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Thread: PvP Normalization - The Consensus Thus Far

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    Default PvP Normalization - The Consensus Thus Far

    Because I'm a masochist when it comes to getting at the facts, I went through the main PTS normalization thread post, by post, by post and wrote down all unique forum accounts and their stance on normalizing PvP in Rift. Some of the responses were indifferent and didn't side one way or another. My counts include only those that were clear in one direction or another. Further, I was very generous towards the "Against" side of the equation in attempt to counter any particular bias I personally have as I am very much in favor of the normalization. So, anything that was even remotely "negative" towards the concept, I put down in the "Against" camp while I was much stricter with the "For" camp. As an aside, I DID literally write down every single unique name I came across along with their position on the issue. This paper is siitting next to me as I type this and, if absolutely necessary, I can type it out in a post or even scan it in and provide an imgur link but I'm hoping I won't have to go there.

    Here are the results:

    482 total posts that I went through
    68 unique accounts were FOR normalization in Rift PvP
    52 unique accounts were AGAINST normalization in Rift PvP

    There you have it.

    Discuss.
    Moved on from Rift due to: Rift's PvP being a mindless, skilless zerg that has been and will continue to be perpetuated and reinforced :: A horribly optimized engine :: My personal distaste for F2P (already heading down the P2W path) after giving it a fair shake. Rift is an exceptional MMO by an overachieving development team that unfortunately is ruined by a few personally show-stopping issues.

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    I think the current iteration on PTS is what most people oppose, not the actual concept of normalization. And for the people who oppose normalization, I think most of them don't understand the concept of a "gear reset" or "testing" or the fact that Trion has already said they'll maintain PVP progression if it is implemented.

    In short, it's just a thread full of knee jerk reactions, and I don't think this whole situation is nearly as bad as some people are making it out to be.

    Or maybe I'm just insane, totally off-base and in the wrong.
    Ya never know.
    ~Quiescent

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaros View Post
    I think the current iteration on PTS is what most people oppose, not the actual concept of normalization. And for the people who oppose normalization, I think most of them don't understand the concept of a "gear reset" or "testing" or the fact that Trion has already said they'll maintain PVP progression if it is implemented.

    In short, it's just a thread full of knee jerk reactions, and I don't think this whole situation is nearly as bad as some people are making it out to be.

    Or maybe I'm just insane, totally off-base and in the wrong.
    Ya never know.
    I agree with you.
    Moved on from Rift due to: Rift's PvP being a mindless, skilless zerg that has been and will continue to be perpetuated and reinforced :: A horribly optimized engine :: My personal distaste for F2P (already heading down the P2W path) after giving it a fair shake. Rift is an exceptional MMO by an overachieving development team that unfortunately is ruined by a few personally show-stopping issues.

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    Cool, how many who were for it actually pvp? I mean if you're taking a sub rank 50 who has been playing the game for more than 3 months as a vote For normalization when it's obvious they don't actually pvp....what's the point?

    Those who like pvp are max rank or damn near it, those who only join warfronts out of boredom or for the PA from the daily should not have a voice in this matter.

    Ask me what I think is a good idea for crafting when I've been playing the game for 8 months and my highest craft skill is 40. Give me max craft, level it out so i can craft whatever i want whenever i want. I hate running around clicking on things and gathering mats. Guess what? I'm still not going to craft even if you make that change. Crafting is boring and pointless to me, if it mattered in the slightest I'd be max.
    Last edited by Macadami; 08-15-2012 at 08:43 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Synovia View Post
    Here are the results:

    482 total posts that I went through
    68 unique accounts were FOR normalization in Rift PvP
    52 unique accounts were AGAINST normalization in Rift PvP

    There you have it.

    Discuss.
    What about those of us who are for it in the expansion but against it before the expansion? Is that "for" or "against" in your chart.

  6. #6
    Plane Touched Shyessa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synovia View Post

    Here are the results:

    482 total posts that I went through
    68 unique accounts were FOR normalization in Rift PvP
    52 unique accounts were AGAINST normalization in Rift PvP

    There you have it.

    Discuss.
    Thanks for numbers. We need much larger sample size though.

  7. #7
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    Remind me again why I should consistantly pvp when there are no tangible rewards as opposed to someone who joins a WF for the first time? If the gear progression is taken away, then there is no tangible reward to doing it and people will stop. You could say that people should play to have fun, and that rewards shouldn't matter, and while that argument may sound great, in reality it just doesn't hold up. How many people would still run t2's if there wasn't the 250k xp and ID marks? If you take away the rewards, it will revert to people sitting afk bored in meridian again, and will soon start looking for other games because there is no further way to progress their toon. Nobody expects to be able to kill Maelforge with their brand new lvl 50s, so how is that any different than expecting to kill a full rk50 in a 1v1 situation?? Trion just released a new tier of gear, 10 more ranks, and enough new gear to cause months of intense mark farming, only to announce normalization?? WTF have I been working my butt off these last few months for?? And on a side note, I could argue that the class balance issue is easily just as large as the gear balance issue.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Synovia View Post
    482 total posts that I went through

    There you have it.

    Discuss.
    Sampling.

    But you can't read this anyway because I was right too much.
    Last edited by spaceboots; 08-15-2012 at 09:20 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macadami View Post
    Cool, how many who were for it actually pvp? I mean if you're taking a sub rank 50 who has been playing the game for more than 3 months as a vote For normalization when it's obvious they don't actually pvp....what's the point?

    Those who like pvp are max rank or damn near it, those who only join warfronts out of boredom or for the PA from the daily should not have a voice in this matter.

    Ask me what I think is a good idea for crafting when I've been playing the game for 8 months and my highest craft skill is 40. Give me max craft, level it out so i can craft whatever i want whenever i want. I hate running around clicking on things and gathering mats. Guess what? I'm still not going to craft even if you make that change. Crafting is boring and pointless to me, if it mattered in the slightest I'd be max.
    Players shouldn't have a voice in the type of content they want to enjoy? That's a new one to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by vexare View Post
    How many people would still run t2's if there wasn't the 250k xp and ID marks? If you take away the rewards, it will revert to people sitting afk bored in meridian again, and will soon start looking for other games because there is no further way to progress their toon.
    I can't speak for anyone other than myself, but I ran dungeons both before, and after I'd outgrown them. The half-bar of PA is nice, sure, but I do those dungeons because I actually enjoy them. If I don't feel like a dungeon, I won't do them, even if those marks are still useful to me.
    Last edited by Caydin; 08-15-2012 at 09:36 PM.
    Regardless of what happens, people will always be unhappy. Be thankful for what you have and always be constructive.
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    good or the best
    This quote offers insight into why there are so many perceived balance issues. To some, it doesn't matter how good something is; if it isn't the best, it isn't worth using.

  10. #10
    Ascendant Tufelhunden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Macadami View Post
    Cool, how many who were for it actually pvp? I mean if you're taking a sub rank 50 who has been playing the game for more than 3 months as a vote For normalization when it's obvious they don't actually pvp....what's the point?

    Those who like pvp are max rank or damn near it, those who only join warfronts out of boredom or for the PA from the daily should not have a voice in this matter.

    Ask me what I think is a good idea for crafting when I've been playing the game for 8 months and my highest craft skill is 40. Give me max craft, level it out so i can craft whatever i want whenever i want. I hate running around clicking on things and gathering mats. Guess what? I'm still not going to craft even if you make that change. Crafting is boring and pointless to me, if it mattered in the slightest I'd be max.
    Played for over a year now, not rank 50 and love PVP. Hate the way Rift and most MMO PVP is set up as skill means nada. Normalization in some form will make me PVP much more as it then becomes a game of skill.

    The current set up is like going into a FPS game with half the players using an aimbot and wall hacks and the other half playing without. Not much fun for those not given the crutch and TBH I cannot see how its fun for the other side.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synovia View Post
    Because I'm a masochist when it comes to getting at the facts, I went through the main PTS normalization thread post, by post, by post and wrote down all unique forum accounts and their stance on normalizing PvP in Rift. Some of the responses were indifferent and didn't side one way or another. My counts include only those that were clear in one direction or another. Further, I was very generous towards the "Against" side of the equation in attempt to counter any particular bias I personally have as I am very much in favor of the normalization. So, anything that was even remotely "negative" towards the concept, I put down in the "Against" camp while I was much stricter with the "For" camp. As an aside, I DID literally write down every single unique name I came across along with their position on the issue. This paper is siitting next to me as I type this and, if absolutely necessary, I can type it out in a post or even scan it in and provide an imgur link but I'm hoping I won't have to go there.

    Here are the results:

    482 total posts that I went through
    68 unique accounts were FOR normalization in Rift PvP
    52 unique accounts were AGAINST normalization in Rift PvP

    There you have it.

    Discuss.
    Here would be my interpretation:

    1) The vast majority of the 68 accounts FOR normalization are casual PVPers who only do it as a side hobby, with their main focus PVE and raiding. This group prefers this, but won't leave Rift over it either way because they play Rift to PVE not PVP

    2) The vast majority of the 52 accounts AGAINST normalization focus primarily on PVP and are not dedicated raiders. This group is against normalization, and may very well leave Rift over this issue. I am in this camp and have already unsubbed for example

    So there you have it.

  12. #12
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Macadami View Post
    Cool, how many who were for it actually pvp? I mean if you're taking a sub rank 50 who has been playing the game for more than 3 months as a vote For normalization when it's obvious they don't actually pvp....what's the point?

    Those who like pvp are max rank or damn near it, those who only join warfronts out of boredom or for the PA from the daily should not have a voice in this matter.

    Ask me what I think is a good idea for crafting when I've been playing the game for 8 months and my highest craft skill is 40. Give me max craft, level it out so i can craft whatever i want whenever i want. I hate running around clicking on things and gathering mats. Guess what? I'm still not going to craft even if you make that change. Crafting is boring and pointless to me, if it mattered in the slightest I'd be max.
    Exactly, crafting is another great example. Along with raiding. If you insist on getting rid of the grind in PVP then get rid of the crafting grind and raiding grind.

    Make all crafters max level with zero effort, and let all casual PVEers get max gear for ID without grinding. Fair is fair is fair.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caydin View Post
    I can't speak for anyone other than myself, but I ran dungeons both before, and after I'd outgrown them. The half-bar of PA is nice, sure, but I do those dungeons because I actually enjoy them. If I don't feel like a dungeon, I won't do them, even if those marks are still useful to me.
    Then you would be part of the 1%, because before the weekly raid quests, and t2's giving out raid marks, the vast majority of players spent their play time sitting idle in meridian waiting for zone events so they could tag 1 mob for ISS credit and recall back to meridian. Running the same dungeon you have ran previously 1000 times for no reward is simply not fun. Lets take a look at a different game, picking D3 simply because it is fairly new and popular. If you were max level, and knew for a fact that there was never another item that would ever drop that would benefit your charactor, would you still play it everyday? Once you reach the point where your charactor is no longer progressing, you have also reached the point where there is very little incentive to play the game as opposed to finding a new game that you haven't ran through the content so many times you could do it blindfolded.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synovia View Post
    Because I'm a masochist when it comes to getting at the facts, I went through the main PTS normalization thread post, by post, by post and wrote down all unique forum accounts and their stance on normalizing PvP in Rift. Some of the responses were indifferent and didn't side one way or another. My counts include only those that were clear in one direction or another. Further, I was very generous towards the "Against" side of the equation in attempt to counter any particular bias I personally have as I am very much in favor of the normalization. So, anything that was even remotely "negative" towards the concept, I put down in the "Against" camp while I was much stricter with the "For" camp. As an aside, I DID literally write down every single unique name I came across along with their position on the issue. This paper is siitting next to me as I type this and, if absolutely necessary, I can type it out in a post or even scan it in and provide an imgur link but I'm hoping I won't have to go there.

    Here are the results:

    482 total posts that I went through
    68 unique accounts were FOR normalization in Rift PvP
    52 unique accounts were AGAINST normalization in Rift PvP

    There you have it.

    Discuss.

    So with this change only 40% of the player base will leave...

    DISCUSS

  15. #15
    Ascendant Tufelhunden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirantor View Post
    So with this change only 40% of the player base will leave...

    DISCUSS
    Because we know forum goers represent the game. LOL Discuss

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