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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: A Few Soul Tweaks

  1.   Click here to go to the next Rift Team post in this thread.   #1
    RIFT Team Din Othar's Avatar
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    Default A Few Soul Tweaks

    Hi all,

    Reading through posts, made a few tweaks to the following souls:

    • Item: The 2 piece bonus of Nyx’s Synergy Crystal now reduces the cooldown of Flame Bolt.
    • Warrior: Paragon – Increased the bonus Shifting Blades receives from points spent in the Paragon soul.
    • Warrior: Paragon – Increased duration of the Alacrity and Legendary Alacrity buffs.
    • Warrior: Tempest – Electricity Cascade deals an additional tick of damage each time the Warrior damages the affected enemy with an Air ability. This damage increases each time the damage is triggered.
    • Warrior: Tempest – Bonus Double Pulse procs no longer trigger other procs (i.e. Electricity Cascade, Icy Burst, etc.)
    • Warrior: Tempest – Increase the bonus Arc receives from points spent in the Tempest soul.

    Thanks,

    Din O
    Last edited by Yaviey; 07-26-2018 at 03:32 PM. Reason: updated title

  2. #2
    Soulwalker
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    Default Welcome

    You seem to be new so I try to be as nice as I can after reading your changes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Din Othar View Post
    Hi all,


    • Item: The 2 piece bonus of Nyx’s Synergy Crystal now reduces the cooldown of Flame Bolt.
    I tested this one and it doesn`t work on PTS. I still have a 8 sec cooldown of Flame Bolt instead of the displayed 7 sec cooldown which can easily tracked by looking at the timer for your Improved Flame Bolt.


    Second thing is that reducing the cd of Flame Bolt by 1 sec is kinda pointless if you look at the Wildfire talent of Pyromancer so you gain almost 0 dps from it. A better solution would be to increase the %hp you can use Inferno for example it goes from 40% to 60% hp as the 4 piece bonus(an other small detail which is wrong in your post)

    Third and last one is that synergy crystal name is wrong and I guess the file name was not changed after the name of the crystal was changed for Rift Prime. This is even causing huge issues with the current Tier 2 armor. Only mentioning that Tier 2 items overall have a too low itemlv on Prime at the moment to be an upgrade especially of missing tertiary stats some items are even worse than expert gear.
    Attachment 33244

    Quote Originally Posted by Din Othar View Post
    • Warrior: Paragon – Increased the bonus Shifting Blades receives from points spent in the Paragon soul.
    • Warrior: Tempest – Increase the bonus Arc receives from points spent in the Tempest soul.

    Thanks,

    Din O
    I also tested this one: I saw an increase in dmg but I can't understand the math behind these abilities at all.
    So I have the values for level 50 from Arc and Shifiting for using it with a different amount of attack points.
    1AP: Arc is 55% Shifting Blades 53%
    2AP: Arc is 65% Shifting Blades 65%
    3AP: Arc is 75% Shifting Blades 77%

    Regarding that the dmg bonus should scale with attack points used I can confirm that it is not working for Arc and that Shifting Blades is strange. If you subtract the initial scaling of Arc from these numbers you see that you get 45% dmg bonus from the beyond 28 points scaling regardless of attack points used. I can't say that for Shifting Blades but there is no explanation for it in the realms of multiplicative or additive dmg boosts unless the comma point is placed wrong for the scaling beyond 28 points.

    Since the original ability was dealing 75% of initial dmg the beyond 28 point scaling should be
    additive to the intial percentage. So for lv 50 we would get the values:

    1AP: Arc 56% Shifting Blades 44.5%
    2AP: Arc 112% Shifting Blades 89%
    3AP: Arc 168% Shifting Blades 133.5%

    Very strange abilities with strange behaviour

  3. #3
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Din Othar View Post
    Hi all,

    Reading through posts, made a few tweaks to the following souls:

    • Item: The 2 piece bonus of Nyx’s Synergy Crystal now reduces the cooldown of Flame Bolt.
    • Warrior: Paragon – Increased the bonus Shifting Blades receives from points spent in the Paragon soul.
    • Warrior: Paragon – Increased duration of the Alacrity and Legendary Alacrity buffs.
    • Warrior: Tempest – Electricity Cascade deals an additional tick of damage each time the Warrior damages the affected enemy with an Air ability. This damage increases each time the damage is triggered.
    • Warrior: Tempest – Bonus Double Pulse procs no longer trigger other procs (i.e. Electricity Cascade, Icy Burst, etc.)
    • Warrior: Tempest – Increase the bonus Arc receives from points spent in the Tempest soul.

    Thanks,

    Din O
    Very cool, thanks for beginning this process.

    Can you please look to see what can be done to bring rogue melee ST dps, ranged ST dps, and ae dps, back in line with other classes post scatter sticky fix?

    Welcome to our community 8) glad to have you with us!

  4. #4
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye2 View Post
    You seem to be new so I try to be as nice as I can after reading your changes.



    I tested this one and it doesn`t work on PTS. I still have a 8 sec cooldown of Flame Bolt instead of the displayed 7 sec cooldown which can easily tracked by looking at the timer for your Improved Flame Bolt.


    Second thing is that reducing the cd of Flame Bolt by 1 sec is kinda pointless if you look at the Wildfire talent of Pyromancer so you gain almost 0 dps from it. A better solution would be to increase the %hp you can use Inferno for example it goes from 40% to 60% hp as the 4 piece bonus(an other small detail which is wrong in your post)

    Third and last one is that synergy crystal name is wrong and I guess the file name was not changed after the name of the crystal was changed for Rift Prime. This is even causing huge issues with the current Tier 2 armor. Only mentioning that Tier 2 items overall have a too low itemlv on Prime at the moment to be an upgrade especially of missing tertiary stats some items are even worse than expert gear.
    Attachment 33244



    I also tested this one: I saw an increase in dmg but I can't understand the math behind these abilities at all.
    So I have the values for level 50 from Arc and Shifiting for using it with a different amount of attack points.
    1AP: Arc is 55% Shifting Blades 53%
    2AP: Arc is 65% Shifting Blades 65%
    3AP: Arc is 75% Shifting Blades 77%

    Regarding that the dmg bonus should scale with attack points used I can confirm that it is not working for Arc and that Shifting Blades is strange. If you subtract the initial scaling of Arc from these numbers you see that you get 45% dmg bonus from the beyond 28 points scaling regardless of attack points used. I can't say that for Shifting Blades but there is no explanation for it in the realms of multiplicative or additive dmg boosts unless the comma point is placed wrong for the scaling beyond 28 points.

    Since the original ability was dealing 75% of initial dmg the beyond 28 point scaling should be
    additive to the intial percentage. So for lv 50 we would get the values:

    1AP: Arc 56% Shifting Blades 44.5%
    2AP: Arc 112% Shifting Blades 89%
    3AP: Arc 168% Shifting Blades 133.5%

    Very strange abilities with strange behaviour
    The math actually works out to be purely additive for arc; with 61 tempest, you get a 96% arc for 3 attack points, which is (30%+(61-28)*2%), for 1 attack points, its 76% (10%+(33*2%)). whether or not they want it to scale more with tempest investment than attack points, idk.
    shifting blades is a bit weird.

    But also, at least for me; electricity cascade's bonus damage isn't working. The tool-tip is updated, but the bonus damage isn't happening.
    Last edited by Drincho; 07-26-2018 at 09:48 PM.

  5. #5
    General of Telara
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    Hey man, thanks for the updates here and welcome to Rift.

    The % increase on Shifting is a welcome buff, I like that you are rewarded for investing in a tree. My worry is though that this buffs the Paragon spec that ignores the use of Reaping harvest and just spams RB finishers. (the builders consume the procs) I hope that RB finishers are looked at soon, perhaps with their damage increasing with points spent in the tree.

    With regards to the increase in duration of Alacarity in both forms, the buff provides a set number of procs by which it will occur (7 & 14). This number can usually be consumed within the 30 seconds on live (always with normal) but I imagine with lag or not using the traditional builder -> follow up -> Reaping for a few seconds you might miss one. This is great but not really much of a dps increase.

    Could Alacrity just put a buff on you for the stacks that has no duration? You could have max stacks or possibly not allow it to be reaplied until all previous stacks were used. Could I also suggest we increase the stacks? perhaps 10 & 20 respectively?

    Thanks again

    P.S. The Legendary Viscious Strike skill (Beastmaster) still consumes bleeds on the target

  6. #6
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drincho View Post
    The math actually works out to be purely additive for arc; with 61 tempest, you get a 96% arc for 3 attack points, which is (30%+(61-28)*2%), for 1 attack points, its 76% (10%+(33*2%)).
    The tooltip says that the 2% are granted per attack point used so it should be 228% (30%+(61-28)*2%*3). Scaling wise it also makes sense because at some point 1 point finisher would be more attractive if that bonus wouldn't scale with the number of attack points. So there is definitely something wrong here.

    Also these abilities are kinda old and there tend to be issues with correct coding/flagging of abilities with more than one instance of effect in the past. So I guess this ability was never really working as intended after they put this scaling in or it's just one of the many incorrect tooltips for abilities in the game
    Last edited by Hawkeye2; 07-27-2018 at 04:03 AM.

  7.   Click here to go to the next Rift Team post in this thread.   #7
    RIFT Team Din Othar's Avatar
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    Default Thanks guys!

    Thanks for the quick feedback and I will start tweaking/fixing. Please bare with me as I learn the tools and the game.

    Din O
    Last edited by Din Othar; 07-27-2018 at 09:56 AM.

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    Ascendant Seshatar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Din Othar View Post
    Thanks for the quick feedback and I will start tweaking/fixing. Please bear with me as I learn the tools and the game.

    Din O
    Thanks for working on these important issues!

    On a side note, we already figured out you have been Producer in the Trove team before, what made you change to the RIFT team? What will you be mainly working on? Yes I know, I'm very curious.
    twitch.tv/seshatar | Twitter: @Seshatar | HoT Discord | Discord: Seshatar#1337

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  9.   Click here to go to the next Rift Team post in this thread.   #9
    RIFT Team Din Othar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seshatar View Post
    Thanks for working on these important issues!

    On a side note, we already figured out you have been Producer in the Trove team before, what made you change to the RIFT team? What will you be mainly working on? Yes I know, I'm very curious.
    Hi Seshatar,

    Why Rift? Pretty simple, I have always wanted to work on Rift. I am still working on Trove China, but I will also be learning the Rift tools, and doing some design work. I am really excited about being more hands-on, and doing some design again. One of the cool things about Trion is if you have a good idea, and are passionate about something, they give you a chance to do it.

    Din O

  10. #10
    RIFT Guide Writer Waseem2k's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Din Othar View Post
    Hi Seshatar,

    Why Rift? Pretty simple, I have always wanted to work on Rift. I am still working on Trove China, but I will also be learning the Rift tools, and doing some design work. I am really excited about being more hands-on, and doing some design again. One of the cool things about Trion is if you have a good idea, and are passionate about something, they give you a chance to do it.

    Din O
    Heya, Welcome to the team. I appreciate all the changes you've worked on so far. Just a fair warning, you will be hearing from me a lot :P

    The main thing to look at first though is the Eternal Weapon. All of our specs rely on Eternal Weapon proccing, this makes them extremely clunky to play, this needs to be resolved first.

    Shifting Blades and Arc buffs are a good start, hopefully these changes don't make them overpowered to the point they were back in Storm Legion. I have suggested having a skill high up in each of these specs that gives them a flat buff.

    Electricity Cascade is a good change. It definitely makes it a lot more useful.

    Many finishers across all warrior souls also need to be looked at. Reaping Harvest and Skyfall are the first to come to mind. Skyfall hasn't been useful for a very long time.

    Reaping Harvest damage is extremely low. Low enough that we are replacing it with Icy Burst. If it procced Way of the Wind, it may be worth using again.

    Skyfall even after the revert to the legendary, it's damage is still low and with so many finishers available in Tempest, it's rarely worth casting.
    Last edited by Waseem2k; 07-29-2018 at 10:31 PM.
    Rompalstomp - Raid Lead / Warrior Lead "Nefarious"

  11. #11
    RIFT Guide Writer Waseem2k's Avatar
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    After some testing, here's a few things I've noticed.

    Arc
    I don't know when this was changed (would have to look through patch notes if it's even in there). However even on live, the bonus damage from points spent beyond 28 is the exact same no matter how many attack points are used. This shouldn't be the case. The bonus damage should be scaling per attack point.

    With 61 points spent, there are 33 points after the first 28.
    On live this means 33 * 1.1 which equals 36.3% This should be getting the initial 10% added on and then multiplied by the number of attack points. 46.3% x AP. However instead we are getting 36.3% + (10% x AP). This should have been 138.9% with 3 AP spent but instead we are getting 66.3%.

    We don't lose a lot of dps for using 1pt Arcs and has great potential for 1 button specs. 3pt arc should be worth it. Maybe tone it down to 1.5% per point but scale it with attack points. Even with the 2% on pts, arc is not really worth the gcd, at the very least it should be off gcd.

    Shifting Blades
    Exact same issue as arc but has 4 stacks and is off GCD. Looks like this is also getting a 2% buff even though the tooltip says 1.5%

    Electricity Cascade
    Change is great but the damage doesn't seem that great. The damage bonus should scale per attack point used. 20% for 1pt, 40% for 2pt, 60% for 3pt. Or the starting damage needs to be a lot higher. I would opt for the first option as it promotes 3pts. Currently the damage is the same no matter how many points I use. The only difference is the actual dot damage.

    This ability needs a damage cap. I can see a lot of abuse potential with Precision Strikes and Turn the Blade. It may be easier to have this work off it's own dot tick rather than an external ability. This way we can't force extra procs. See Icy Burst for example!

    Open the Stream
    Could use a similar treatment as Electricity Cascade. Make it worth casting. Make Reaping Harvest trigger an extra hit for a % of the damage.

    Wavelength
    The CD reduction on this needs to go. It needs to be a flat 30s CD if that is what it's going for or make it increase your damage significantly for the duration and leave it at 1min.

    Alacrity
    As mentioned above, increase the stack size to 10/20 or give it a guaranteed 3rd hit on Reaping Harvest and Rising Waterfall for the legendary.

    BTW 1 Button Paragon is doing even more damage than before. A proper rotation doesn't even come close. Icy still broken OP. Dual Wielding still better than Two-Hander for free procs. Eternal Proccing still an issue!
    Last edited by Waseem2k; 07-31-2018 at 12:03 AM.
    Rompalstomp - Raid Lead / Warrior Lead "Nefarious"

  12. #12
    Prophet of Telara Refuge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tempered Steel View Post
    Very cool, thanks for beginning this process.

    Can you please look to see what can be done to bring rogue melee ST dps, ranged ST dps, and ae dps, back in line with other classes post scatter sticky fix?
    I have no words for this, just a jaw drop
    Fwob - Zaviel

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    RIFT Guide Writer Maltie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Refuge View Post
    I have no words for this, just a jaw drop
    I don't really mind the nerfs that happened to rogue, decent players will still remain useful and competitive

    What I do mind is that with the fix to Scatter, they also broke detonate damage on every Sab bomb

    Nb/sab should still be competitive for ST because Fragmentation Sticky Bomb wasn't supposed to receive any nerfs, and the ST difference between pre-patch Scatter and Frag was very small

    It would also be nice to actually receive confirmation that changes like Curative Remote no longer being buffed by eternal (and weapon buffs), and the nerfs to Frag/Scatter/Annihilation sticky bombs were intended, but there has just been nothing, at least put such large sweeping changes in the patch notes so we know it was intended



    tl;dr I just wanna parse man Fix bombs
    Nixia@Greybriar]

    Quote Originally Posted by Cruzito View Post
    its actually 4 buttons. Let me know when you learn how to rogue

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Refuge View Post
    I have no words for this, just a jaw drop
    Yeah I don't want to be misunderstood here, and I would like it if a vague statement doesn't create unintended drama.

    First, please note I'm speaking as a rogue on Prime. I have no expertise with how these fixes impacted Live rogues.

    However, on Prime, the scatter fix reduced Rogue dps to a level that is under any other raid-level dps spec for other class souls. Rogues are not quite in the position that Warriors were at the start of prime, but the reduction was significant enough that some guilds will not bring rogues or will cap rogues (edit: cap them extremely low, I edited to specify this so you don't think I'm suggesting that you should be free to, or need to, run a 20 man raid composition with 15 rogues) for current end game content. Other guilds will allow them to come but must heavily modify entire strategies to allow Rogues to use their one viable raid DPS spec at the moment, which is Bladedancer. And even in Bladedancer, skilled rogues post lower single target and lower AE than every other class. Please do not take my word on this, look through the prancing turtle data from post-fix end game raids, or please PM me and get with me on Vigil and I will show you.

    I'm not even asking for changes to Sab, I would love to see other Rogue DPS souls brought to parity with the other classes. Shadeborn, Ranger, MM, Tactician, Bladedancer, Assassin, NIghtblade, all could use some love for Prime. When comparing role to role for DPS purposes, Rogues shouldn't be less than equal to other classes just like Warriors shouldn't have been.
    Last edited by Tempered Steel; 07-31-2018 at 10:16 AM.

  15.   Click here to go to the next Rift Team post in this thread.   #15
    RIFT Team Din Othar's Avatar
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    Default Fixed some errors

    Quote Originally Posted by Din Othar View Post
    Thanks for the quick feedback and I will start tweaking/fixing. Please bare with me as I learn the tools and the game.

    Din O
    Hi all,

    Thanks again for catching some issues. I hope to update PTS tomorrow with the following fixes.

    • Item - Fixed an issue where the 2 piece bonus of Nyx’s Pyromancer Crystal was not correctly reducing the cooldown time of Flame Bolt.
    • Warrior: Tempest - Updated the additional damage proc from Electricity Cascade. The extra damage is now based on the Warrior’s Attack Power only and the tooltip is now accurate for the damage being done.
    • Warrior: Beastmaster – Fixed an issue where Legendary Vicious Opportunity was still removing DoT effects.
    • Updated the basic description for the Benefactor preset.

    Also thanks for input on other souls and abilities for me to look at.

    Din O

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