Cleric Healer Changes in 1.8

[Allmightyone]

The reasion they wanna nerf warden not because of itself, but because of the stackable hots. 3 wardens you will have 12 ss, 3 hs, 3 hf on you almost all the time. Thats like 1.5-2k hps even with 50% healing debuff from warrior.

Yes, Warden itself is strong.

Just to be clear, I'm not talking about a sentinel / warden mix but a full 51 warden spec. I personnaly go into justicar to take the armor bonus and the extra to healing taken (so I have DoL available). When I'm playing agaisnt random PUGs I can jump and run in the middle of their entire team and come out alive but only because nobody is draining my mana, silencing me and sometime not even applying a healing debuff. This goes incredibly wrong sometimes when there's a good player hidden somewhere but most of the time people are running a aoe spec with fluff ST or don't even bother to focus fire. It's not overpowered when playing agasint good premade though.

This doesn't change the fact that this patch is killing warden healing in PvP.

[Imbaslap]

im sure the nerfs will be reverted back some when they see warriors powerhouse entire teams as parachamp with ID weapons. i dont think there is any reactive healing capable on the pts that can stop 2 warriors on anyone.

warden needed a nerf for the cross hoting. but its hard to get that balance without affecting the lone 51 warden. hence why trion tried for the parallel hot mechanic change. with this flat nerf, the solo 51 warden healers will feel the brunt of the nerf aside from 3 or 4 warden healers as there cross hoting can still be decent.

which is why i tested that a mix of ward and sent of 35/31 helps alleviate the hot nerf and gives u strong fast healing invocation heals to react to burst with the benefits of warden skills like tidal surge improved, orbs and more.

i havnt tested senticar in pvp on pts yet but im sure thats a heap of aoe healing.

[Gradient]

This really looks like balancing based on edge cases. The amount of times I've been playing warden and had full stacks of regens on myself and from 2 other wardens: zero, out of thousands of warfronts, zero. Half the time I'm eradicated so persistently I have no stacks of anything on me at all when it matters. It's edge case premades mentality, I've just never seen these trio's of wardens who heal nobody else but run around as a tripod never losing los to use every gcd they have purely to keep streams on themselves.

This "holy warden tripod" that's being balanced against, I've never seen it in any real application, ever.

If you go after heal stacking, then you also have to go after purge stacking, mana drain stacking, and all sorts of other stuff - 10second immunity to purges each time you are subject to any purge? Another 10sec immunity for all new mana drain effects?

[Xnon]

After all of the back and forth of changes and revisions, I've decided to make a new thread laying out all of the 1.8 Cleric healer changes as they currently stand on the PTS.

Warden[LIST][*]Soothing Stream: Now heals 60% of normal in PvP (actually 50% on PTS, but this will change soon).


Discuss!

no zinbik its not bugged , its 60% cuz of the insta cast pvp healing nerf.

[Byona]

The last thing to note is that we're currently evaluating whether we need to make PvP adjustments to the heal proccing trinkets and greater essences.
Discuss!

That would be a bit too much, i hope it doesnt happen.

[Rudolf]

This really looks like balancing based on edge cases. The amount of times I've been playing warden and had full stacks of regens on myself and from 2 other wardens: zero, out of thousands of warfronts, zero. Half the time I'm eradicated so persistently I have no stacks of anything on me at all when it matters. It's edge case premades mentality, I've just never seen these trio's of wardens who heal nobody else but run around as a tripod never losing los to use every gcd they have purely to keep streams on themselves.

This "holy warden tripod" that's being balanced against, I've never seen it in any real application, ever.

If you go after heal stacking, then you also have to go after purge stacking, mana drain stacking, and all sorts of other stuff - 10second immunity to purges each time you are subject to any purge? Another 10sec immunity for all new mana drain effects?

You know what, at first they try to remove stacks of hots so max u can get 4ss, 1 hf, 1 hs on you. But due to HUNDREDS of complains, they decide to revert that which results a pvp hots nerf.

Just like dev warned before, if you want revert the stack then be prepared for hots nerf in pvp.

[Oktabi]

• If you are on a PvP server and are concerned about the dangers of PvP, I would suggest transferring to a PvE server.

Someone showed Zinbik how to open the sugar jar - now please keep him hydrated and watch opened windows, we don't want him gone, do we?

[Flashmemory]

im sure the nerfs will be reverted back some when they see warriors powerhouse entire teams as parachamp with ID weapons. i dont think there is any reactive healing capable on the pts that can stop 2 warriors on anyone.

warden needed a nerf for the cross hoting. but its hard to get that balance without affecting the lone 51 warden. hence why trion tried for the parallel hot mechanic change. with this flat nerf, the solo 51 warden healers will feel the brunt of the nerf aside from 3 or 4 warden healers as there cross hoting can still be decent.

which is why i tested that a mix of ward and sent of 35/31 helps alleviate the hot nerf and gives u strong fast healing invocation heals to react to burst with the benefits of warden skills like tidal surge improved, orbs and more.

i havnt tested senticar in pvp on pts yet but im sure thats a heap of aoe healing.

Warrior dps changes are blown out of proportion on forums. para/champ was actually bad the last time i tested it weeks ago. Plus Atrius is going through each ability and nerfing them according to the way he feels is right. I'll even go ahead and mention rift surge is nerf worse than live and maybe based on what I have read the only other OP (but not really) by just reading the notes is death blow crit at 51 point champ with don't make me angry proc. I am completely unbiased. So if you want to test that out be my guess. I'm not testing currently. That finisher will need a subject that is under 30% life and the subject has to crit the warrior to proc don't make me angry.

[Sfira]

This really looks like balancing based on edge cases. The amount of times I've been playing warden and had full stacks of regens on myself and from 2 other wardens: zero, out of thousands of warfronts, zero. Half the time I'm eradicated so persistently I have no stacks of anything on me at all when it matters. It's edge case premades mentality, I've just never seen these trio's of wardens who heal nobody else but run around as a tripod never losing los to use every gcd they have purely to keep streams on themselves.

This "holy warden tripod" that's being balanced against, I've never seen it in any real application, ever.

THIS.

The hypothetical 3-4 warden senario is just that...hypothetical. Sure a premade might go that way....but they could coordinate any 3-4 healers to be "unkillable" anyways....any target focused by 3-4 healers will be damn tough to take down.

In pugs ppl adjust their spec when they see 3-4 healers, they realise that this WF will lack DPS so they switch.

Tbh I think that this nerf is far too harsh....with all the silences, interupts, CC and cast time increase effects, long cast heals wont be viable even with no push back. And even if they do prove somewhat viable, they will be so fustrating to play that few will bother. Clerics will go DoL or DPS....so this nerf will hugely effect ST healing in WF's (I know that is what alot of PvP'ers that DONT heal who wants)

Cheers

[ltank]

I don't see how anyone can deny Wardens being way over the top. Last night I was in a Whitefall Steppes with a bunny hopping fool of a Warden who was the only one that never died and had 200,000 more healing than anyone else in the warfront, and yes there were other healers. Believe me we were focus firing him and I was spamming purges and healing debuffs on him as much as I could. Sometimes my healing debuffs wouldn't stick letting me know that other people were also trying to debuff him too. I know this is one example but I stt situations like this all the time.

1.8 can't come fast enough.

[Kaelani]

...you stop having a mmo and end up with a shooter with headshots pretty much.

The last time I was in a warfront, all I could hear was Unreal Tournament:

LUDICROUS KILL!
LUDICROUS KILL!
LUDICROUS KILL!
LUDICROUS KILL!
LUDICROUS KILL!
LUDICROUS KILL!

That's what the PvPers screamed for.... and that's what they've got.

[Anmila]

I don't see how anyone can deny Wardens being way over the top. Last night I was in a Whitefall Steppes with a bunny hopping fool of a Warden who was the only one that never died and had 200,000 more healing than anyone else in the warfront, and yes there were other healers. Believe me we were focus firing him and I was spamming purges and healing debuffs on him as much as I could. Sometimes my healing debuffs wouldn't stick letting me know that other people were also trying to debuff him too. I know this is one example but I stt situations like this all the time.

1.8 can't come fast enough.

Obviously the 1 warden your talking about with 200k more healing was better geared than the others. Why does everyone think that any 1 non geared player should be able to single-handedly take a p40 healer out? I mean really....

If 3 healers are healing a healer, you still think 3 DPS should be able to take them out? Comon you people with these type of complaints are rediculous.

If any 1 DPS can take out any 1 healer, guess what that means? Healing is useless!!

[Eughe]

I don't see how anyone can deny Wardens being way over the top. Last night I was in a Whitefall Steppes with a bunny hopping fool of a Warden who was the only one that never died and had 200,000 more healing than anyone else in the warfront, and yes there were other healers. Believe me we were focus firing him and I was spamming purges and healing debuffs on him as much as I could. Sometimes my healing debuffs wouldn't stick letting me know that other people were also trying to debuff him too. I know this is one example but I stt situations like this all the time.

1.8 can't come fast enough.

He took on 200k more healing than anyone else? Including the other healers, and you guys were FFing him? Or was it that he healed 200k more than anyone else (which is a weird statement).

Sounds like he did a fine job keeping those other healers safe. Keeping the rest of you occupied while the other heals healed their team, and caused you to rage of the forums. I wanna shake this guys hand.


But of course, hes the fool.


You praying for 1.8 wont make you less bad however, you thought wardens were tough..

[Patchkid]

Obviously the 1 warden your talking about with 200k more healing was better geared than the others. Why does everyone think that any 1 non geared player should be able to single-handedly take a p40 healer out? I mean really....

If 3 healers are healing a healer, you still think 3 DPS should be able to take them out? Comon you people with these type of complaints are rediculous.

If any 1 DPS can take out any 1 healer, guess what that means? Healing is useless!!

The nerf here is fine and valid. Arguing it won't change anyone's mind at this point. Wardens (myself being a P40 warden healer) are extremely hard to kill to the point of needing a little toning down.

It's not like Clerics are running around soloing on PvP servers in a Warden spec. That doesn't work so great, so if you're playing with your team properly, the HoTs nerf will be less detrimental than everyone is making it sound. Go 38/28, and use the new lovely no-pushback healing invocation at 1.5 second cast.

Anyone serious about healing their team is still going to do great if they adapt. The only problem that remains -- people are still going to ***** about healing.

[Anmila]

The nerf here is fine and valid. Arguing it won't change anyone's mind at this point. Wardens (myself being a P40 warden healer) are extremely hard to kill to the point of needing a little toning down.

It's not like Clerics are running around soloing on PvP servers in a Warden spec. That doesn't work so great, so if you're playing with your team properly, the HoTs nerf will be less detrimental than everyone is making it sound. Go 38/28, and use the new lovely no-pushback healing invocation at 1.5 second cast.

Anyone serious about healing their team is still going to do great if they adapt. The only problem that remains -- people are still going to ***** about healing.

I already play that spec. The changes are definatly not warrented to the extent that they are being nerfed as your suggesting they are.

You even stated that fact that its not like I can run around as a warden killing everyone and not dying. The 1 thing wardens can do is survive and help others to survive. With these changes, wardens will be forced to heal only themselves to remain alive, and even then it will only last until everyone else around you drops dead from not getting more heals.

I dont see why its an issue when DPS knows that the warden will NEVER turn around and kill them. NEVER.