A solution to the hit/focus issue in PVP

[Naesraen]

So, I'd say something along the lines of:

Vengence = (1/2 rating to Hit) and (1/4th rating to focus)
*Reason being, it takes far far less focus to get through achievable defences in pvp than it takes hit.
Valor = (1/35th rating to elemental resists)
*At 1400 valor, this would be 40 resist. Not a lot, but would make the elemental vs physical damage slightly less lopsided.

That's about the best suggestion I've read - can I like it more than once?

If this was codeable (I have no idea if it is or isn't), this would be the most elegant solution to the +hit/+focus problem - you'd get it on PvP gear, you'd have no real advantage using PvE gear, and it wouldn't have an impact on PvE.

[Laban of C O]

I want valor/vengeance on all of my ID raiding gear as well as the PvE crystals. So that we, as subscribers, aren't limited to one pvp set of gear where everyone has the same effin crystal bonus. Makes for a funner pvp enviroment dontcha think?

Let's not think within Trion's box. You all know that Rift pvp is fail. Having just one set of gear to use player vs player is shameful only to be pigeon holed into wearing valor/vengeance.

Ohhh I get it now... you don't want to have to spend months grinding out some pvp gear to pvp with, you want your buddies in your raid to carry you through and get you "better than pvp gear" drops that you can pvp with. Makes perfect sense, bravo sir.

[Sebb]

Ohhh I get it now... you don't want to have to spend months grinding out some pvp gear to pvp with, you want your buddies in your raid to carry you through and get you "better than pvp gear" drops that you can pvp with. Makes perfect sense, bravo sir.

LMAO!

If by "spend months grinding out some pvp gear" you really mean "take 3 percocets and smash my face against a keyboard for 18 hours during PS weekend with favor pots to get a full P8 set" - you're absolutely right.

PVP gear in this game is stupid easy to get. Any idiot can afk through wfs and get it. I know lots of people that did that. Had to kick quite a few people out of my guild for botting to R40 too. The cost should be tripled in my opinion. Vanilla wow did it right. Not only did you have to grind, but you had to compete against your friends to get the best gear. When you can, at your absolute best - only get a piece of set gear every other week in pvp, then they'll have it right.

[Zaros]

I want valor/vengeance on all of my ID raiding gear as well as the PvE crystals. So that we, as subscribers, aren't limited to one pvp set of gear where everyone has the same effin crystal bonus. Makes for a funner pvp enviroment dontcha think?

Let's not think within Trion's box. You all know that Rift pvp is fail. Having just one set of gear to use player vs player is shameful only to be pigeon holed into wearing valor/vengeance.

For that to happen, we'd need a complete crossover of PVE and PVP gear, EG they'd have all the PVE synergy set effects on PVP synergy crystals, as well as hit and toughness on PVP gear, which would screw with the progression entirely I'm afraid.

I think we should focus on the issue at hand because +hit is an extremely necessary stat in PVP, it's been acknowledged by Trion that they're aware of it, and this is a solid solution to fix it.

As soon as Valor becomes a pivotal stat in PVE, we can start to look at your suggestions.

[Adastra]

I just want to use Side Steps and actually dodge something, dammit!

Defensive cooldowns are fine in that respect for RNG. I just don't like normal RNG where you just simply miss an attack because you were unlucky with a roll.

[Steelwind]

Ohhh I get it now... you don't want to have to spend months grinding out some pvp gear to pvp with, you want your buddies in your raid to carry you through and get you "better than pvp gear" drops that you can pvp with. Makes perfect sense, bravo sir.

LOL wut? It only took me 1 month to hit rank 40. And that was pugging WFs and doing my dailies. Don't act like Rift pvp is some exclusive club with all the greatness in the world. You've been living in that cave for too long. Actually, stay in your cave. The world won't miss you at all.

[Laban of C O]

LOL wut? It only took me 1 month to hit rank 40. And that was pugging WFs and doing my dailies. Don't act like Rift pvp is some exclusive club with all the greatness in the world. You've been living in that cave for too long. Actually, stay in your cave. The world won't miss you at all.

You are truly the most obtuse contributor to the forums I've seen in some time, and that is an impressive feat. I guess I didn't take into account that they have the "wellfare" prestige pots these days heh, and you can hit 40 more quickly. My prior post remains though, your stating you want pvp only stats placed on pve raiding gear where it will have 0 impact is one of the more puerile notions I've seen in some time. So, please let the adults discuss actual ideas toward improving the pvp mechanics a bit. We'll pay you some attention in another thread deary.

[Steelwind]

You are truly the most obtuse contributor to the forums I've seen in some time, and that is an impressive feat. I guess I didn't take into account that they have the "wellfare" prestige pots these days heh, and you can hit 40 more quickly. My prior post remains though, your stating you want pvp only stats placed on pve raiding gear where it will have 0 impact is one of the more puerile notions I've seen in some time. So, please let the adults discuss actual ideas toward improving the pvp mechanics a bit. We'll pay you some attention in another thread deary.

Yes please let the adults discuss this. Go back to your cave. I understand that you want everyone to wear the exact same pvp gear with the exact same pvp crystal bonus and your mind cannot comprehend how restricted and boring this is. This is the last time I will respond to your trolling. I can sympathize your limited capacity and I will agree to disagree. There are some who don't want change and can't think outside of the box. But I'm one of those who believes that PvP Rift shouldn't be restricted to just ONE set of gear. WOW what a concept. Goodbye troll.

[Leif]

PVP gear shouldn't be providing any hit. The only sources of hit in PVP should be runes and spec based hit bonuses, with PVE gear itself having no carry over.

If you gear or spec for mitigation, it should matter.

[Laban of C O]

Yes please let the adults discuss this. Go back to your cave. I understand that you want everyone to wear the exact same pvp gear with the exact same pvp crystal bonus and your mind cannot comprehend how restricted and boring this is. This is the last time I will respond to your trolling. I can sympathize your limited capacity and I will agree to disagree. There are some who don't want change and can't think outside of the box. But I'm one of those who believes that PvP Rift shouldn't be restricted to just ONE set of gear. WOW what a concept. Goodbye troll.

Damn you are obtuse arn't you? First of all.. I have different gear loadouts for all of my pvp builds. Some of which include utilizing hk crystals and set bonuses. Mixes of pvp and pve gear... because the hit mechanic is broken in pvp, AND they make raiding gear far superior than pvp gear stat wise. Hell, I use various pve trinkets in pvp as well to cheese things. I have a backpack and a half full of gear that is utilized depending on what build I'm using and what foes I'm fighting. But, regardless of all of that.. your desire to have pvp only stats placed on pve raid gear... where it will have 0 effect on the intended mechanic of the gear... is one of the most moronic things I have heard in some time. Would I like to see a wider variety of gear on pvp vendors, including more tanky oriented gear... valor vs vengence, defection/block boosting, and other such mechanics... along with more interesting synergy crystals? Yes, that would be splendid. I do not think that pvpers should HAVE to raid to get good gear to pvp in, currently it is a huge advantage. It is an advantage that I have been making use of since just shortly after HK came out. I switched to a progression guild specifically to cheese the gear disparity between pvp and raid gear to my advantage. Cheers, my dear addle-pate.

[Laban of C O]

PVP gear shouldn't be providing any hit. The only sources of hit in PVP should be runes and spec based hit bonuses, with PVE gear itself having no carry over.

If you gear or spec for mitigation, it should matter.

There are certain builds that are pretty much un-hittable/killable without cheesing pve weapons and equipment into pvp. SnB warriors speced with block, and trollicar clerics. I agree that specing for defences should make some difference... but there is a problem here in that the pvp gear provides no method for a melee based character to overcome these defences. Mages/clerics lack this issue, as the amount of elemental resistance that players can gear/spec for is paultry and makes a rune or two all any mage or cleric would ever need to always hit thier foe. A melee rogue with 0 hit, is going to find a number of builds utterly un-killable if pve gear had no carry over to pvp.

That being said, it creates a need for one of a couple things to happen:
A) We do away with hit all together in pvp, which some have suggested. Players would always hit, and avoidance builds would be worthless in pvp. I do not personally like this suggestion.
B) We try to provide some mechanic to allow non-raiding pvp focused players (Melee only) to not be at a distinct disadvantage due to the mechanics of the game.

As stated earlier, mages and clerics really don't experience this issue. Providing a conversion mechanic for vengence/valor stats to equivalent (perhaps pvp only) hit/resistance seems to me to be one of the most simple and effective ways to balance this. Others have suggested other methods.

[Leif]

There are certain builds that are pretty much un-hittable/killable without cheesing pve weapons and equipment into pvp. SnB warriors speced with block, and trollicar clerics. I agree that specing for defences should make some difference... but there is a problem here in that the pvp gear provides no method for a melee based character to overcome these defences. Mages/clerics lack this issue, as the amount of elemental resistance that players can gear/spec for is paultry and makes a rune or two all any mage or cleric would ever need to always hit thier foe. A melee rogue with 0 hit, is going to find a number of builds utterly un-killable if pve gear had no carry over to pvp.

That being said, it creates a need for one of a couple things to happen:
A) We do away with hit all together in pvp, which some have suggested. Players would always hit, and avoidance builds would be worthless in pvp. I do not personally like this suggestion.
B) We try to provide some mechanic to allow non-raiding pvp focused players (Melee only) to not be at a distinct disadvantage due to the mechanics of the game.

As stated earlier, mages and clerics really don't experience this issue. Providing a conversion mechanic for vengence/valor stats to equivalent (perhaps pvp only) hit/resistance seems to me to be one of the most simple and effective ways to balance this. Others have suggested other methods.

So your answer is to ignore the actual problem, that tank builds and rogue specs can get rediculous mitigation in PVP?

Just lower the effectiveness of mitigation abilities in PVP. Or ignore the tanks in PVP because the warrior and cleric ones aren't doing any damage anyway. RS combos have been itching for a survivability nerf for ages for the damage they do too.

[Laban of C O]

So your answer is to ignore the actual problem, that tank builds and rogue specs can get rediculous mitigation in PVP?

Just lower the effectiveness of mitigation abilities in PVP. Or ignore the tanks in PVP because the warrior and cleric ones aren't doing any damage anyway. RS combos have been itching for a survivability nerf for ages for the damage they do too.

RS ones got a nerf to their shield soak, 1/3rd nerf in pvp a patch or two back. Most of them do **** damage as well, which is why I refuse to have a 38/28 spec. It's garbage dps. There are various SnB warriors who can put out some very good dps, killing multiple folks without a lot of issue. Cleric troll specs are not much damage though, I'll give you that. Then again... troll specs still win warfronts. Can anyone say.. whitefail?

My answer is not to ignore a problem, but to try to find a solution. My suggest is to utilize the pvp specific stats as a base for providing a solution to said builds in pvp. Thus making pvp gear and the pvp gear specific attributes desirable in pvp. Nerfing the **** out of the avoidance and mitigation that builds can have in pvp is another method for solving it I suppose, but it would just make it harder on new folks coming into pvp and specing into these defensive builds if their builds were just nerfed to ****. At least with my suggestion it would be those with higher tier gear who would have the "pvp hit" to hit them, and not every green recruit.

[Leif]

There are various SnB warriors who can put out some very good dps, killing multiple folks without a lot of issue.

If they are doing good damage, they aren't tanks. Every point not spent in a DPS soul with the %damage increase talent is ~2% dps loss at minimum. They are dps specced warriors with a shield. Lowering PVP mitigation would solve this, as being DPS specced with a P8 shield nets you about 30% block.

[Marduk]

Make it a hit stat that only works in pvp .. problem solved with all the raiders crying. Memorizing boss fights is hard!