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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: Tank Threat changes

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    Default Tank Threat changes

    Hi all,

    We've changed how the level 40 Tank soul Threat passives function on PTS. Instead of generating extra aggro on damaging attacks, the passives now increase the tank's aggro multiplier based on how much Endurance the tank has.

    This change should provide at least equivalent threat to the current iteration of the passive for max-level characters in dungeon-quality gear. It will provide greater threat as tanks improve their gear. If you notice anything awry with your threat generation on Tank-spec'ed characters on PTS, please let us know in the thread below!
    Jeff "Red Hawk" Hamilton
    Senior Systems Designer - Rift

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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Hawk View Post
    Hi all,

    We've changed how the level 40 Tank soul Threat passives function on PTS. Instead of generating extra aggro on damaging attacks, the passives now increase the tank's aggro multiplier based on how much Endurance the tank has.
    Do you want to break warrior tanking? Because this is how you break warrior tanking.

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    Ascendant Holyroller12's Avatar
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    I actually created a thread in regard to threat problems a while back hoping for it to be addressed. I suppose this is a good start http://forums.riftgame.com/game-disc...g-classes.html

    I do have a question though. Does this mean someone in roughly equivalent, but slightly higher gear quality than me will be ripping threat from me or does the endurance difference have to be pretty significant for that to happen? I have a few backup tanks who have been extremely lucky with tank gear dropping so they even out gear me and have far more endurance so i'm a litlte concerned if that's the case :X

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaosbringer12 View Post
    I do have a question though. Does this mean someone in roughly equivalent, but slightly higher gear quality than me will be ripping threat from me or does the endurance difference have to be pretty significant for that to happen?
    Without taunts, in most cases you shouldn't be losing threat to another tank unless a) you're not maintaining as much threat as you can given the spells you have available, b) they outgear you by a significant margin, or c) they are going balls-to-the-wall with every ability they can that generates threat.

    In my case recently, I have noticed that I can pull threat from another tank on a single-target fight if I unleash absolutely everything that I can in order to do as much dps as possible. The tanks I was ripping aggro from weren't doing it wrong nor is our gear vastly different, it was the way that I was approaching it. After trying different 'rotations' if you like, I figured out the abilities that were causing the issue, and using them differently or saving them for times where I had aggro and my threat wasn't an issue.

    Regardless, if other tanks are stealing threat when you should have the boss, check that you're doing the most that you can to maintain threat, and if you are, then ask them to back the hell off. Tank DPS is nice, but it's generally not going to make or break a fight. Endurance alone won't guarantee that you always have threat when you're supposed to. Again, make sure you're maintaining as much threat where need be, and other tanks need to be aware of what's going on rather than just dumping everything on the boss if it starts causing issues.
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    Ascendant Holyroller12's Avatar
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    None of what you said really applies to me or anyone else with the issue for the most part. I'm sure there are people who just aren't tanking properly. The point is that certain tank classes don't really even have to try to rip threat from others... they just do effortlessly. Re-check the link I posted.

    My question specifically pertains to this new upcoming change. As stated "the passives now increase the tank's aggro multiplier based on how much Endurance the tank has." so I wanted to know if tanks with more endurance than others will be ripping threat from others without really even trying as is currently the problem. If that's the case then the issue will be the same, but just have a different cause now..
    Last edited by Holyroller12; 05-30-2015 at 11:06 AM.

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    It seems like a very good idea to have more threat based on endurance than damage.

    As a Warrior i mainly use VK to tank and i know VK has a good dps. As this change will move threat from dps to endurance, it seem logical that VK will gain less threat from this change than other classes and i would be fine with it if VK wasnt already low in threat generation compared to other classes.

    If you're sure that it will be a threat increase even for VK then i have nothing againts this change. I still think VK could get a little increase in his thread generation along with this change to be on par with other classes (maybe a small increase in surge threat).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaosbringer12 View Post
    None of what you said really applies to me or anyone else with the issue for the most part. I'm sure there are people who just aren't tanking properly. The point is that certain tank classes don't really even have to try to rip threat from others... they just do effortlessly. Re-check the link I posted.

    My question specifically pertains to this new upcoming change. As stated "the passives now increase the tank's aggro multiplier based on how much Endurance the tank has." so I wanted to know if tanks with more endurance than others will be ripping threat from others without really even trying as is currently the problem. If that's the case then the issue will be the same, but just have a different cause now..
    Reading through that thread, I think Sedvick had some very pertinent information. I tank on my cleric and my warrior, though my cleric is my main, and I've experienced it to some extent. Whether it's the up front initial few seconds of a fight or later on, perhaps just as the 3s forced attack from the other tank's taunt is wearing off, a double 7 conviction hammer from a cleric can often rip agro, especially against a warrior which takes a bit longer to generate solid threat comparatively.

    I imagine this particular change is being made in response to sidekicking being introduced into the game. Sidekicked characters are just never going to produce anywhere near the damage, especially in tank souls and gear, of the real-level equivalents.

    But as far as same level tons with different endurance, you shouldn't see aggro just randomly getting ripped off if both tanks are doing things normally unless there is a pretty drastic gear difference. And if there is, like say one tank is fully t2 geared and the other in dungeon blues with no runes, then ignoring the question of why the drastic difference in tank gear, the more geared tank can just hold off more when they aren't active.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Melandria View Post
    It seems like a very good idea to have more threat based on endurance than damage.

    As a Warrior i mainly use VK to tank and i know VK has a good dps. As this change will move threat from dps to endurance, it seem logical that VK will gain less threat from this change than other classes and i would be fine with it if VK wasnt already low in threat generation compared to other classes.

    If you're sure that it will be a threat increase even for VK then i have nothing againts this change. I still think VK could get a little increase in his thread generation along with this change to be on par with other classes (maybe a small increase in surge threat).
    Ravaging Strike has X Threat modifier on it.

    Right now hitting with Ravaging strike does (DAMAGE*X) +Y threat.

    The change aims for ( DAMAGE ) * (X+Y)

    At least that's how I see it from Red Hawk's wording. If so... VK having sick deeps will get a good boost from this.
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    RIFT Guide Writer Muspel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Repster View Post
    Ravaging Strike has X Threat modifier on it.

    Right now hitting with Ravaging strike does (DAMAGE*X) +Y threat.

    The change aims for ( DAMAGE ) * (X+Y)

    At least that's how I see it from Red Hawk's wording. If so... VK having sick deeps will get a good boost from this.
    Actually, it should be multiplicative, not additive, like most threat modifiers. So it would be damage * X * Y.

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    Eh, Either way. Dosen't matter if it's Dmg* (X+End) or (Dmg * X * End). That's still going to end up a hellava lot more threat for VK then (Dmg * X) + End
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaosbringer12 View Post
    I actually created a thread in regard to threat problems a while back hoping for it to be addressed. I suppose this is a good start http://forums.riftgame.com/game-disc...g-classes.html

    I do have a question though. Does this mean someone in roughly equivalent, but slightly higher gear quality than me will be ripping threat from me or does the endurance difference have to be pretty significant for that to happen? I have a few backup tanks who have been extremely lucky with tank gear dropping so they even out gear me and have far more endurance so i'm a litlte concerned if that's the case :X
    The threat bonus from this new implementation scales linearly with Endurance. Each point of Endurance is worth .0002 Aggro multiplier. So, if you're in roughly the same gear level as another tank but with different stat distributions such that one of you has slightly more End than the other, your relative threat bonuses will be very close to each others' and should not result in the higher END tank inevitably ripping threat from the lower END tank.
    Last edited by Red Hawk; 06-01-2015 at 01:40 PM.
    Jeff "Red Hawk" Hamilton
    Senior Systems Designer - Rift

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    Quote Originally Posted by Melandria View Post
    It seems like a very good idea to have more threat based on endurance than damage.

    As a Warrior i mainly use VK to tank and i know VK has a good dps. As this change will move threat from dps to endurance, it seem logical that VK will gain less threat from this change than other classes and i would be fine with it if VK wasnt already low in threat generation compared to other classes.

    If you're sure that it will be a threat increase even for VK then i have nothing againts this change. I still think VK could get a little increase in his thread generation along with this change to be on par with other classes (maybe a small increase in surge threat).
    To be clear, the current level 40 passives proc threat on the target of any damaging attack each time you damage them. The amount of threat that they proc is a function of your Endurance. So, I'm not changing the dynamic (Stack End, Get Threat), but I am changing the mechanic by which it is implemented. A.) the threat bonus from the new passive applies to everything you do, including threat from heals, taunts, and positioning, rather than just to damaging attacks. B.) the threat bonus from the new passive is now actually passive, rather than triggering new ability activations each time you deal damage (this is better for our servers).

    We are also investigating threat disparities between Warriors and other tanks, but wanted to roll this out separately ahead of time so that we only change one threat variable at a time.
    Jeff "Red Hawk" Hamilton
    Senior Systems Designer - Rift

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    Rift Chaser Electrah's Avatar
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    Sweet, thanks for that explanation, Red Hawk !
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    Hmm time to come test on PTS again.
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    Any chance of you putting in a threat list? So that we can create a threat monitor? So we can test it?

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