Hit on pvp weapons?is trion for real?:)

[Zyzyx]

PvE weapons will still be superior in PvE; and more than likely in PvP.

Try logging on to the pts. The pvp weapons are way better than the previous tier pve weapons. Who can tell when the rng gods will give you a ID weapon drop? It only takes a few days to get a pvp weapon.

[Flimble]

aham so you are not a raider...but you say Pvp is harder then Pve in RIft.Come join me for ID Progression then i give you 1 spot and see how easy it is.I invite you to wipe for 6 hours non stop on Laethys while managing 19 players on vent.,....ohh but i guess queueing with a button for warfronts and getting insta favor is harder..interesting.

I refer you to my previous two posts.

[Danitsia]

PvP requires much more than PvE in every game I have ever played.

I think what is being measured is not that PvE requires more or less skill than PvP, its just that the method of attaining rewards (gear, etc.) is MUCH harder in PvE than in PvP for games where there are instances of PvP (warfronts, battlegronds, arenas) and a currency that is given REGARDLESS of skill level.

In PvE, you get 3-4 drops off a mob that takes HOURS and HOURS to kill and you have to share that loot with several other people. Whereas in PvP, all you have to do is get the currency you need to purchase the loot.

[Olvi]

Try logging on to the pts. The pvp weapons are way better than the previous tier pve weapons. Who can tell when the rng gods will give you a ID weapon drop? It only takes a few days to get a pvp weapon.

How is that detrimental? If you happen to be ranked in PvP, you can use a PvP weapon until you get your ID weapon. Alternatively unranked players can get first dibs on ID weapons. Sounds like a win-win for the raid.

[Mekenna]

If they remove hit/focus from pvp rogues will need a massive nerf to dodge. Lol. Like a massive an HUGE nerf. It is a hard to solve problem. I honestly believe Trion should have never put +hit on the pvp weapons on PTS in the first place.

Players who want +hit on pvp weapons are expecting it now. To remove it will only make players more upset.

[Arcshayde]

I think what is being measured is not that PvE requires more or less skill than PvP, its just that the method of attaining rewards (gear, etc.) is MUCH harder in PvE than in PvP for games where there are instances of PvP (warfronts, battlegronds, arenas) and a currency that is given REGARDLESS of skill level.

In PvE, you get 3-4 drops off a mob that takes HOURS and HOURS to kill and you have to share that loot with several other people. Whereas in PvP, all you have to do is get the currency you need to purchase the loot.

The grind to R50 gear also takes "HOURS and HOURS," and it can't be put on farm status or bought with plat from a guild.

[Olvi]

If they remove hit/focus from pvp rogues will need a massive nerf to dodge. Lol. Like a massive an HUGE nerf. It is a hard to solve problem. I honestly believe Trion should have never put +hit on the pvp weapons on PTS in the first place.

Players who want +hit on pvp weapons are expecting it now. To remove it will only make players more upset.

Yeah that goes without saying. Same for block. Adding hit to PvP weapons seems to be the most practical thing to do.

[Adastra]

Players who want +hit on pvp weapons are expecting it now. To remove it will only make players more upset.

I disagree with this at least, it would be foolish to plan your gearing based off a PTS change/patch. Refer to the PTS change for warriors way back when they tried taking a stab at fixing their strength. Some people thought this would be final and were raging when they converted their gear from plate/leather to full plate, etc. I would hope people would know better by now though.

[bourbon]

The grind to R50 gear also takes "HOURS and HOURS," and it can't be put on farm status or bought with plat from a guild.

i raise your "hours and hours" with months and months of HK/rotp/ID raiding with no 2 hander drop/win roll...RNG. I did r31 to r40 in 1 port scion bonus weekend.By that timei got everything i could have ever gotten from the pvp armor adn weapon npc-full pvp set-2hander pvp weapon-2x1 handed pvp weapons-1 pvp shield-all pvp npc runes-pvp synergy crystal+all valor lesser essences.All the extra favor went into lots and lots of PA levels.
1 full session of port scion in a bonus weekend-30k favor. Sad. And absolutely every1 can do it.

[Flimble]

I think what is being measured is not that PvE requires more or less skill than PvP, its just that the method of attaining rewards (gear, etc.) is MUCH harder in PvE than in PvP for games where there are instances of PvP (warfronts, battlegronds, arenas) and a currency that is given REGARDLESS of skill level.

In PvE, you get 3-4 drops off a mob that takes HOURS and HOURS to kill and you have to share that loot with several other people. Whereas in PvP, all you have to do is get the currency you need to purchase the loot.

It takes hours and hours to get to r50, someone posted the other day that after 2 hours with pots on the bonus warfront (of which they won most of) they got about 40k favor.

It also depends on the situation, the way some people carry you would think raiding entirely consisted of progression raidng (difficult progression raiding at that, I seem to remember a bunch of posts about ID being too easy on release), guess what it doesn't.

In the last game I played I joint my guild when the top raid was on farm, all I had to wait for was appropriate drops, there was only one other new guild member, a different class, so I ddin't have to roll against anyone, the raid was easy, because I was surrounded by people with maxed out gear, I assume it would be similar for anyone joining a guild with HK on farm in the last few months.

[Danitsia]

The grind to R50 gear also takes "HOURS and HOURS," and it can't be put on farm status or bought with plat from a guild.

And its still guaranteed currency regardless of skill... just queue up and you are a matched INSTANTLY with a raid for that warfront. There is no planning, no scheduling, no raid leading, no voice communication, no organization AT ALL required. PvP is a solo event.

[Danitsia]

It takes hours and hours to get to r50, someone posted the other day that after 2 hours with pots on the bonus warfront (of which they won most of) they got about 40k favor.

It also depends on the situation, the way some people carry you would think raiding entirely consisted of progression raidng (difficult progression raiding at that, I seem to remember a bunch of posts about ID being too easy on release), guess what it doesn't.

In the last game I played I joint my guild when the top raid was on farm, all I had to wait for was appropriate drops, there was only one other new guild member, a different class, so I ddin't have to roll against anyone, the raid was easy, because I was surrounded by people with maxed out gear, I assume it would be similar for anyone joining a guild with HK on farm in the last few months.

And some people just kinda wander about in warfronts being essentially "carried" for their favor --- you can be carried in both situations. But that's 1 or 2 people per raid... it still takes the majority of a raid (in either instance) to get through the encounter/warfront. But PvP requires NO PRIOR planning or organization or coordination or strategy... its just "queue up".

[Naesraen]

Hit on pvp weapons doesnt make sense..that the problem..BUT..PVP HIT RUNES that can be put only on pvp armors ...that makes sense.

There would be very few people playing PvP who think that adding +hit to PvP weapons is the best solution - there have been multiple threads asking for better, more sophisticated fixes; and when the patch notes first went up, the reaction was not uniformly positive:

SO much fail. This is exactly how you don't fix this solution. Doing this has god awful longevity because the requirement for it is not a lateral system and voids out the usage of any resist any mage or calling may come by for years. Because yes, hit and focus's results are not equals. They are when you code a mob to be equal, but, the rate at which players gain magical resistance and parry/dodge are completely different.

Even in live I desire more than 100hit, and will use it. This endorses a problem, doesn't fix it at all.
...
The goal was to make pvp weapons most effective for pvp and pve weapons most effective for pve. It was broken and pve weapons were best for and suitable for pvp. Now pvp weapons are decent for pve and still not best for pvp. Congrats on propelling the paradox farther. I'm sorry this is not the fix for this issue at all. I can't prove it beyond laying out the logistics of it, but otherwise I'll watch it go up against the test of time. That is where I am quite certain it will fall short in. This scheme of using the exact +hit stat on pvp weapons doesn't. This is a let down to see after all this time. Someone could have thought of this 7 months ago while others figured out a real solution.

An IDEAL solution would have been some PvP specific version of +hit, along the lines of Vengeance. Because there IS a real problem with +hit in PvP, and melee classes without it are gimping themselves. An IDEAL solution would have been to code up a similar stat to +hit, that only worked in PvP.

We didn't get an ideal solution, we get a least-work solution. That's ok, there's a lot for Trion dev's to do, they've chosen the option that solves the problem fastest. It's a long way from ideal, but at least it gives those PvP-ing access to a stat that they need without having to run raids.

Is it the best solution? No.
Is it a good solution? That's debatable.
Is it the fastest solution to a real PvP problem? Yes, it is.

This has nothing to do with PvP-ers skipping raid content, or alternate gearing paths; and ideally it would have no impact on PvE; it's about PvP-ers being able to PvP effectively (melee classes, especially) without having to raid; to be as effective in PvP wearing PvP weapons as those wearing PvE weapons.

[-Shiva-]

look up..but i will still say it
Pvp weapons with hit on them can be used as bis weapon for ID progression.So every afk warfront grinder who just queues warfronts gets set with a bis weapon for ID and hes ready to go.
Getting max pvp rank is so easy....i just went to warfronts in bonus weekends and got to r40 didnt even have to grind.
On the other hand getting a Kraken Spine or a Tarnished Fiery Scythe...needs a top pve guild,needs vent coordination and tactic,needs at least 25 ppl online,needs LUCK..so that weapon drops...needs LUCK so that your roll is bigger then the other 4 who also want the weapon..only you can only do this once a week...as for pvp...you just go in warfronts for a week or so..and voila..Bis weapon with hit and max dps,and you can do it while afk since this is the trend now.Every1 can get a top pvp weapon here...every1.
That's the unbalance.

[edit]

First of all you don't need a top PvE guild to do raids. I'm not in a top PvE raiding guild and I managed to get raid weapons. HK is being pugged on a lot of servers now.

You cannot get to rank 40 in a week, and you certainly can't get their AFKing in a week. There are multiple threads springing up all the time about how the grind to R40 is this grueling mountain to climb, and then some raider comes on and says you can get to R40 in a week? [edit].

The PvP weapons are not BiS in any tier they appear in, that's just a load of rubbish right there. They also don't have max DPS. If you compare each tier then the PvE weapons are all better for raiding.

PvP weapons should have +Hit/Focus on them because Hit/Focus is a stat that affects PvP hugely. Without Hit/Focus in PvP your performance goes way down. [edit]

PvP progression was intentionally staggered so those poor raiders out there wouldn't feel the self-imposed compunction to be forced to PvP for weapons. Even when 1.9 comes out PvE players are going to be ahead of the game. Seriously you make it sound like the day 1.9 comes out there is going to be a horde of PvPers who are R50, buying up R50 weapons, and then go tearing off into ID to destroy everything in their path. Just with their PvP weapons and gear mind you. Because apparently, when you raid in nothing but PvP gear, you only need 150 Hit/Focus because their DPS is soooo huuuuuuuge everything dies so fast, and valor substitutes for toughness. Amirite?

Even when 1.9 hits, it's going to take time to get to R50, and then even longer to gain the necessary favor to buy them. Given the favour cap, a PvPer can't just save up all the favour he needs to buy the weapons as soon as he hits R50 anyway, so that will take even more time to get. I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that, for a majority of players, it is going to take them a lot longer to get to R50, and buy the weapons.

You're freaking out about absolutely nothing.

[-Shiva-]

The best solution is to remove the effect of hit in pvp entirely ,or conversely remove the chance to parry/dodge/block in pvp.

Forcing pve centric players to pvp for a weapon or gear upgrade is not a good solution.

PvE centric players are not forced to PvP for a weapon or gear upgrade. They don't have to step foot in a warfront to get gear that is viable for raiding. Currently that isn't true for PvPers, I have to raid to get weapons that actually function.

No PvE player need ever gain a single point of favour to be able to raid in this game.