to changes on the battlefield. Given that, these single target healing debuffs are designed as counters to pocket healers and large direct healing stacking, but will provide little to no benefit against several AoE healers.

    Secondly, we want playing a particular role to feel better, and having to watch for counters to that role being more meaningful. This ties directly in with the above goal, but deserves restating because it improves the reward for awareness and smart target selection and soul switching." -Keyens

    They wanted to create as many viable souls as possible in PvP. They unnerfed the tank healing and created the twisted soul debuffs to encourage using support roles as well as tanks however the twisted souls were in specs that were garbage at the time and FK was an overpowered broken healer on release. One button elementalist and ranger/sab remakes in PvP were broken and had high survival, burst and were outliers because DPS souls were supposed to get all healing nerfed and didn't at the time. And Keyens overlooked how broken diffuse was. Parachanter was out of control and clerics were in the dump because of all their nerfs and many changes were done to that class that were not PvP focused.. more like beating on a standing dummy that required you to play like a turret or run in and die as well as deal unreduced damage to yourself for mana or dps.

    Fast forward 3 years later they didn't do much to refine or encourage the twisted debuffs. They could have made them more available, last longer, placed in more useful and viable specs with better synergy etc.

    In addition, they added armor penetration to deal with tanks on top of that but only warrior and rogue had great specs to deal with them. The other classes were left out with no strong counters to them.

    To be honest I think the devs have the tools available to them to fix balance but don't realize it and instead reverse course to actually dumbing down the game by making less viable options to players. I do agree that some changes are needed. I wouldn't have nerfed pots more than 50% and have left reliquary the same. At least those encourage players to log in or work toward something. Now they are useless. It doesn't even make sense since Newbies have to work for RNG gear and Fragments and upgrades as well which are far worse outliers than pots and reliq plus they didn't even address Farseer which is the biggest healing complaint for the most part and the other changes just greatly limit your own self-sustainability. With TTK being this low you have more DPS options available since it is much more overkill potential and it doesn't matter as long as it is the same kill frequency at that point. Let us say everyone now complains about TTK being too low. What are they going to do.. nerf overall damage to the point where we now have only 1 option to dps which is one reason why (BD was so powerful before the warrior changes?)

    I always use to say bolstering was a big problem and should be looked at. Maybe to adjust the lower end of bolstering up significantly regardless of the gear you have slotted. It is pretty easy to tell that player is an easy kill for instance when they have less than 225K life for starters because you know their gear is trash.
    Last edited by Flashmemory; 06-17-2019 at 06:15 AM.

  12. #12
    Telaran
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    How can we playtest the PvP changes? Is there a scheduled event or the likes because you really need to queue a match with others?

    Also, when you make these healing nerfs for PvP are you considering increasing the PvP healing modifier for everyone to compensate a bit? Should have a little nock on impact to make other heal specs that are not primalist a bit more effective.

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