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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: The new armor sets. Mmmmm... actual itemization.

  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revim View Post
    Maybe it is karma issue. Mages were getting bad itemization with HK and now it is time for clerics to cry for half a year. Next raid tier, they will pick up new class to mess with.

    But, learning from experience, when you will be shouting 'more sc, less sp!' for half a year, please always add 'for clerics' at the end. Seems that mages crying for 'more sp, less sc' got cleric gear changed as a collateral damage...
    The issue is the trade off on the ID itemization just isn't worth it. On lots of those pieces you are dropping 30 crit for 10 spell power and like 2-3 endurance. Its not even an upgrade for the specs where spell power is drastically better than crit. Over the relic HK gear 3 pieces are effectively an upgrade, and it's a very very tiny one at that.

    As for justicar tank gear, while block is better than parry/dodge, post 1.8 the difference is far smaller (especially for dodge) and while block would be better, I don't really think its a big enough deal to be up in arms about. We're going to be no where near the parry cap, and more dodge isn't a bad thing.

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revim View Post
    I think that gain on drops/weapons is bigger than few points. As far as armor is concerned, it is given 'for free' as a side effect of gaining marks.

    I suppose that we just have to stop thinking about armor as being the main reason for going to raids (gear-wise), but rather focus on drops (weapons/wands/rings/trinkets/etc). That said, maybe new synergy crystals will be soooo cool that we will drool after armor as well. For me, after the buffs, HK armor was already a non-issue - only reason to get it was to reach 4-piece synergy bonus, stat gains are so neglible compared to crafted/raid-1-best in slot that I routinely pass on hexed items so people who are addicted to orange color can have their fun. Trinkets and weapons are completely different subject...
    Dropped items should be > mark items IMO, but that's a different argument. Noticeable increases (not necessarily per item, but overall) is what people enjoy after all the hours spent raiding a new dungeon where you are pushing everything to the max.

    Personally, if I crit for say 900 with HK gear raid buffed, then after ID gear I crit for 950... I'm pretty sure I'd say it's not worth it, over and above the initial clearing fun/etc.

    Yes, trinkets and weapons are normally the biggest upgrades. Those and synergy crystals. But the frequency of trinket drops, let alone amount of GOOD ones, are far and few between... At least speaking about HK.

    I like to see my character progress, and the more difficult an encounter is, the better the rewards should be. If that's not the case or it's only marginal, I'd rather spend my time playing/doing something else.

    Inevitably the content will be nerfed to the point of it being extremely easy to complete. I value my time vs. rewards and I have no ego driving me to be a world first vs. the extra hours it took to obtain some marginally better item. Again, just me... But I will make an assumption here and say there are more "casual type" of players over hardcore raiders that push for firsts.
    The first issue I would like feedback on is the Power Regeneration. I have tweaked it to a point but I need feedback on it from actual players (You guys) in a real world environment to fine tune it. The value is not final and will likely need to be changed. The goal is to minimize the use and need for Tablets and make players who do not use them more viable without completely removing the use of the Tablets in game

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juff View Post
    As for justicar tank gear, while block is better than parry/dodge, post 1.8 the difference is far smaller (especially for dodge) and while block would be better, I don't really think its a big enough deal to be up in arms about. We're going to be no where near the parry cap, and more dodge isn't a bad thing.
    Except when mechanics can't be dodged/parried but can be blocked/deflected, which makes block/deflect much better overall than what spreadsheet calcs say.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by DTM300 View Post
    Min/max is dumb when it's only +1-3 per piece. If it's 5-10 per... Then it can add up. No one wants to put in that much time (excluding the hardcore raiding guilds) for such minor upgrades. I play the game for fun and ID will be fun I'm sure. But the amount of time it will take to progress vs. the minor upgrades in gear will deter me from raiding as much until nerfs get thrown out to ID. If the increases are larger than 1-3, then my incentive goes up to try and down bosses, above and beyond just the fun factor.
    Someone had made the comment that we needed more then 5 stats to have gear be interesting. I pointed out that no matter how many stats you have its still about min/max as one stat will be better then something else. I don't know where your post came from.

    Just as a side note, it may sound minor but once you add everything up, full BiS T3 is over 200 SP better then full BiS T2 for mages. I'm pretty happy with the mage gear so far.
    Last edited by lusciifi; 04-04-2012 at 10:13 AM.

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by raoul View Post
    Very nice work for all ..... but clerics.

    DPS-Crits-needy clerics are already talking about keeping their gold HK stuff instead of playing with this ID stuff.

    Awful, awful, awful : '(
    Is it possible for Clerics to not whine about everything in the game? [edit].
    Last edited by Augureze; 04-05-2012 at 01:13 PM. Reason: Trolling

  6. #51
    RIFT Guide Writer Noshei's Avatar
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    Frankly I'm amazed by all the crying so far. I will gladly give up 100 SC to gain 50 SP, and know I came out better off.

    Clerics value SP a ton more than SC and the only soul that needs to reach a specific SC point is Shaman (For Jolt to stay on CD you need ~30%).


    The minor increase in stats also falls inline with the current upgrades from T1 to T2, and with the major gear changes they made with 1.7.

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noshei View Post
    Frankly I'm amazed by all the crying so far. I will gladly give up 100 SC to gain 50 SP, and know I came out better off.

    Clerics value SP a ton more than SC and the only soul that needs to reach a specific SC point is Shaman (For Jolt to stay on CD you need ~30%).


    The minor increase in stats also falls inline with the current upgrades from T1 to T2, and with the major gear changes they made with 1.7.
    Inquis and Sent both have a massive modifier for spell crit, so it seems silly to not take advantage of it. Why would they give us such easy access to said modifier if they aren't going to give us the crit rating to back it up? It's not like we're Mages and can generate massive amounts of crit passively just by wearing our primary gear. If we recieved crit from Wisdom, this wouldn't be an issue.
    4/4 FT 5/5 EE 4/4 GA 3/3 IG
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  8. #53
    General of Telara Hawkmoon0028's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chanalia View Post
    The ID Cleric gear is an absolute joke. I can't see myself upgrading to it aside from the pieces that give focus. Unless they do something AMAZING with the set bonuses... I'm really underwhelmed by the stats.

    I know people mentioned that most HK raiders are at the crit cap, but I don't think the Clerics are really that close. At least I'm not. I'm in pretty much full BiS aside from relic helm and chest, and I'm not there yet. I'm at something like 850 crit with gear and 950 when my weapon proc is up from the Bane of Madness. Granted, I'm running a SP source machine. It looks like I'll have to farm up a crit one to make up for what the devs decided to do to the ID gear.

    I really, really hope this itemization is not final.
    I agree completely. I also have mostly BiS cleric gear, and I cringe at the thought of losing so much crit for so little SP gain.

    Hope Trion re-evaluates this soon.... as in, before ID is released- not after.

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  9. #54
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    Looks good for rogues, I gain AP on every bis gear switching to ID epics, and lose a minor amount of crit.

    I might actually have to have 1-2 crit essences in my bis core.. though I doubt it.
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  10. #55
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    End >>>> Block >>>>>>> Dodge >> Parry

    It is a bad thing.. yet I don't see what the OP is talking about as I see no ID vendor items replacing dodge or block for parry. Usually you dodge replacing parry (which is a good thing as it takes less dodge rating to equal each % of dodge compared to parry, and there is no known dodge cap)
    40% is dodge cap.

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  11. #56
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    As a rogue compared to my live gear which is pretty much BiS the epic ID set is -52 crit and +52 AP. The relic set is -36 crit and +88 AP. I will still be easily critcapped without any +crit items/essences. It's a step in the right direction and I like the tanking gear. The deflect on them is looking real nice.

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by lusciifi View Post
    Adding more stats before an expansion would just be silly.

    And number of stats doesn't make gear more interesting. EQ2 had something along the lines of 30 stats and it didn't make the upgrades any less clear. No matter what you are going to have stat weights and it's all about min/max.
    Why would it just be silly? I honestly don't understand that.

    If number of stats doesn't make gear more interesting, why do we have multiple stats? Can't we just have "Power" in that case? I'm not arguing for this, nor for "20k+ different stats", I'm just curious to what is actually good with having the same 5 stats on every piece of armor and weapon. Also, more stats could remove the linear min/maxing we have right now.

  13. #58
    RIFT Guide Writer Noshei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anuhart View Post
    40% is dodge cap.
    This has yet to be confirmed or proven in game.

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noshei View Post
    Frankly I'm amazed by all the crying so far. I will gladly give up 100 SC to gain 50 SP, and know I came out better off.

    Clerics value SP a ton more than SC and the only soul that needs to reach a specific SC point is Shaman (For Jolt to stay on CD you need ~30%).


    The minor increase in stats also falls inline with the current upgrades from T1 to T2, and with the major gear changes they made with 1.7.
    Yeah I'd gladly take the 50 SP over 100 SC if it was a change applied to our current HK set. But upgrading an entire set for that kind of sidegrade? It's pretty disapointing, when all they have to do is add 20-30 crit on a few pieces that are missing them so we get the same kind of power gained/crit lost than other classes.

    (And the 40% dodge cap was figured out by someone maxing out a level 1. Not like anyone above level 5-10 can reach it with any kind of gear, that's like 1700 dodge rating at 50)

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gery View Post
    As a rogue compared to my live gear which is pretty much BiS the epic ID set is -52 crit and +52 AP. The relic set is -36 crit and +88 AP. I will still be easily critcapped without any +crit items/essences. It's a step in the right direction and I like the tanking gear. The deflect on them is looking real nice.
    Yup, the swap is a minor dps gain but Im glad it provides a more manageable stat distribution. Im really happy for this change.

    A little concerned about some weapons (totems) proccing on soul specific spells. It not only forces the item to go to a specific class (not a huge deal there) but a specific soul to be predominant

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