+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 10 of 10
Like Tree3Likes
  • 1 Post By Burninalways
  • 1 Post By Scourge
  • 1 Post By ironstrix

Thread: Parsing Saboteur and Mystic Archer

  1. #1
    RIFT Guide Writer Burninalways's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    1,456

    Default Parsing Saboteur and Mystic Archer

    Saboteur and Mystic Archer abilities always hit up to 3 enemies so parses should always be done with at least 3 Level 50 Mathosian Practice Dummies.

    This will enable us to see what there real damage is compared to other soul. As any other soul would have to use a cooldown ability or swap to aoe abilities before they can hit more than one enemy at a time.


    For Devs:
    This damage Saboteur and Mystic are doing against 3 Dummies should be equal to any other soul that is pure single target. So when they are hitting 1 enemy they should be doing less damage than normal.

    Meaning Saboteur and Mystic should only be used when you want to cleave the enemy, otherwise nothing will changed and they will still be the top dps specs of their class in both PvP and PvE.


    Oh and please put a target cap on Elemental Barrage of like 5 enemies.
    True Server First Prime GP: Anrak the Foul & Guurloth
    4/5 GSB
    4/4 GP
    4/4 DH

  2. #2
    Plane Walker Scourge's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    421

    Default

    Make sure you parse defiler on 3+ dummies too since it benefits significantly from being able to multidot /s

    Almost every soul benefits from 2+ targets in some capacity, whether it's passive cleave or requires a rotational change. It's disingenuous to put a spotlight on only souls with passive cleave.
    Last edited by Scourge; 05-04-2018 at 05:42 AM.
    Focus@Vigil | 50 Mage
    Prime Mage Guide | Twitch.tv

  3. #3
    Shadowlander Torankusu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Posts
    27

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Burninalways View Post
    This damage Saboteur and Mystic are doing against 3 Dummies should be equal to any other soul that is pure single target.
    So you want these souls to parse on three dummies for the same amount that other souls parse on a single one. In other words, you want MA and Sab to do 1/3rd of the DPS of ST souls. To put that more concretely, with top ST specs pushing around 2100 DPS in raid gear, you are proposing to nerf raid-geared MA and Sab to do 700 ST DPS. To put that into perspective, that is less ST DPS than 51 Dominator, and less than 2/3rds of the DPS of 51 Necro.

    I don't have anything more to say.

  4. #4
    Plane Touched
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    202

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Torankusu View Post
    So you want these souls to parse on three dummies for the same amount that other souls parse on a single one. In other words, you want MA and Sab to do 1/3rd of the DPS of ST souls. To put that more concretely, with top ST specs pushing around 2100 DPS in raid gear, you are proposing to nerf raid-geared MA and Sab to do 700 ST DPS. To put that into perspective, that is less ST DPS than 51 Dominator, and less than 2/3rds of the DPS of 51 Necro.

    I don't have anything more to say.
    ^ Yeah.... this. If 44sab specs do 60-70% of what the top ST specs are doing, I think thats a decent range. If the top ST specs are pushing around 2100, then 44 sab ST would be around 1250-1500.

  5. #5
    RIFT Guide Writer Burninalways's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    1,456

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Scourge View Post
    Make sure you parse defiler on 3+ dummies too since it benefits significantly from being able to multidot /s

    Almost every soul benefits from 2+ targets in some capacity, whether it's passive cleave or requires a rotational change. It's disingenuous to put a spotlight on only souls with passive cleave.
    It takes 10.5s to a Defiler to put it dots up on a additional enemy, so for 3 enemies that would hard for most to maintain.

    As for Mystic Archer not all of it's abilities should be reduced to a 1/3 of their damage, only those that can cleave.


    Now Saboteur definitely needs it's damage reduced by 2/3 on one enemy.
    Take Champion if it was dealing top single target damage with it's aoe abilities, wouldn't you want to nerf it straight away?
    True Server First Prime GP: Anrak the Foul & Guurloth
    4/5 GSB
    4/4 GP
    4/4 DH

  6. #6
    Rift Disciple
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    150

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Burninalways View Post
    For Devs:
    This damage Saboteur and Mystic are doing against 3 Dummies should be equal to any other soul that is pure single target.

    ...

    As for Mystic Archer not all of it's abilities should be reduced to a 1/3 of their damage, only those that can cleave.
    It must be pointed out that it is a very good thing that you are not in charge of balance.

    The goal should be to have, for each class, a number of different playable builds that each excel at different situations. They should also lack at times, so that there is not one build that excels at many or all situations. This would promote build diversity and allow choice.

    Your idea is "make every build do the same total dps, regardless of the number of targets they hit" would maximize choice. All specs would be the same. There would literally be no downfalls to any spec because of it.

    A player could play a single target build for an encounter designed for AoE dmg (or the reverse) because number of targets does not matter and all builds (ideally) do the same X total dps.

    Coming from a Cleric player, which can currently deal the most relevant dps on Prime (in optimal conditions) your obvious bias against MA and Sab is pitiful. Hopefully the very flawed idea you had above for balance was a joke that went over my head... but more likely, the most relevant joke is the "True Server First" in your signature.
    Climate
    50 Mage - Virgil

  7. #7
    Telaran
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Posts
    60

    Default

    Sorry to be blunt, but this entire thread is poorly thought out.

    If this balance were to ever somehow make it to live the meta becomes: play the best ST spec.

    Why? You would never suffer from the downside of losing enough targets and thus losing dps. You would always be doing the optimal output of damage your class is capable of. Basically this balance would kill any meaningful choice players could make, thus achieving the exact opposite of what you're intending.

    Ideally the balance situation between AoE/cleave/ST looks something like:

    soul A is the highest ST / very little cleave and AoE potential
    soul B is near highest ST with some cleave
    soul C is very cleave, acceptable ST, acceptable AoE
    soul D is very AoE, acceptable cleave, bad ST

    This provides meaningful choice and rewards you with... better damage in the situation where it's most needed. You should be more efficient in certain niche situations over specs that don't fit that niche.

    As a mage player I can tell you the reason MA is over performing. MA gets many % dmg abilities low in the tree. Dense Elements, Focused Fire, Elemental Bonds. These are all strong abilities and some of them should probably be looked at. It causes mages to be able to get too many pieces of the puzzle posted above assembled into one spec. Mages can get BOTH high ST and high cleave, or BOTH high cleave and high AoE with acceptable ST. Basically we're getting a bit too much for our money spent in MA.
    Last edited by ironstrix; 05-05-2018 at 11:49 AM.
    Strix @Vigil

  8. #8
    Champion
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    566

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Burninalways View Post
    It takes 10.5s to a Defiler to put it dots up on a additional enemy, so for 3 enemies that would hard for most to maintain.

    As for Mystic Archer not all of it's abilities should be reduced to a 1/3 of their damage, only those that can cleave.


    Now Saboteur definitely needs it's damage reduced by 2/3 on one enemy.
    Take Champion if it was dealing top single target damage with it's aoe abilities, wouldn't you want to nerf it straight away?
    sab single target is nerfed. it's not hitting the 2.2k of some other specs INCLUDING CLERICS

    mystic archer on it's own is fine. the souls that dont do elemental damage need to be tuned up. badly. especially and specifically every single bloody mage dot.

    i dont expect necro/lock to hit 2.2k st like those other specs, but 1800 is not unreasonable. we don't all want to be ma. or sab. or runeshapers. or riftblades.


    this game has always only given an illusion of choice. even at launch, even in SL there was only one meta dps spec for each class.

  9. #9
    Telaran
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Posts
    60

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dixa View Post
    sab single target is nerfed. it's not hitting the 2.2k of some other specs INCLUDING CLERICS

    mystic archer on it's own is fine. the souls that dont do elemental damage need to be tuned up. badly. especially and specifically every single bloody mage dot.

    i dont expect necro/lock to hit 2.2k st like those other specs, but 1800 is not unreasonable. we don't all want to be ma. or sab. or runeshapers. or riftblades.


    this game has always only given an illusion of choice. even at launch, even in SL there was only one meta dps spec for each class.
    On this note I really wish we had some good posts from good rogues in the rogue mega-thread. Currently it's just one guy throwing up one build over and over. Where are the MM parses? What about ranger? How's rogue melee? I just have 0 idea where rogue is sitting right now.
    Strix @Vigil

  10. #10
    Telaran AsteroidX's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    89

    Default

    The lack of posts should tell you where Rogues are sitting. We have a viable melee spec/sort of. Current meta is questionable moving forward. I believe Rogues guild is lobbying for some balance in some areas that are not looking correct in relation to other classes.

    But according to DevStream other classes will be looked at later. By the patch notes I assume Rogue is including in the later part so I have taken my roleplaying shoes out of the closet and can be found in the Inn by Sanctum practicing my Bard tunes. Oh wait. that spot is booked by a BM. I will be down by the docs.

+ Reply to Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts