inb4

[ChrisN]

No current plans to remove it. I did ask it to be scaled back by a tier however.

~Daglar

Daglar, I normally agree with changes that you make but this is one is just bs.

[Flimble]

what do you propose Trion do?

It is fairly easy what to do, it has already been suggested numerous times, put the hit on the PvP crystals, but this is Trion...

[Hijati]

It is fairly easy what to do, it has already been suggested numerous times, put the hit the PvP crystals, but this is Trion...

As we benefit so much from this now this would be awesome...but do you really think Trion is going to make things easy like this?

[Primalthirst]

It is fairly easy what to do, it has already been suggested numerous times, put the hit on the PvP crystals, but this is Trion...

That in itself causes issues. If that's the case then Johnny raider rocks up with his ID Scythe and Gun then adds in that crystal. He's now around 400 Hit and cannot be Blocked, Dodged or Parried by anyone, even with Sidesteps up a Rogue still has -30% chance to Dodge.
I'm not trying to shoot anyone's ideas down, I just want everyone to look at it from all sides.

[Mr Sandman]

And to help drive Violacea’s point home even more, let’s check out an example shall we?

I’ll use the Rogue calling and Shiv because that’s what I’m most familiar with. So, here is the R50 Rogue Shiv currently on the PTS with a +13 Hit rune added to it:

R50 Shiv
DPS: 52.5
Strength: +26
Dexterity: +40
Endurance: +36
Physical Crit: +31
Hit: +38 +13= +51
Valor: +41
Vengeance: +15
Total AP: +33
Total PC: +71
Hit Rune: +13

Okay, now let’s compare that with the crafted axe that any player can get for enough plat, that has a Pure Valorstone Augment, and a +10 Dexterity rune added to it:

Carceran Berzerker Axe
One hand axe
DPS 52.5
Strength: +42
Dexterity: +42 + 10= +52
Endurance: +24
Physical Crit: +30
Hit: +65
Total AP: +47
Total PC: +82
Pure Valorstone Augment: +43 Valor
Dexterity Rune: +10

As can be seen here the Axe has more Strength, Dexterity, total AP, total Physical Crit, and Hit. To add insult to injury it even has more Valor. In contrast the Shiv beats out the Axe with Endurance and Vengeance.

On paper the Shiv does have one more AP against players when you add in Vengeance, but even that pathetic advantage is quickly eclipsed when you take into account the many talents available to Rogues in several of their souls that increase AP. Because those talents buff AP, but don’t buff Vengeance, making the PvP weapon even more inferior.

So what we have here is a crafted weapon that does more damage against NPCs, does more damage against PCs, and has more Valor than a weapon that requires a player to grind out 50 PvP ranks, and earn hundreds upon hundreds of thousands of Favour to purchase.

Where is the Raider outrage about that? Why is it unacceptable for a PvP player to have +50 Hit on their R50 weapons, but it is perfectly acceptable for a crafted weapon to have more Hit AND more Valor, that any player can buy without ever having set foot in a warfront, or a raid?

Once again PvP players must raid to get competitive gear, or pay raiders outrageous sums of plat to be able to gather the necessary ingredients to make what they need. It’s high time PvP gear was BiS for PvP, and as viable in PvE, as PvE gear is in PvP.

Where is the incentive, Trion, for PvP players? Why must PvP gear be inferior in so many avenues of play? It is more worth a player's time to fork over some RL dollars to a goldfarmer and buy what they need, as opposed to actually PvP for substandard gear.

This is not only wrong, it is just downright stupid.

Sorry but you're being ridiculous. If you think these crafted mats are going to be gotten before the charred boots for guilds. The only time this would even happen is an ID gdkp run over multiple weeks, and I don't see those happening just yet. Grinding a p50 weapon is so much easier than getting a guild fully into relic boots or setting up a pug ID, and while perhaps the axe is slighty better overall it's not that significant that a pvp player is going be at much of a disadvantage by getting the p50 weapon over 20+ weeks of ID raiding to get a valor augment on an ID crafted weapon. I suppose you think pvp should have some 100k grindable relic weapons too.

[Flimble]

That in itself causes issues. If that's the case then Johnny raider rocks up with his ID Scythe and Gun then adds in that crystal. He's now around 400 Hit and cannot be Blocked, Dodged or Parried by anyone, even with Sidesteps up a Rogue still has -30% chance to Dodge.
I'm not trying to shoot anyone's ideas down, I just want everyone to look at it from all sides.

Outside of sidesteps:

How much does johnny raider with ID weapons currently miss?

How much does a ranged johnny raider with id/hk weapons + three bits of armour miss currently?

Yes I agree it is not a perfect solution, but then with Trion's track record expecting them to do it properly* rather than paper over the cracks with a quick fix is unrealistic

* - which would probably require either a new PvP hit stat or a new PvE (raid only) stat.

[Marduk]

This is bogus. Leave the hit where it was at. FreakinTrion.

[HannonHellbringer]

With the bolstering to rank 36 for everyone. Raiders will be able to walk into WFs and Conquest in full raid gear (ID gear for example + scythe) and be bolstered to rank 36 and most likely destroy anything? If this is true, does trion even know what they are doing? If this goes through, the stats on the new set of pvp gear MUST be raised and we WILL need as much hit as possible. Trion, do not mess this up please.

[ChrisN]

With the bolstering to rank 36 for everyone. Raiders will be able to walk into WFs and Conquest in full raid gear (ID gear for example + scythe) and be bolstered to rank 36 and most likely destroy anything? If this is true, does trion even know what they are doing? If this goes through, the stats on the new set of pvp gear MUST be raised and we WILL need as much hit as possible. Trion, do not mess this up please.

I have no hope for Trion to do anything good with PvP.

Can not wait till Guild Wars 2. The best part...no monthly fee for my PvP addiction.

[Antigonos]

I have no hope for Trion to do anything good with PvP.

Can not wait till Guild Wars 2. The best part...no monthly fee for my PvP addiction.

the only thing: In Guild Wars 2 fighting just is no fun (for me) ... if you compare rift to gw2 fighting is so much more intense in rift, i really have a hard time going to gw2 ...

[Lords0fpain]

The addition of hit/focus was not to make it so you can use PVP weapons in PVE content. It was to help you hit in PVP. PVP weapons are for PVP!!!! Stop complaining that you cannot use them in ID. That is not what they are intended for. If you wish to use a weapon in ID then get a PVE weapon!

The same should apply when you want to PvP...get a PvP weapon....

[Foghladha]

I really don't see why this should ever be an issue. Why not just make Toughness = Valor, Vengeance = Hit / Focus and if someone wants to spend 100 hours queuing for warfronts to get their gear then they can, if someone wants to spend 100 hours working the progression they can.

Let people play how they want and enjoy the same benefits. This doesn't need to be a PvE vs PvP issue. Who cares if a PvPer has an axe equivalent to a PvEr who's done ID. Not like said PvPer is going to give up PvP to go raid. And even if he did wouldn't you rather have your raid geared rather than gimped.

This whole forcing people to PvE to get gear then forcing them to PvP to get gear just sucks. Any way you look at it. Let people grow their character by doing EITHER. Put top tier PvP gear on the same bar as top tier PvE gear and be done with it.

Any way you look at it players grind to get that gear. Who cares if it's through PvP or PvE. This whole issue is ridiculous. Since when is having people better geared for ANY obstacle a bad thing.

[Lords0fpain]

I really don't see why this should ever be an issue. Why not just make Toughness = Valor, Vengeance = Hit / Focus and if someone wants to spend 100 hours queuing for warfronts to get their gear then they can, if someone wants to spend 100 hours working the progression they can.

Let people play how they want and enjoy the same benefits. This doesn't need to be a PvE vs PvP issue. Who cares if a PvPer has an axe equivalent to a PvEr who's done ID. Not like said PvPer is going to give up PvP to go raid. And even if he did wouldn't you rather have your raid geared rather than gimped.

This whole forcing people to PvE to get gear then forcing them to PvP to get gear just sucks. Any way you look at it. Let people grow their character by doing EITHER. Put top tier PvP gear on the same bar as top tier PvE gear and be done with it.

Any way you look at it players grind to get that gear. Who cares if it's through PvP or PvE. This whole issue is ridiculous. Since when is having people better geared for ANY obstacle a bad thing.

Very well said...Isn't like the PvEers already get a ton more plat, xp for PA, the top crafting mats. Isn't that enough?

[Steelwind]

No current plans to remove it. I did ask it to be scaled back by a tier however.

~Daglar

Thank you Daglar. I agree with this move. A pvper who farms some favor should not have it easy to raid HK or ID while a pver works their tail off to farm a pve weapon which is totally dependant on RNG.

[HannonHellbringer]

I really don't see why this should ever be an issue. Why not just make Toughness = Valor, Vengeance = Hit / Focus and if someone wants to spend 100 hours queuing for warfronts to get their gear then they can, if someone wants to spend 100 hours working the progression they can.

Let people play how they want and enjoy the same benefits. This doesn't need to be a PvE vs PvP issue. Who cares if a PvPer has an axe equivalent to a PvEr who's done ID. Not like said PvPer is going to give up PvP to go raid. And even if he did wouldn't you rather have your raid geared rather than gimped.

This whole forcing people to PvE to get gear then forcing them to PvP to get gear just sucks. Any way you look at it. Let people grow their character by doing EITHER. Put top tier PvP gear on the same bar as top tier PvE gear and be done with it.

Any way you look at it players grind to get that gear. Who cares if it's through PvP or PvE. This whole issue is ridiculous. Since when is having people better geared for ANY obstacle a bad thing.

This is a good idea, they just need to bring the gear up to par with Raid gear, other wise raid gear will still be BiS for everything.