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Thread: Abilities, stacking groups, and YOU!

  1. #1
    Plane Walker Clowd's Avatar
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    Default Abilities, stacking groups, and YOU!

    DISCLAIMER! The following is datamined information and speculative in nature, but seems to fit observations from past experience. Please understand that this may not be 100% accurate!


    So, let's discuss stacking groups and ability grouping in Rift!

    From what I can tell, there are at least 3 different grouping mechanisms for Rift abilities. Tags, Stacking groups, and outgoing calculation level.

    Tags: Flags an abliity as "AoE", "Fire damage", etc. (Generic, allows for talents to impact specific types of abilities like this)

    Stacking Groups: Impacts what buff stacks impact an ability. This is what allows, say, the Chloromancer's "Boon of Life" talent to impact the "Nature's Touch" ability

    outgoing calculation level: This impacts when certain effects are applied in the calculation of final damage. There are 6 known levels: Passive, Active Self, Active Raid, Content, GCD Adjust, and Mastery. I have not personally been able to find anything that uses the "Content" level.

    As an example: Datamining suggests that Paladin's "Shield of the Hero" was originally configured such that the effect that adds +30% healing/absorb was flagged with an "outgoing calculation level" of "Mastery" for the absorb component, and nothing for the "Healing" component. With these changes, both appear to be flagged as "Active Self", which presumably means that they will properly benefit from certain self buffs, such as "Light's Protection".

    This probably means that something like Paladin's "Light's Protection" will properly stack with the 30% bonus from "Shield of the Hero", instead of multiplying that bonus by 15%. So I THINK the net there would be an actual 45% increase to incoming healing, instead of, say, 49.5%. (30%+15% instead of 130% * 115%).

    Anyway, we shall delve further into this info, so let's discuss, explore, and compare the abilities in the patch notes against live so we can see the extent of these changes and finalize what has been buffed or nerfed so we can have an understanding of how to make new builds!
    Last edited by Clowd; 04-30-2018 at 02:06 PM. Reason: sometimes, you gotta make things "pretty"
    Rift Datamining, dev chatter, news, and occasionally guides at The Ghar Station
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  2. #2
    Plane Walker Clowd's Avatar
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    outgoing calculation level - how does this work?

    From what we can tell, everything within a specific calculation level is added together, and then each category is multiplied together. This is where the common discussion of additive vs multiplicative values come into play.

    In addition to the 6 calculation levels, there is also an "ungrouped" level, where many things that are not given a level often end up. To the best of my knowledge, the hidden Rift Prime damage reduction buff is a negative "ungrouped" value, and therefore any other "ungrouped" modifiers could feasibly be enough to remove the reduction entirely.

    So, to recap. Any buffs/debuffs in a certain calculation level are added together, and then each calculation group is multiplied together to arrive at one of many multipliers that impact the final damage of an ability.
    Rift Datamining, dev chatter, news, and occasionally guides at The Ghar Station
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  3. #3
    Plane Walker Clowd's Avatar
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    back with even MORE damage calculation info for your reading pleasure.

    Currently on Rift Prime, there is a hidden debuff called "Rift Prime" that was being used to calculate the incoming/outgoing damage modifications a player would receive. Since this was a debuff on the player, it interacted with many other buffs/debuffs in weird ways that broke some stuff.

    On Omega, there is a new outgoing/incoming damage modifier that is part of the level dataset per player level. This is at least one of the combat calculation changes that has occurred. This also allows for tooltips to be properly updated.

    I have pulled the numbers from the client database, and thrown them into a google docs spreadsheet. Alongside this, I'm able to find the base multipliers for various stats, which I am working on documenting.

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

    You can find the Omega damage modifiers on the "Omega Damage modifiers" sheet.
    Rift Datamining, dev chatter, news, and occasionally guides at The Ghar Station
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    I haven't been able to get on PTS due Glyph not being able to download it, even after fresh installs and other ideas...

    Anyway, if your data is correct, then the previous 25% damage dealt had become 38% damage dealt, or 152% of what we were doing.

    Clearly there are a lot other changes then just that, and also. Did I read also that tooltips' damage amounts are showing proper Prime-adjusted numbers now?
    Last edited by Artifa; 05-07-2018 at 09:09 PM.
    Climate
    50 Mage - Virgil

  5. #5
    Plane Walker Scourge's Avatar
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    Tooltips are accurate on pts. It seems that abilities do slightly more than the tooltip, but I haven't been able to pin down the cause (no, it's not accelerant/piercing beam).
    Focus@Vigil | 60 Mage
    Prime Storm Legion Mage Guide

  6. #6
    Plane Walker Clowd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Artifa View Post
    I haven't been able to get on PTS due Glyph not being able to download it, even after fresh installs and other ideas...

    Anyway, if your data is correct, then the previous 25% damage dealt had become 38% damage dealt, or 152% of what we were doing.

    Clearly there are a lot other changes then just that, and also. Did I read also that tooltips' damage amounts are showing proper Prime-adjusted numbers now?
    Tooltip damage amount should be accurate on prime prior to the target's own armor/resistances.

    You are correct about the 25% now being 38%. Before, we were doing 25% of the "final" damage (ish, it was applied weirdly), but this was being applied as a hidden -75% damage debuff. Now, damage is straight up multiplied by 0.38, so now we are doing 38% of the final damage completely.

    (NOTE: these are the level 50 values)
    Rift Datamining, dev chatter, news, and occasionally guides at The Ghar Station
    Chat with us at The Ghar Station Discord or visit us on twitter @TheGharStation
    Want something focused completely on Rift? Then join us over at the Heroes of Telara Discord!
    Clowd@Greybriar / Anadriel@Greybriar / Neganta@Greybriar

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