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  2. #62
    Ascendant Steelwind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaros View Post
    All of that is causative of poor itemization on multiple levels, and PVPers have been, for lack of a better word, screwed over, to compensate for that. I really don't think that's a good thing.
    You guys have not been screwed over. And there is no poor itemization for PvPers. You can attain weapons more powerful than PvP weapons. It's in HK/ID. This is intended. Rift is a PvE game bro. Daglar indirectly revealed that himself when he said he asked to scale PvP weapons back a tier. Their "intent" is for Rift to be a PvE game. PvErs should have an edge over PvPers...in the game of Rift.

    It's a 3D way of thinking. Most of you think of it as 2D...hey if I strictly PvP I should have the same dps output as a PvErs. No no. If you want an edge over your PvP couterparts then you must farm PvE weapons to use in PvP. That's Trion's way of saying "here is your progression PvPers if you want weapons past R50". Wake up peeps. =)
    Last edited by Steelwind; 06-10-2012 at 07:27 AM.
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  3. #63
    Ascendant Zaros's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steelwind View Post
    You guys have not been screwed over. And there is no poor itemization for PvPers. You can attain weapons more powerful than PvP weapons. It's in HK/ID. This is intended. Rift is a PvE game bro. Daglar indirectly revealed that himself when he said he asked to scale PvP weapons back a tier. Their "intent" is for Rift to be a PvE game. PvErs should have an edge over PvPers...in the game of Rift.

    It's a 3D way of thinking. Most of you think of it as 2D...hey if I strictly PvP I should have the same dps output as a PvErs. No no. If you want an edge over your PvP couterparts then you must farm PvE weapons to use in PvP. That's Trion's way of saying "here is your progression PvPers if you want weapons past R50". Wake up peeps. =)
    See, I can't believe you're actually admitting to both hypocrisy and a double standard.
    Not only that, but you're smug about it.

    "I should be better in PVP because I PVE, but PVP should give no advantage in PVE"
    - Steelwind. Seriously, that's what you're saying. I can't oversimplify that. Schools of thought thousands of years ago ironed out concepts like that, and labeled them as bad. It goes all sorts of logic. Imagine if I graduated from Medical school, I could get a free degree in law school too. How much sense does that make? Why would anyone even want to go to law school? That's the kind of situation you're supporting. I used to raid, and have the same ideas you did, but your got to open your eyes a bit more.

    There should be either no advantage in either aspect, or there should be equal levels of crossover. Things are starting to change, and I intend to keep them moving that way.
    Last edited by Zaros; 06-10-2012 at 08:20 AM.
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  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaros View Post
    I know, right? Making HK crystals less appealing in PVP is so stupid.
    How would it do that, though?

    PvEers would still have their hit on their weapons, meaning they'd still be able to use their HK crystals in pvp. And let's not forget that the helm and gloves also have hit on them.


    The idea is stupid not because of what it tries to do, but because it doesn't in any way accomplish what it was meant to.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xarog View Post
    How would it do that, though?

    PvEers would still have their hit on their weapons, meaning they'd still be able to use their HK crystals in pvp. And let's not forget that the helm and gloves also have hit on them.


    The idea is stupid not because of what it tries to do, but because it doesn't in any way accomplish what it was meant to.
    http://forums.riftgame.com/public-te...issue-pvp.html

    Read the OP. You're thinking about it in the wrong way, don't be so quick to call something stupid just because you don't understand what it was meant to accomplish.

    Think of it more like "Improving the value of PVP gear" rather than "Devaluing PVE gear".
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  6. #66
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    This pvp vs pve thing is getting annoying, just make everything the same and end this.

    Its not like long ago anyway, nowadays raid marks are given away like candy and anyone can get into raids really fast and get pve weapons easier than the long R40 (soon 50) grind.
    ]

  7. #67
    RIFT Fan Site Operator Xillean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaros View Post
    http://forums.riftgame.com/public-te...issue-pvp.html

    Read the OP. You're thinking about it in the wrong way, don't be so quick to call something stupid just because you don't understand what it was meant to accomplish.

    Think of it more like "Improving the value of PVP gear" rather than "Devaluing PVE gear".
    Really if having that little bit of extra hit was so bad on the weapons Daglar would you at least please consider moving the bit your removing to our synergy crystals? Zaros idea is a good one, no raider would ever use their 4 piece pvp crystal over their pve one. This still gives pvpers their desired 150 hit/focus and makes our pvp crystals more attractive for pvp. So the 114 that would be on the main/two handers, offhand and ranged would still be there but the additional 36 that was there would be on the crystal.

    Thats of course assuming you mean for a one hand, off hand and ranged to have 38 each which is one tier behind their current values, someone correct me if I am wrong.
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  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Shiva- View Post
    Why? What reason would there be to have the R50 PvP weapons be two tiers below their ID equivalents? Raiders aren't the only playerbase that you have, and the constant pandering to them is getting old.

    If R50 PvP weapons are only going to have +38 Hit/Focus on them, then it is high time you Devs gave PvE gear its Vengeance equivalent. PvE weapons are still going to be better for PvP, than PvP weapons if they are going to be given such low amounts of Hit.
    Starting to think they want to run out what is left of their PvP base. Remember how many PvP severs we use to have and what we halve now...

    For all WoW'S problems, this wasn't as big, it was the arena weapons (and blizz's pardoning to that group)...though, it is starting to feel real familiar..
    Last edited by Lords0fpain; 06-10-2012 at 09:28 AM.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steelwind View Post
    Rift is a PvE game bro...
    You'll have to point out where it says that.

  10. #70
    Plane Walker Grimt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steelwind View Post
    Not at all. I'm totally fine with the way things are on live. I see players on live using their PvP weapons in HK/ID all the time. Totally cool with that. It's a stop gap until they get the drop they want. But to meet the hit requirement they have to spec/rune their gear. And I see PvErs use their HK/ID drops in PvP all the time. Yes HK/ID weapons yield more dps except for HPs. That's the way it should be because...da da da...

    ...Rift is a PvE game. PvP has always been a step behind. Did you see any updates for PvP in Storm Legion expansion? Nope. I am sure after the expansion something will follow for PvP. But this game should mostly cater to PvErs. I'm sorry, just being honest. And those who PvP all know this, you just won't admit it. Hey, I come from a PvP background. Hardcore PvPers do not just play Rift. It's not satisfying. The way I see it, Trion is giving PvPers something...like a "better than nothing" mentallity. And hey, I think they are doing their best. But we all know that Rift is not a PvP game. It's PvE and if you PvE then you should have an advantage over those who only PvP.
    You may be right, but the point you keep cluelessly missing is that it doesn't have to be like that. There is no reason that Rift couldn't work for both PvE and PvP if done right. It would be a shame if Trion thinks like you do, but if that's the case you're right that people like you (all half dozen server's worth) will have the game all to yourself once some of the interesting PvP alternatives show up over the next year or so.

  11. #71
    Ascendant Steelwind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimt View Post
    You may be right, but the point you keep cluelessly missing is that it doesn't have to be like that. There is no reason that Rift couldn't work for both PvE and PvP if done right. It would be a shame if Trion thinks like you do, but if that's the case you're right that people like you (all half dozen server's worth) will have the game all to yourself once some of the interesting PvP alternatives show up over the next year or so.
    Thinking in terms of "the way it should be" vs "the way it is" is quite a distinction. You say "it doesn't have to be like that" but I say "this is the way it is and will be". PvP takes a back seat to PvE in Rift. Storm Legion is all about PvE. Then your PvP content follows. That's the way it is and will be. Sorry.
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  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flimble View Post
    You'll have to point out where it says that.
    This way

    No PvP content whatsoever, and...

    -Achieve greatness with 7 new dungeons, 3 raids, a Chronicle, and more!

    It's spelled PEA VEA EEEEE. Hey you asked and I merely pointed.
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  13. #73
    Champion Turrant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steelwind View Post
    This way

    No PvP content whatsoever, and...

    -Achieve greatness with 7 new dungeons, 3 raids, a Chronicle, and more!

    It's spelled PEA VEA EEEEE. Hey you asked and I merely pointed.
    I could have sworn that they said somewhere that there will be pvp stuff in the expac but they were not ready not announce it. That would fit under the "and more" as well.

  14. #74
    Ascendant Steelwind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaros View Post
    See, I can't believe you're actually admitting to both hypocrisy and a double standard.
    Not only that, but you're smug about it.

    "I should be better in PVP because I PVE, but PVP should give no advantage in PVE"
    See the forest, not the trees. I use PvP shoulders/chest with resist runes in PvE for progression. More health and resist = WIN! PvP has plenty of advantages in PvE. Also, plenty of players are using their PvP weapons in HK/ID as a stop gap until they get their drops. Without these PvP weapons, players would have to resort to crafted/sliver/dungeon drops.

    You're stuck on how things should be, instead of taking advantage of how things are. It's you who is to blame for this, not Trion.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steelwind View Post
    See the forest, not the trees. I use PvP shoulders/chest with resist runes in PvE for progression. More health and resist = WIN! PvP has plenty of advantages in PvE. Also, plenty of players are using their PvP weapons in HK/ID as a stop gap until they get their drops. Without these PvP weapons, players would have to resort to crafted/sliver/dungeon drops.

    You're stuck on how things should be, instead of taking advantage of how things are. It's you who is to blame for this, not Trion.
    Now you're just being silly and making things up. Also you're stuck on how thinks are and not how they can be improved.
    Even free cost too much now

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