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Thread: Better Standardization for Parsing

  1. #1
    Ascendant DarkDaemon's Avatar
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    Default Better Standardization for Parsing

    Here are guidelines for parsing on the PTS:
    • Purchase the expert gear testing pack from the vendor in Allitu.
    • Remove your planar fragments and use the testing cape. It'll give you the stats you would get from average level 6 to 9 fragments.
    • Use what is provided with testing gear.
    • Right click your portrait frame and change Dungeon Difficulty to expert. Use the bear trap teleport to the Dummy Foundry in Allitu, Tempest Bay (main porticulum) or your capital city.
    • Do 5 minute parses with no preloading, consumables, or AOE for single target parses. If mana or power starved, cut off your parse at the closest minute.
    • Do AOE parses on 8 targets.
    • Record parses on ACT or the Rift Meter addon. Stop Rift Meter parses with the stop button at the end of a parse. Show your breakdown. If you want to be more elaborate, detail the number of swings of major abilities and crit rate.
    • Indicate your build and conditions in your forum post. Parses without context are less than useless.

    Remember that Archons and BMs cannot parse in the dummy foundry. BM cannot apply twin cuts while dummy foundry buffs interfere with Archon auras. If parsing BM, use Enrage every minute. It's too large of a component of your personal DPS to not use.

    Healing:

    For AOE healing, force start rift meter and look at your overhealing done to yourself. This isn't ideal, especially for specs with abilities like Pool of Restoration and Legendary Medical Facility, but it's the best you can do alone.

    Notes on how the developers can help improve the quality of parses:
    • Put an isolated dummy in Allitu
    • Add 70/72 dummies to the dummy foundry and rift store
    • Add the testing kit to the Fluffy vendor in expert mode Dummy Foundry
    • Add synergy crystals, 70 essences, a proper seal, runes and dream orbs to the testing kit. It's simply not realistic to have such deflated stats. Different souls get differing amounts of contribution from synergy crystals.
    Last edited by DarkDaemon; 01-27-2017 at 08:55 AM.

  2. #2
    Telaran Biscuitsyum's Avatar
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    The whole "parsing with identical gear/stats" that was mentioned for balancing is a horrible idea. As you say, different specs react differently as gear improves. We do need more relevant gear for testing, and it should have happened long ago
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  3. #3
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    Relying solely on player parses for balance classes is fundamentally not sound, no matter how much the players try to standardize it.

    Player skill has a huge impact on the parses - the devs should be aware of ballpark ranges for each class and balance accordingly, and handle outliers on a case by case basis.

    Going down the path suggested by Dark above can be a slippery slope - its essentially unit testing leading to design changes, and should be done in house and not by the customers.

    Especially as we've seen in the main threads, posting high parses = inviting nerf calls from everyone else.

  4. #4
    Ascendant DarkDaemon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crewcut View Post
    Going down the path suggested by Dark above can be a slippery slope - its essentially unit testing leading to design changes, and should be done in house and not by the customers.
    These aren't standards that I'm suggesting. They're standards already asked for by our class developers.

    Right now, only parses from alpha testers are truly taken into much consideration. It's because they're the only parses that are well standardized. Perhaps if more players parsed in comparable conditions, we'll have more data and better balance.
    Last edited by DarkDaemon; 01-15-2017 at 06:42 PM.

  5. #5
    Prophet of Telara Hepatits's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkDaemon View Post
    Perhaps if more players parsed in comparable conditions, we'll have more data and better balance.
    Yes, we need more people parsing in the standard format so we can have a baseline for specs.
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crewcut View Post
    Relying solely on player parses for balance classes is fundamentally not sound, no matter how much the players try to standardize it.

    Player skill has a huge impact on the parses - the devs should be aware of ballpark ranges for each class and balance accordingly, and handle outliers on a case by case basis.

    Going down the path suggested by Dark above can be a slippery slope - its essentially unit testing leading to design changes, and should be done in house and not by the customers.

    Especially as we've seen in the main threads, posting high parses = inviting nerf calls from everyone else.
    We the players are very good at breaking specs. There are way more of us than there are alpha testers. Anything we can do to provide data to the devs will help the balancing.

    Having a standard format is important also. Two players of equal skill(or even the same player) with vastly different gear, such as fragments, can have a big difference in numbers. Parse length is a factor also. You can have great crit RNG for 2 minutes of a 3 minute parse and your dps will be much higher than if you have bad RNG. Longer parses lessen the difference between good and bad RNG as it's very unlikely you'll have 5 minutes of great/horrible RNG.

  7. #7
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    Players may be good at breaking specs, but they may not be necessarily the best at reporting them for game development, altruistically.

    Look around the forums and history - how many players have reported over the top specs themselves, in a timely manner?

    Many dont report them, and if they do, its delayed and crouched in defensive language.
    Not many players would come out and post OP specs and parses as soon as they experience them because they know it would lead to nerfs (rightly so) but self preservation is a strong force.
    More reports are from players playing other classes primarily.

    All I'm saying is parsing, standardized parsing and the extra effort being undertaken to provide a seemingly level field is good, but dont make this the sole foundation to balance classes upon.

    Asking players to identify (and therefore give up) OP specs can be potentially counter intuitive when the said player's main motivation will be personal, versus a Trion employee who is bound to balance the game, for the benefit of the company.

  8. #8
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    When I was asked to test on the PTS, I was told to take my frags off, put the cape on and the expert gear from the vendor.
    When I asked about essences and crystal, I was told to use whatever I wanted.... So what do you guys use with respect to essences Dark? Probably best just to use no focus at all. But then, that's not really testing since you're missing out on a lot of CP.

    Also I'm fairly certain there was mention in some patch notes that there was a solo dummy put into Alittu but I'm yet to find it.
    Last edited by Archyface; 01-15-2017 at 09:54 PM.
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  9. #9
    Ascendant DarkDaemon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archyface View Post
    When I was asked to test on the PTS, I was told to take my frags off, put the cape on and the expert gear from the vendor.

    When I asked about essences and crystal, I was told to use whatever I wanted.... So what do you guys use with respect to essences Dark? Probably best just to use no focus at all. But then, that's not really testing since you're missing out on a lot of CP.

    Also I'm fairly certain there was mention in some patch notes that there was a solo dummy put into Alittu but I'm yet to find it.
    He wants us to use the test box gear, so a level 65 sigil and seal, no runes, and no synergy crystal.

    That's not really realistic though, which is the purpose of the second part of my post. Parses would be better if we used actual 70 essences, runes and a proper synergy crystal.

  10. #10
    Rift Chaser qUiXui's Avatar
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    Standard for parsing: Dont bother.

    Keyens said on the live stream that player parses wont be considered anyway.
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  11. #11
    Plane Touched BigTerj's Avatar
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    I like the attempt at standardizing the parsing and hope the devs take Darks' suggestions into serious consideration.

    The game is complex with so many variables and interactions that it's unlikely any single person can account for them all, which is why there should be a professional grade simulation software plowing through builds/specs 24/7 to ensure class balance. From the last livestream I gathered they they utilize some form of spreadsheet for class balance. Cheap-yes, efficient-somewhat, effective-not really. I'm no fool, designing testing tools is expensive and time consuming, so I doubt that will ever happen, but if they really wanted to tackle class balance they'd need to bite the bullet. Heck, it could even turn into a revenue stream if they made a good enough product and licensed it to other gaming companies.
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crewcut View Post

    Player skill has a huge impact on the parses - the devs should be aware of ballpark ranges for each class and balance accordingly, and handle outliers on a case by case basis.
    .
    something to eliminate variables such as what dark suggested isn't a terrible idea there were a couple discussions similar to this in the beta mage section in the hopes of finding whats broken and what feels to be a healthy level.

    including breakdowns would account for player skill in the sense that if you see an integral ability with a low percentage on one person's parse but a large contributor on another's well then you know its player skill and not a broken ability per say. also maybe different skill levels is good for testing specs as it will allow development to see where skill cap modifications to be made so average joe with his 1 button macro isnt doing more dps than an established muscle memory rotation which utilizes soul and ability synergy purely because an rng legendary hit 4 times and crit for one but didnt crit or act legendary for the other. it would be refreshing to see specs reward complexity with top dps and the easier plug into a macro ones just be mediocre.

    my issue with the devs shutting out aid like this as someone said "keyens mentioned player parses wont be taken into account" that just screams poor choice to me. players are used on beta to test and break things as a free QA to help progress development. i cant imagine the alpha test squad,however large that is, being able to be anywhere near as productive as if all pts players were able to contribute something.

    its my opinion that any help to move production along more efficiently should be welcomed with open arms. the faster acceptable class balance can be achieved will result in more hands on deck for producing content, after-all how long can you expect players to support minimal progression?
    Last edited by makerofwidows; 01-18-2017 at 02:09 AM.

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