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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: Rift is officially PaytoWin

  1. #331
    Ascendant mo0trix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RogueUnseen View Post
    As Daglar has stated, there is no way that we will all agree on what P2W is. When you look at what he said in regards to needing to earn the best gear in the game, it makes sense. You need to earn the rep to buy the essences and cape with in game currency or cash either way. Yes there are potions that increase rep gain, but you are still required to put in some amount of time to get it.
    .
    Daglar also stated that no single piece of equipment on the shop that is purchasable would be best in slot. These essences are best in slot. If they go live.. well, Daglar has to resign... he promised as much on the stream

  2. #332
    Telaran LuxRhapsodia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rounded View Post
    I will just paste the list I had few pages back and add numbers next to it:
    Following BiS items are up for Credits:
    Epic Raid Synergy crystals - 9 in total
    Highest reputation level lesser essences form Lycini and Torvan - for 1 spec alone, this is 6, for 2 specs, this is 12 total
    Highest reputation level capes from Torvan - 1 per spec, 2 total
    Token Tablets of all levels - 1
    6-slot source machines (incl. BoP and BoA machines) - 2 in total
    Planar focus runes - 6 in total
    Freelancer's lesser essences - 6 in total

    This is more than a few items, I'd call that more than 3 dozens.

    It's silly to even dare try to count synergy crystals because those have absolutely no effect unless you have the raid gear to compliment them and I HIGHLY doubt anyone gives a single care about those being in the cash shop. Same with Source Machines
    Last edited by LuxRhapsodia; 05-23-2013 at 07:36 AM.

  3. #333
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rounded View Post
    Highest reputation level lesser essences form Lycini and Torvan - for 1 spec alone, this is 6, for 2 specs, this is 12 total
    I am very sure that for both tanks and DPS the best in slot essences come from both vendor and raid rifts.
    So not all of the essences are bis.
    I do agree they should nip tha problem in the bud before it hits live.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rounded View Post
    Highest reputation level capes from Torvan - 1 per spec, 2 total
    All the best in sot capes were from raid bosses.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rounded View Post
    Token Tablets of all levels - 1
    Agreed it needs to be removed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rounded View Post
    6-slot source machines (incl. BoP and BoA machines) - 2 in total
    Not sure why you would count source machines.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rounded View Post
    Freelancer's lesser essences - 6 in total
    Not best in slot.
    Warlord Essences are in the game and have been since SL was released, but can't be bought right now.
    Same for the Warlord seal.
    So they may be releasing that stuff in 2.3

  4. #334
    Ascendant Rounded's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LuxRhapsodia View Post
    It's silly to even dare try to count synergy crystals because those have absolutely no effect unless you have the raid gear to compliment them and I HIGHLY doubt anyone gives a single care about those being in the cash shop. Same with Source Machines
    I'd disagree on source machines being useless without raid gear.

    This is just going into mindless banter about small details. Daglar said no BiS gear in store, there are multiple BiS items for real money. These 2 points don't match.

  5. #335
    Plane Walker DaCommando's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rounded View Post
    I will just paste the list I had few pages back and add numbers next to it:
    Following BiS items are up for Credits:
    Epic Raid Synergy crystals - 9 in total
    Highest reputation level lesser essences form Lycini and Torvan - for 1 spec alone, this is 6, for 2 specs, this is 12 total
    Highest reputation level capes from Torvan - 1
    Swirling infinity particles
    Token Tablets of all levels
    6-slot source machines (incl. BoP and BoA machines)
    Planar focus runes
    Freelancer's lesser essences
    150% mounts
    32-slot bag (13,8 Eur, this should be discarded form the list as there needs to be a way to rip money off of idiots in every game)
    You are confusing something here. P2W is that you Pay real money to acquire an item, that is BiS, and othewise impossible, or on some lvl, hard to get.

    Mentioning stuff like the 7500 planarite Sigil, 150% mounts, bags doenst constitute as Pay to win.

    u mentioned planar focus runes, u do understand that Resistances in this game are completely useless, let them be offered on the cash shop, would love to c who wastes money on that.

    The swirling particle, thats the 500p item to upgrade to relic, rite?
    If you dont kill crucia/regulos, what good is it to you? The item on its own is worthless without 2 crucial pieces, the weapon it self and the heart of 1 of the dragons. (if a person cant afford 500p to buy it, what makes u think that he/she wont resort to buying plat from farmers to get it? what difference is that from being on Cash shop?)

    Here we come now to pretty much the only item on ur list that makes sense, The Tablets.
    This is 1 of the things that cozed major uproar in the community. And i think we all agree y. Even tho i dont c it as game breaking tbh, i would still like it removed or capped at 1 hour per day or something that makes it trivial and missing it wont put a huge gap between u and a person that does use it.

    You also mentioned synergy crystals, i have 4 Lvl 60s with all the synergy crystals on them. This is not pay to win item. Its SO easily acquired in game. Paying cash for it is more of being lazy rather than pay to win.

    Your posts just make me think that you consider everything thats at the end of its tier (like synergy crystals, 6 slot sigils..etc) to be BiS and thus not to be offered for money. This is ur own personal view on the matter and no point arguing about it.

    The reality of it, ppl r worried about top lvl raid gear/lessers/weapons, and this is what rly makes a difference. Not a sigil that will take me 5 mins a Great Hunt to buy, or a day of tagging zone events to get a synergy crystal.
    Last edited by DaCommando; 05-23-2013 at 07:43 AM.
    Retired

  6. #336
    Ascendant Rounded's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katosu View Post
    There is no raid gear for sale on the cash shop.
    All vendors use the same type of organized UI, but the cost for raid gear stll requires endless eclipse stones and not credit last I saw.

    The vendor capes have never been BIS.
    Torvan Prime hunter cape is not best in slot for any class.
    All of the best in slot hunter capes were all obtained by killing Crucia and Regulos.
    The new Torvan capes are BiS, they're upgrade to any available cape in the game at the moment.

  7. #337
    Prophet of Telara Gamma Ray's Avatar
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    I was under the impression that the CS was still incomplete, both in features/items and pricing, and not the focus of the current PTS iteration.
    "You with your fancy cooldowns and "runic" power! You know where my power comes from!? THE BACK OF MY HAND, #&!$%!"

  8. #338
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    Quote Originally Posted by mo0trix View Post
    Daglar also stated that no single piece of equipment on the shop that is purchasable would be best in slot. These essences are best in slot. If they go live..well, Daglar has to resign... he promised as much on the stream
    They are ASSUMED to be best in slot.
    It may be a similar issue to the current tier where best in slot essences are obtained from raid rifts.

    I know you won't respond since you candidly announced putting me on ignore earlier, but you're spending all this time being antagonistic to the devs not because they've done anything wrong to you, but because you simply disagree with the game going f2p.
    Every single post from you is looking for an excuse to leave the game.

    Last time I saw someone act that way, was when they threatened to end their friendship with someone because they voted Obama.
    Let's not emulate such behavior simply because people have a different belief on how things should be run.

  9. #339
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rounded View Post
    The new Torvan capes are BiS, they're upgrade to any available cape in the game at the moment.
    People originally though the Torvan vendor capes were BIS back when SL launched.
    Low and behold the Regulos and Crucia capes were better.

    We cannot ASSUME an item is best in slot.
    We really need to know what other capes of the same tier is available so we can properly compare.
    Otherwise, we discredit ourselves, and we may mislead other people.

    So right now, we should not state they are BIS, but simply state that it would be a problem if they do turn out to be BIS when compared to every other item of the same tier.

    Not stating that you are wrong, but we should be cautious and not overreact.
    Last edited by Katosu; 05-23-2013 at 07:43 AM.

  10. #340
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    Do you guys really care what form of currency is used to purchase the essences? You still must have the reputation. One could argue that the $15 (or whatever) is actually more expensive than the Infinity Stones (lol, cross-server events) and planarite (gained by getting the required faction.. almost guaranteed).

    I'm an advocate of multiple paths to achieve the same goal. If Trion is going the route of opening up a means to buy items with multiple currencies, without removing the required play time to achieve said items, then who cares?

    And if you're rich, you can probably buy the essences with in-game currency from REX sales on the AH?
    Last edited by Patchkid; 05-23-2013 at 07:48 AM.

  11. #341
    Ascendant Rounded's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaCommando View Post
    Your posts just make me think that you consider everything thats at the end of its tier (like synergy crystals, 6 slot sigils..etc) to be BiS and thus not to be offered for money. This is ur own personal view on the matter and no point arguing about it.
    Yes, it is my opinion that if a slot can have an item equipped and it is the best item on that slot in the whole game, it shouldn't be on the RMT side. I can make a pretty flow chart if needed.

    Also you quoted a post which I haven't posted in that form which makes this even funnier. Somehow the forum thinks that I posted what you quoted when I actually didn't.

  12. #342
    Ascendant Rounded's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patchkid View Post
    Do you guys really care what form of currency is used to purchase the essences? You still must have the reputation. One could argue that the $15 (or whatever) is actually more expensive than the Infinity Stones (lol, cross-server events) and planarite (gained by getting the required faction.. almost guaranteed).

    I'm an advocate of multiple paths to achieve the same goal. If Trion is going the route of opening up a means to buy items with multiple currencies, without removing the required play time to achieve said items, then who cares?

    And if you're rich, you can probably buy the essences with in-game currency from REX sales on the AH?
    Torvan lessers have practically an infinite supply of currency available and it only takes time. Conquest lessers don't, you cannot have neough CQ marks to buy all of the lessers, the progression towards a full sigil is capped to X amount of marks per day. Bypassing this limitation with real money is P2W in my opinion, it's giving goods which are not aquirable in-game at the same pace to those who want to spend money.

    Same with the token tablets, those with money available, will be able to aquire goods faster than those who do not use them.
    Last edited by Rounded; 05-23-2013 at 07:53 AM.

  13. #343
    Plane Walker DaCommando's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rounded View Post
    I will just paste the list I had few pages back and add numbers next to it:
    Following BiS items are up for Credits:
    Epic Raid Synergy crystals - 9 in total
    Highest reputation level lesser essences form Lycini and Torvan - for 1 spec alone, this is 6, for 2 specs, this is 12 total
    Highest reputation level capes from Torvan - 1 per spec, 2 total
    Token Tablets of all levels - 1
    6-slot source machines (incl. BoP and BoA machines) - 2 in total
    Planar focus runes - 6 in total
    Freelancer's lesser essences - 6 in total

    This is more than a few items, I'd call that more than 3 dozens.
    Check the red text!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rounded View Post
    Also you quoted a post which I haven't posted in that form which makes this even funnier. Somehow the forum thinks that I posted what you quoted when I actually didn't.
    Technically, you are right. the 6 slot sigil is a BiS. No doubt. Considering selling it for $$ is pay to win is wrong. Because it literally takes 5 minutes to farm the ingame currency needed to buy it. I will go back to what i mentioned earlier. If you are going to complain about an item, it better be hard to acquire in game. Not something that takes 5 minutes to farm and has 0 impact what so ever on the game's economy. Thats beside the sigil on its own is useless, u still have to buy the lessers that go into it.

    So back to the main discussion, Tablets and Torvan Lessers/Cape r by far the only items on cash shop that r considered Pay to Win. Anything else pretty much is Pay to be Lazy.
    Retired

  14. #344
    Telaran
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    Maybe I wasn't listening to live stream well enough and if so I apologise but I thought Daglar said all BIS items would still need to be earned in game.
    Ie - Gated with notoriety, rank, or having the raid gear to allow crystals to work.
    As far as I am concerned after you grind your rep or rank it is just a different currency to buy the same thing. They are not removing any skill-based aspect of the game. Grinding IS involves no skill, or thought, only time. So what difference does it make if someone uses a different currency.
    I think a lot of drama is being kicked up unnecessarily. I have confidence in Trion to listen to all legitimate concerns but, in my humble opinion, selling gated items is not a problem. If they were allowing you to buy them for cash without the rep then that would be a very different story but I think, on the whole with a few pricing problems aside, they have done well with the cash shop.
    I hope Daglar keeps that coffee cup full of whisky, he's gonna need it.

  15. #345
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    I have no issue with Essences. Sorry but not all of us can play all day every day to farm the stones needed to upgrade sigil, and buy capes for all our chars. Explain to me the challenge that exists to farm infinity stones to buy rep item? Buying them just saves time. You are not a better player cause you spent time doing mindless stone farming to buy rep gear. So complaining about them is really a non issue. Now if they sold an essence that only drops from a raid rift or some raid world boss, that would be p2w.

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