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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: OFFICIAL FEEDBACK: Public Test Server Balance changes, PART II

  1.   Click here to go to the next Rift Team post in this thread.   #1
    Director of Community Relations TrionBrasse's Avatar
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    Default OFFICIAL FEEDBACK: Public Test Server Balance changes, PART II

    We are restarting the original thread here as Part II:
    - an official feedback thread on the PTS balance changes.
    - Current PTS changes can be found here.
    - NOT for balance on live servers.


    - You don't have to back up your opinions on PTS balance changes and you sure don't need to argue with each other about them. We consider everyone's opinion valid for the purposes of this thread... plus, no one wins an argument on the internet, ever. =)

    - We DO need straight up gut feel responses as well as well-reasoned veteran analysis, but only from people testing these on the PTS. Fun? Gimped? Boring? Exciting?

    - We definitely do not need people bickering the finer points, because different approaches and different playstyles will always provide different results.

    - We have collected all relevant feedback from the previous thread, so no need to repost your thoughts in Part II. =)

    Fair warning, I am going to flag any needling needling posts for removal in the new thread, because they distract from the feedback and make it hard for Dev to read through.
    Please don't take this personally, we just need to keep the thread on track in order to be useful. Constructive argument is just fine in general threads on the forums!

    ;-)#
    Brasse
    Last edited by TrionBrasse; 12-23-2016 at 11:21 AM.

  2. #2
    Telaran MakeClericsGreatAgain's Avatar
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    Default Mage Changes.

    Hello, id like to talk about Elementalist and Warlock

    Warlock - I absolutely fell in love with this soul. And I think its on a lot of peoples favorite list for sure. I have a blast playing this soul any chance I get - the one thing that I take away from testing it out on PTS in open world and on Raid boss dummy (after the latest changes) is that I will not be able to be competitive with it at all anymore. It had some crazy strong bursts before recent patch for sure but it definitely dies down very fast over a course of the fight -------- To me warlock on PTS feels very weak right now and unpleasant to play due to the 70% dot dmg reduction across the board. It doesn't feel competitive at all, when it is so weak compared to a lot of other souls
    I feel like this damage over time style soul should be able to do really good dmg. I don't feel it should have ridiculous bursts - it should have the best sustained and long term dmg due to its nature and play style. it should be rewarded more and more as the fight goes on longer. I would love to see it have weak burst that builds up into a monster that it is meant to be.

    Elementalist - Very fun and capable soul, synergizes very well with pyro. Yes I understand why it was ripped apart and rebalanced on PTS and you know what I can probably live with most of those changes xD , But one thing that takes away from it being FUN, which used to be that warm feeling you get after your ELEMENTAL BURST goes off all the way and is a crit. I don't get that excitement anymore because Elemental burst feels very very weak. and When you get that 1 in 5 chance of it not echoing at all and its a non crit-> you have a spell that does half the dmg of the Normal version which isn't right to call legendary in any way. When this happens I find this extremely demoralizing when you lose that gamble once during the fight... sometimes even twice during the fight if the stars don't line up lol. You are left with your top performing burst spell doing literally nothing at all... its a failed firecracker Is what it is. I would love to see some sort of guarantee or some sort of slightly bigger payoff from using this legendary version... right now its just not fun to gamble with even at 80% chance to echo which can be cut short and do almost nothing.

    I would love to see Necro come into the picture as well. I think there is some really good potential and enjoyment to be had if this was a viable soul. I can imagine playing around with different builds for it that work really well with warlock / elementalist.
    Last edited by MakeClericsGreatAgain; 12-23-2016 at 11:54 AM.

  3. #3
    Sword of Telara Orochan's Avatar
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    I'll post more as I get more time, but for now :

    Cleric

    Shaman - Shaman actually feels really good for the first time IMO. Most of it's problems are pvp related, but I can accept that some souls just will never do well in terms of pvp, and that's okay. The only clunky parts of shaman IMO are that it still doesn't have the flexibility of off soul options ( shamans are still basically left with two off soul choices, druid, and inq ) because of how the talent pattern of violence works. If that could be changed to reduce the CD of massive blow with any attack, not just weapon attacks, it would open the shaman soul up more for it's off soul choices.

    The other clunky part, is the snare. It should be OGCD, and have it's duration match it's CD, like warlords. Pretty simple change tbh, much needed in pvp. Or it should have another effect attached to it. It's current version is pretty useless in pvp, and sees absolutely no use in PvE.

    Legendary icy blow I feel was nerfed to make clerics spec into legendary glacial shield, but that makes no sense, I will explain.

    The shaman tree for legendaries currently looks like this :

    Furious blow/deep freeze = perfect. They feel outstanding, and truly powerful. +1

    Crushing blow = good for what it's supposed to be, an off soul legendary. Again, perfect. +1

    Glacial shield/icy blow = Clunky, non-interesting, damage boosters. That's it. Not only that, glacial shield is low enough that it's supposed to be a hybrid legendary right? So it should not be more powerful than the icy blow legendary, Idk why it's even buffing jolt, it just doesn't make sense.

    Make icy blow legendary give a passive chance for jolt to proc up to 4 times or something, idk. Then rework glacial shield into something else, I can't think of any cleric hybrid that will choose glacial shield legendary. As I said, it just feels really out of place, and so does icy blow.

    Other than that, shaman feels really good IMO. +1 to the devs!

    Edit : MAJOR BUG Legendary furious assault is going back to the normal version if you die in a warfront. Switching souls and back fixes this though, but that's highly annoying. Please fix.


    Inquisitor -
    Legendary BoJ needs an ICD of 2secs or 3secs, with an ICD of 6secs, all you've done is make people opt into legendary sanction heretic instead as that's now the clearly superior legendary. Legendaries should allow players choices, not bottle neck them into picking the best.

    Also this goes back to shaman, but since shamans usually spec into inq/druid for top dps, speccing into legendary sanction heretic means we are forced to delay our massive blow, because the talent pattern of violence only works with weapon attacks. I cannot stress enough how even if it's a dps gain, it still feels like a dps loss whenever a shaman is forced to delay their massive blow CD because they have to use a spell instead of a weapon attack. AFAIK only clerics have this problem.

    Oracle - Legendary insignia of blood should get the same treatment as legendary BoJ. It rarely procs atm, and doesn't feel well...legendary lol.

    Legendary alacrity is pretty useless now, I don't really see why any cleric would pick it anymore, clerics don't get many hybrid options anyways, so legendary alacrity was strictly used for the RS hybrid spec, but that spec was vastly over performing so I knew the nerf was coming. Just putting it out there that maybe legendary alacrity should have something else going for it, otherwise I just don't see anyone picking it ever.

    Defiler - I knew miserly affliction was getting nerfed, I am fine with it. Defiler's problems lie in that it feels like an incomplete soul, it has a lot of flat out useless abilities that weren't looked at/updated with it's rework.

    Edit : My suggestion for icy blow is to have it so all physical attacks give the 12% bonus to air/water damage, stacks up to four times. This would fit perfectly for shaman and it's rotation tbh.

    Edit 2: Can we also please remove the pvp damage reduction on massive blow? It does not hit hard at all in pvp for the risk required to use it. There are several ranged attacks that hit way harder than massive blow, yet don't receive any sort of pvp damage reduction. AFAIK massive blow is the only MELEE skill that has a specific pvp damage reduction on it.


    Primalist

    Dervish - First off dervish is super fun, but it has some rather glaring problems. I really don't like how air cutter is not used at all anymore. Lashing wind ends up doing more damage and it buffs aftershock by 20% AND it applies twisted soul minor in pvp. This is a case of legendary abilities making a skill completely obsolete.

    Subduction is another, rather obsolete skill in the dervish's tool kit. I'm almost positive it's a dps loss if you put it in your rotation once you attain the legendaries that beef up after shock. Even with the 4sec CD on sub 30% hp enemies.

    Seismic smash is yet -another- skill made obsolete by dervish legendaries.

    Pretty much, even after the nerfs, mostly anything outside of Tectonic Spike > Lashing wind > After Shock > repeat is a dps loss. I will touch on vorpal salvo later, as it's definitely going to be in the dervish rotation now.

    So to me, that's my biggest issues with dervish, so many skills are just made obsolete once you take the appropiate dervish legendaries. These skills are literally not in my rotation, not on my hotbar, they never see any use anymore.

    My second biggest issues is I just do not want to look at that damn avatar anymore LOL. It's goofy looking, it's not cool, and it sits weird, like the snake head droops down into my char's chest (I play a bahmi so that could be it) I really wish we could just get fluff avatar spells that let us pick the avatars we want to show, I know that might cause some issues in pvp, but I feel anyone paying attention enough will know right away what spec a primalist is using anyways.

    Dervish really suffers from just way too many damaging abilities that conflict with each other. Even the 31 point channel feels out of place, and it doesn't make me want to spec into full dervish, I'd rather go hybrid with vulcanist or maelstrom because full dervish just feels so conflicted. I have a handful of damage abilities, of which I'll only use 3, the other 5 or so, never get used! Not good.

    Lastly spirit wind just is not healing enough. It needs to be scaled up to SFP levels, but I'd rather you fix all of the above first lol. Dervish is -really- fun, and I love how much aftershock hits for now, and I love the relation between aftershock and lashing wind combined with the avatar legendary. I just wish it didn't make all these other abilities obsolete.

    Will post more about primalist later.
    Last edited by Orochan; 12-26-2016 at 09:10 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Samuraii View Post
    Did you see any cleric in that pic?
    How come not if get got the op faeri?

  4. #4
    Plane Touched arbaal's Avatar
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    Default PTS locked

    PTS is up but currently locked. Request to unlock

    Edit: Looks like PTS is unlocked now. Thank you
    Last edited by arbaal; 12-23-2016 at 01:52 PM.

  5. #5
    Plane Touched arbaal's Avatar
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    Default Nightblade

    Right now 61 Nightblade is dominated by roughly 21s of spamming a finisher for approximately 50% of a rogues DPS due to how the current 61 legendary Dark Descent works. This does not lead to engaging game play at all, and feels very similar to how original Ranger's legendary Animalism determined the soul to be played.

    Please note these are just my suggestions I think, if done could benefit the whole soul and be more impactful in regards to how the soul is played today. Any percentages can be tuned accordingly of course

    Legendary Dark Descent - 45s CD, next 5 finishers do not consume CP. After effect ends you deal 30% more fire and death damage and emptiness stacks not consumed for 15s.promotes actually using the souls abilities

    Legendary Fiery Spike - make OGCD w/ 8s CD and up physical damage taken by target 1o 15%. It will also help make it a more relevant off soul choice for SIN, Sab, and BD main souls

    Legendary Flame Blitz - base damage on legendary needs to be upped by about 25%. bonus effect if 5 stacks on target upped to 50%. this would keep it relevant before execute where blazing strike and flame thrust would over take it due to bonus and make this the preferred finisher if in melee over blazingthrust prior to 30% sub where you would want to change up using Blazing for execute bonus. Please note Flame Blitz also does not benefit from Nightrage buff provided by Dusk to Dawn which makes Blazing Strike and Flame Thurst hit 20% harder

    Legendary Dusk Strike - reduce penalty from 15% energy per stack down to 10% (like normal)

    Dusk to Dawn - Nightrage buff now applies to Flame Blitz

    Melted Skin - increases dmg by 4%/8% (up from 3%/5%)

    Scourge of Darkness - increase dmg of ability by 10/20/30/40/50% based off CP

    Hellfire Blades / Smoldering Blades / Ebon Blades - now 50% chance to proc (make this baseline equivalent to sin poison proc rate)

    Primal Death - applies to all Death abilities (changed from just Dusk and Primal strikes, we have death from the shadows, dusk to dawn, scourge of darkness, touch of darkness that would benefit from.. possibly promote some SB synergy)

    Unstable State - increase values to 3/6/9% (up from 2/4/6%)

    Fire and Death Attunement - add to existing your Fire and Death damaging abilities are increased by an additional 3/6/9%

    Enhanced Weapon Enchantments - change to 30/60/90% (up from 20/40/60%)

  6. #6
    King of Slackers
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    Warrior:

    61 Riftblade - Gimped

    61 Tempest - Exciting

    61 Reaver - Gimped

    61 Paragon - Boring
    Keepro - King of Slackers - NewHorizons
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  7. #7
    Rift Chaser ChamberDown's Avatar
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    Assassin - Feels really good - still could use a DPS bump

    Shadeborn - Decent feel, but I'd like to see this shifted to fit 2-3 target DPS role, nerf the ST

    Nightblade - I think, just as in NT, it needs to have its sustained bumped up, after the 60s burst is over its kind of lackluster

    Marksman - feels good, I'd like it if Empowered Shot had like a 6s CD and its damage was upped to compensate, having to constantly spam is kind of annoying. Damage probably needs to come down quite a bit still.

    Ranger - does ok, latest changes seem to move its dps down quite a bit, I think for solo play and open world type stuff it works great

    Bladedancer - needs to have its AoE reeled in, the reason it was great before was because that burst was ridiculously awesome, but now, you can have almost 100% up time on the AoE, and you CAN have 100% up time on the two dances. This should be balanced more with sab

    Saboteur - behind Bladedancer currently, which I'm ok with, because I feel like Sab has much too much to do. I like the new mechanics, I just think there may be to many of them with too much guess work, like rampup time on the damage bonus, and having to use chemical bomb at 10 stacks because if it goes over it does less damage. Not a lot of fun if you ask me. I'd put a cap on the chemical charges so when they hit cap, you can fire, or hold it and still do max damage when you hit it. I'd also make the damage buff cooldown give a flat percentage over a flat duration, no ramp up stuff. Those changes themselves would likely make it a bit easier to play, while maintaining some complexity in the other skills.
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  8. #8
    Ascendant DarkDaemon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by keepor View Post
    Warrior:

    61 Riftblade - Gimped

    61 Tempest - Exciting

    61 Reaver - Gimped

    61 Paragon - Boring
    Brevity is the soul of wit.

  9. #9
    Rift Disciple
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    As far as mage goes:

    If the aim for DPS specs is to do 250k DPS then job is done for pyro and harb, the rest of the specs need a bit of a bump up, if the DPS target is over 250k then all mage specs fell gimped and need a buff.

    Pyro:
    Not at all fun and clunky. feels like there is too much going on yet nothing seems to work properly, runs out of mana so fast that not even potions can save it. firestorm in the real world sucks due to being unable to time it except using other abilities as markers and a huge mana drain / dps loss if the target moves, with the damage reduction i would love to see it changed to work in a similar way to stormcallers storm locus and be a pulsing dot on a target rather than GTAE when taking the legendary, it also needs a serious mana reduction otherwise forget 3 minutes worth of mana if you have to reapply more than once every 30 seconds.

    Harbringer:
    This has always been a mage favourite for most people behind warlock, the new changes make it feel a bit weird with the fact you have to use a healing spell in your main spam rotation to do decent dps, which has a different GCD to the rest of the spec and gives no charge.

    Warlock:
    Sorta fun to play if you are into the whole min maxxing dots kinda thing. damage feels really far behind atm 20% less than harb and pyro.

    Elementalist:
    feels like a huge gamble everytime you hit your cooldowns this makes it not much fun and dps goes up and down like a yo yo. the 61 point legendary is a joke and designed to synergise with the rest of the spec however taking 61 points in the soul and using it is a dps loss even compared to gimped elemental forces and firestorm. the way it is now, there is no incentive to not use the spec as a hybrid it is about 10% behind using as a hybrid and almost 20% behind using it with full 61 points.

    Stormcaller:
    fun to play but useless anywhere outside of open world onslaughts and the fortress seige.

    Dominator:
    It was fun to play but now feel so gimped into the floor and most of the tools in the spec are kinda useless even in pvp atm.

    Necromancer:
    This is the least fun mage spec by far due to clunky mechanics, taking the legendary for cooldown reduction makes the spec so bizarre to play and the damage is so low i dont see anyone ever using this spec.

    Things i hate with mage ATM:
    Legendary Galvanic Strike, being forced into putting points into a tank soul in every DPS spec sucks, there is no way to tell how much of a buff it is actually giving at the time of cast other than looking at your charge bar.

    Mana usage in pyro

    Legendary piercing beam only doing 50% of the buff the tooltip indicates.
    Last edited by DammitBilly; 12-23-2016 at 05:42 PM. Reason: adding things i hate

  10. #10
    RIFT Guide Writer Maltie's Avatar
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    https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...it?usp=sharing

    For rogues.

    Its not finished yet (still have 4 of the souls left)

    Let me know if you have anything to add or think my ideas are stupid! (But say it in a nice way and be constructive please!)
    Nixia@Greybriar (and Laethys)

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    09:20 Gelb@Deepwood: 54233HPS | Nixia 15381 | Funka 8407 |

  11. #11
    Rift Disciple Cenderze's Avatar
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    Are the hotloaded changes in addition to the previous in the thread linked or were the previous greatly redone? For MM rogues for instance, is RFS still increased by 65 %?
    Garash@Zaviel
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  12. #12
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    1 button tempest is an issue that needs to be addressed, it is doing way too much damage for it only being 1 button (and by taking our Sergeants Order it could do even more dps) . The easiest "fix" I can think of is to not allow shock pulse to trigger WL's CDR. Possibly nerf storm torrent/LT as well. If anyone needs a parse for it just hit me up.
    Last edited by Aayden; 12-24-2016 at 01:46 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Klutch817 View Post
    "I don't like what you're saying, so I'mma get triggered and shame you somehow." ~RIFT Forums, 2016

  13. #13
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aayden View Post
    1 button tempest is an issue that needs to be addressed, it is doing way too much damage for it only being 1 button (and by taking our Sergeants Order it could do even more dps) . The easiest "fix" I can think of is to not allow shock pulse to trigger WL's CDR. Possibly nerf storm torrent/LT as well. If anyone needs a parse for it just hit me up.
    Even though you can play it 1 button, it will never do the same amount of dmg played optimally.

    I think the changes are refreshing and should not be nerf'd before it even gets live. There are no real other options for warriors in PvP to take on other ranged players.

    Too many people trying to get warriors nerf'd, let's start looking at other classes with those nerf bats first.
    Martimar@Seastone
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Martimars View Post
    Even though you can play it 1 button, it will never do the same amount of dmg played optimally.

    I think the changes are refreshing and should not be nerf'd before it even gets live. There are no real other options for warriors in PvP to take on other ranged players.

    Too many people trying to get warriors nerf'd, let's start looking at other classes with those nerf bats first.
    I know it won't ever do the same amount of dps as regular tempest, but 1 button is doing more dps than every other warrior spec at the moment.
    Last edited by Aayden; 12-24-2016 at 03:28 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Klutch817 View Post
    "I don't like what you're saying, so I'mma get triggered and shame you somehow." ~RIFT Forums, 2016

  15. #15
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    Despite my excitement about the balance changes brought to various classes on PTS i am very worried that mage is currently undertuned and will not perform very well in a raid environment.
    Warlock for example, a soul which prices itself for its unique gameplay and is supposed to reward the player for their inventive playstyle does not feel very rewarding nor is it very useful having its dps fall off by such a wide margin.

    The main problem with warlock on live is currently their unrivaled strength in pvp, having the ability to spread fully buffed dots to a group of players, all if which will receive 100% bonus damage from the legendary version of Void Barrage. The amount of damage done to targets affected by radiate death is comparable to the damage done to the player's main target, making it very easy to for the warlock to bring the entire enemy team down and allow for their team to kill any low targets. This creates the potential for stacking warlocks to annihilate even the most skilled of players. There is just so much that a healer can heal.

    Having this in mind i would like to propose that warlock's ability to damage multiple targets with the same damage multiplier gets an adjustment, making it desirable for the warlock to choose the right targets instead of mindlessly spreading dots on everything that moves.


    To address this imbalance in pvp while maintaining warlocks usability in pve i would suggest that Void Barrage puts a debuff on its target that increases damage done by damage over time effects by X percent. It can also be a stacking debuff that increases damage by 10% per dot to allow a for skilled healer to counteract the warlock's damage cleansing their dots and reducing the damage multiplayer. This will bring warlock's damage in pvp to an acceptable level as well allow them to be useful in a raid environment.
    Last edited by nuttertools; 12-25-2016 at 04:43 AM.

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