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Thread: A solution to the hit/focus issue in PVP

  1. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danitsia View Post
    So the miss rate is 5%.... 5 misses for every 100 swings? That seems awfully LOW. If its not about having hit... (and I am DUMB, so please bare with me) why are we asking for hit to be added to PvP for a 5% miss rate?

    And Rogues use PvP weapons in PvE --- its best in slot for some of them even without the +hit on them, no? So they have access to a BIS item through their PvP.
    No the miss rate would be 25%, base 5% + 20% for the rogues parry/dodge.

    Quote Originally Posted by Danitsia View Post
    So why shouldn't you be able to use a PvE weapon for PvP? What exactly is the unbalance there?
    That PvE weapons are able to bypass most of that 25%. Hence PvE weapons give a big advantage in PvP, which is borderline moronic, one of the reasons better designed games properly separate PvP & PvE gear (Or make them both equally usable in both aspects of them game)
    Last edited by Flimble; 05-31-2012 at 07:50 AM.

  2. #107
    Plane Touched Shyessa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaros View Post
    Add it to the synergy crystals.
    Give it a small progression (EG the R7 ones would have 70, R19/80, R31/90, R40/95), but I think the P50 crystals should have 100 hit/focus (or a PVP equivalent stat) on them. 100 Hit is a solid enough number to still allow for defense via cooldowns like Bend Like the Reed and Side Steps, but eliminates the passive RNG from dodge and parry that players gain just by wearing gear. 100 focus is enough to eliminate any chance of resisting anything in PVP.

    If the stat is on the synergy crystal, that means the character has to be wearing at least 4 pieces of PVP gear, which should entirely eliminate the need to use PVE weapons in PVP, and it would also make the allure of PVE synergy crystals in PVP lessened.

    Just as well, if the hit/focus is on the synergy, it makes it borderline useless in PVE, because any raider worth their weight in tissue paper is using a PVE synergy crystal, and the stat gains from the PVP synergy crystal are otherwise negligible.

    It's a win/win.
    Excellent idea. You have my vote.

  3. #108
    Rift Master Danitsia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flimble View Post
    No the miss rate would be 25%, base 5% + 20% for the rogues parry/dodge.

    That PvE weapons are able to bypass most of that 25%. Hence PvE weapons give a big advantage in PvP, which is borderline moronic, one of the reasons better designed games properly separate PvP & PvE gear (Or make them both equally usable in both aspects of them game)

    Firstly, thank you so much for answering that for me without putting me down for not knowing. I do not often PvP in this game because I do not enjoy "instanced" PvP at all. I personally find it repetative and boring, I am all about world PvP (that's prob cuz I was RR11L8 healer in DAOC).

    Secondly, soooo only ROUGES have that 20% increase? Everyone else is subject to just the 5%? Seems like we shouldn't have to add +hit to anything, just remove the class effects that bump up the parry/dodge vs. player characters that makes it NECESSARY to have +hit to retaliate. :P

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  4. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danitsia View Post
    Firstly, thank you so much for answering that for me without putting me down for not knowing. I do not often PvP in this game because I do not enjoy "instanced" PvP at all. I personally find it repetative and boring, I am all about world PvP (that's prob cuz I was RR11L8 healer in DAOC).

    Secondly, soooo only ROUGES have that 20% increase? Everyone else is subject to just the 5%? Seems like we shouldn't have to add +hit to anything, just remove the class effects that bump up the parry/dodge vs. player characters that makes it NECESSARY to have +hit to retaliate. :P
    No Rogues aren't the only calling that have passive defenses. Warriors get a lot of parry/block and some dodge. Rogues get a lot of dodge, and some parry.

    Pre-1.8 there were some Cleric specs that had very high levels of defense that required lots and lots of Hit to punch through. I don't know how much that got changed, a Cleric player could answer that better than me.

    But in any case all callings get some passive defenses because parry/block are based off of strength, and dodge is based off dexterity. I think there are ways for Clerics to convert their wisdom into strength for parry/block purposes as well... but again, a Cleric player would know more about that than me.

    Having no, to low levels of Hit in PvP is very noticeable. It really makes a very big difference in a Rogue/Warrior's PvP performance.

  5. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Credo View Post
    I'd rather they just remove hit altogether so defensive cooldowns would actually have meaning, or cap hit low in PvP since sword and board warriors would be insane if no one had any hit.
    or they could buff the defensive CDs instead

    Quote Originally Posted by Flimble View Post
    (Or make them both equally usable in both aspects of them game)
    Then you get a bunch of QQing emo drama queens having hissy fits about "welfare epics" again - people who refer to them as that want some serious slaps as it belittles the time and effort (grind) people put in to get said weapons, that would be like calling ID pve epics "welfare pvp epics"....
    Last edited by Guardian1uk; 06-01-2012 at 08:02 PM.

  6. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Naesraen View Post
    I like the idea, but what's to stop people running PvP gear *and* HK/ID weapons for monster amounts of +hit/+focus?

    I mean, I do fully understand the ridiculousness of +hit in PvP (focus is not so important), and the need to either remove it (I'm guessing, given how long it's been since the acknowledgement that +hit was unbalancing without anything being done to fix it, that removing it in PvP is non-trivial) or mitigate it via +hit on PvP gear. It's just that the solution would have to NOT create a situation where PvP+PvE gear combos = monster amounts of hit. And if you allow it on synergy crystals, then combining that with HK/ID gear *would* give monster amounts of hit.

    On the other hand, at least if it was on synergy crystals, people wearing PvP gear would also be able to get enough +hit, so it would be a start.

    Focus is just as important, focus strips resistance values which removes potential elemental damage mitigation.

    Unfortunately since the focus requirement for raiding is so insane (300-500) but the overall max resistance values you can get (44 Pyro/22 Archon) are about 120 for each element (12% mitigation) resistance values thus become "junk" in PvP which is in all honesty unbalanced since it basically makes components of abilities (like ground of power) useless.

    400 focus = 800 resistance required

    Maximum resistance obtainable = 120 resistance

    So that effectively makes 1 point in pyro useless and 4 points in archon useless.

    I think they need to have a re-think about how focus affects resistance values because it seems like the focus/hit rating v players is WAYYYY off balance since for monsters and raiding you generally require a lot higher.

    If they made it so 1 focus = 0.25 resistance stripping (rather than the x2) then it would make a lot more sense.. that way if you have 120 fire resistance you would need 400 focus to strip 100 of it which leaves 20 resistance left providing at least SOME mitigation for the ability.

    At present though "since i think monsters have elemental resistance values of their own" focus strips resistance FAR too easily.


    Its a lot of things like this that make PvE gear superior to PvP gear in PvP.. which naturally is wrong.

    I also believe that splitting and dividing the population into "pve here" and "pvpers there" is just absolutely idiotic because it acts as a barrier preventing each side of the crowd from experiencing the other side aswell as forcing each player to carry around two different sets of gear so they can swap out incase they feel like doing a dungeon.

    The effect of this on World PvP is even greater.. if im running around in PvE gear killing some monsters and somebody jumps me "OOPS im not wearing PvP gear!" BAM.. even though the gear was in my inventory and i might have actually won the battle if i didn't have to swap my armor out pre-emptively :P

    This all would actually apply if not for PvE equipments MASSIVE advantage over PvP gear.. which allows PvE'rs to experience high end PvP content but not vice versa allowing high end PvPers to experience PvE content, basically sandbagging all the PvPers

    Oh and if Valor and Vengeance actually worked (which they don't.. at least not very well)

    PvP gear should be just that. THE BEST in pvp. but at present it isnt, its PvE gear and obviously SOMETHING has to be done about it.

  7. #112
    Ascendant Eughe's Avatar
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    I don't believe mobs have ele res. they dropped that concept since they didn't want certain souls to become useless in certain situation, like Pyros in ID or Necros in RoS.

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