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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: Warden Changes. Force clerics to dps.

  1. #31
    Ascendant Byona's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Imbaslap View Post
    like i mentioned in other threads about this change. seems if u want an efficient "heal grp" in a WF. u might as well have a warden spec or some puri/sent ish spec. cuz if theres a warden p40 on my team. ill just inflate the heals as 51 sent with comm spamming. =/ or raid shields in puri.

    this might get more than 1 healing soul in pvp now cuz of this nerf. tho i dunno if its for the good or bad.
    i'd say its bad because DPS is balanced against warden heals, sentinel and puri cannot survive the dmg people do in warfronts.

    Apart from that 1 healing cleric per WF i'd say we either go icar or full dps now.

    Can have two wardens or sentinel/wardens on games like codex where you can split your group and make sure u never meet the other cleric to spread the heals across the entire map
    Last edited by Byona; 03-16-2012 at 09:46 PM.
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  2. #32
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    icar might tip the balance tho if theres enough clerics specced into it. but ya, fights will go much quicker and this actually might make certain classes dip into tank trees again just to survive now.

    IE. SnB wars/guard phase rogues.

    i wouldnt be shocked to see more of these after this nerf. but who knows. =/
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  3. #33
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    Yeah... Every decent pvp build used warden. I think pvp atm is in a pretty good spot between heals and dps. This change is good for trash pug vs pug who just wanna kill the first thing they see. This change is horrible for group 5v5's and pre-made wf's where there is strategy and competition.

    Don't do this trion. Its a massive nerf to an entire soul. Unless you are trying to kill warden completely, you might wanna revert and not "quad-tap" the soul. If you need to make heals a bit less effective you might wanna do it one step at a time to find a good equilibrium instead of over nerfing a soul and killing it.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akerling View Post
    WARDEN
    * Deluge: The Revitalizing Water HoT now scales based on any HoTs existing on the target, not just ones you cast on them.
    * Healing Flood: Now has a total stack size on a target of 1, instead of 1 per caster.
    * Overflow: Now heals for less in PvP situations.
    * Soothing Stream: Now has a total stack size on a target of 4, instead of 4 per caster
    WHAT?! Noooooooooooooooooooooooooo! Holy ****, that's bad beyond words!

    I rolled my Cleric to HEAL not dps! And definitely not to run this hybrid ******** where all my heals are coming out of my ****ing tank soul. Half the clerics in my raids at least have enough warden for Healing Flood. 95% of Clerics I've seen all rock warden or warden/sentinel for **** like Raid Rifts (or anyone actually healing a zone event) using multiple people's Soothing Streams to heal the tank w/o a "dedicated" tank healer.

    Please, please don't do this Trion. This will ruin an entire soul IN PVE for the sake of pvp.
    I don't want to reroll Mage so that I can heal in a raid ...

  5. #35
    Prophet of Telara
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    Need a DPS Cleric to teach me the ropes since healing is out of the window.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyaus View Post
    Need a DPS Cleric to teach me the ropes since healing is out of the window.
    All heal macros start with this @self


    for example.
    cast @self healing breath

    profit.
    Last edited by Undrsiege; 03-16-2012 at 10:37 PM.

  7. #37
    Ascendant Ajax1114's Avatar
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    PvP - I don't see why this change is an issue. It's not like wardens go around keeping 4 stacks of soothing stream on every single player in a warfront and will now have to think twice because *gasp* the other warden is doing it before they can. Cause that's how wardens operate in warfronts, right. They go around applying multiple stacks from multiple clerics on everyone in the warfront.

    Wrong.

    The whole point is that it's harder to spam heal allies - including healers - through focus fire by placing 4 stacks of a hot x2-3-4 on 1 target.


    PvE - I can understand the complaints and the concern. At the very least, the two abilities receiving the stack nerf will need an updated tooltip/description, or a debuff, that defines this lack of stacking clearly, similar to the function of purifier shields.

    This change does kind of neuter hybrids like sent/warden that can function as a mixture of AoE and tank heals, without worrying about what everybody else is doing. With these changes, I think we'll see raid compositions where people will have 1 51 warden (maybe) for tank healing/some AoE and not even allow hybrids like sent/warden due to its lack of stacking with the hots of other, more powerful wardens.

    Not necessarily a terrible thing to place emphasis on using 51pt builds, but it is a pretty big change to cleric healing in PvE and the change looks like something that was made with PvP in mind, 100%.
    Last edited by Ajax1114; 03-16-2012 at 10:39 PM.

  8. #38
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    Look on the bright side, more spam of healing communion...

    I qq on the inside when I'm the only dps out of 7 allies hitting the healer with 7k hp.
    Then I notice another healer not being hit on.
    Then I go respawn and ninja cap codex/thonic/vault while my team distracts guardian players with kills.
    Mad disperse to recap capture points.
    We won that game.
    (\(*3*)/)

    OT: I expect more sent/puri and trollicars now. Gonna have to wear pve gear just to not get blocked. Which will make me squishy. Why u do dis trollicars?!!!

  9. #39
    Rift Disciple rondogoon's Avatar
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    i stated this in the 1.8 patch note thread as well but...

    this change is a joke and designed around bad players QQing about warden hots but not using their brain and utilizing their cc's to take that warden down or a target with warden hots on them. every class has absolutely viable options to negate warden healing as it is on live right now.

    this change will only make unranked wf's even worse. does trion know how hard it is to organize players in a wf thats not premade? you can hardly get someone to mark the other teams healers or pass lead.

    but now it will come down to: "how much spellpower do you other clerics have. ok you go warden you have the most sp." yea right some scrub that doesn't even look at their chat window sitting at 1k spellpower is going to be overwriting your heals. goodluck at getting me to go heals ever again in a warfront if this goes live. it's too much of a headache.

    also as healers in warfronts you get favor according to your heals not your kills obviously. so.... what one warden healer gets rewarded for their time and effort in a warfront and the other wardens get nothing? or is it whoever can overwrite each others stacks faster who gets rewarded? this change is not well thought out.

    the damage output of dps in this game is so over inflated that the only way to keep people up in warfronts is from hot healing. casting a big heal is not ideal in most situations because it opens an opportunity for a smart dps to silence you from range or melee. so if only one warden per warfront is viable then you are clearly not expecting healers to solo heal warfronts are you? not with the current dps output of classes it would be near impossible. and using an icar build does almost nothing in warfronts and purifiers are laughable with their cast times and immobility. sentinels shining glory heals are both casted as well.

    have you ever been in a warfront where you where the only warden? its not ******* easy to heal.
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  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rozel View Post
    Look on the bright side, more spam of healing communion...

    I qq on the inside when I'm the only dps out of 7 allies hitting the healer with 7k hp.
    Then I notice another healer not being hit on.
    Then I go respawn and ninja cap codex/thonic/vault while my team distracts guardian players with kills.
    Mad disperse to recap capture points.
    We won that game.
    (\(*3*)/)

    OT: I expect more sent/puri and trollicars now. Gonna have to wear pve gear just to not get blocked. Which will make me squishy. Why u do dis trollicars?!!!
    LOL I was practicing that tonight since my hots will get overwritten, Had to to drink alot.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Imbaslap View Post
    nah, rogues are probably happy now cuz they dont need to have eradicate on there hotbar when they see wardens now.
    lol. the changes make purge even more so the top priority in pvp for MM.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ajax1114 View Post
    PvP - I don't see why this change is an issue. It's not like wardens go around keeping 4 stacks of soothing stream on every single player in a warfront and will now have to think twice because *gasp* the other warden is doing it before they can. Cause that's how wardens operate in warfronts, right. They go around applying multiple stacks from multiple clerics on everyone in the warfront.

    Wrong.

    The whole point is that it's harder to spam heal allies - including healers - through focus fire by placing 4 stacks of a hot x2-3-4 on 1 target.


    PvE - I can understand the complaints and the concern. At the very least, the two abilities receiving the stack nerf will need an updated tooltip/description, or a debuff, that defines this lack of stacking clearly, similar to the function of purifier shields.

    This change does kind of neuter hybrids like sent/warden that can function as a mixture of AoE and tank heals, without worrying about what everybody else is doing. With these changes, I think we'll see raid compositions where people will have 1 51 warden (maybe) for tank healing/some AoE and not even allow hybrids like sent/warden due to its lack of stacking with the hots of other, more powerful wardens.

    Not necessarily a terrible thing to place emphasis on using 51pt builds, but it is a pretty big change to cleric healing in PvE and the change looks like something that was made with PvP in mind, 100%.
    pvp- only worth keeping GCD for stacks on the ppl that matter. 2-3 targets most of the time. the main issue is how they are handing the issue of stack priority with SS and HS. i hope its based on gear some how.

    focus fire - if said focus fire dosen't include some about of purge spam and hard target switching they are doing it wrong. the lack of basic pvp strategies dosent justify nerfs.

    pve- i have MT healed HK with 51warden every single fight since i picked up HK crystal. which was in early October. some fights felt made for deep warden like darktide. 2tank healing on akylois. movement based healing on grug.

  12. #42
    General of Telara Hawkmoon0028's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Majorin View Post
    I hope the developers nerf all cleric heal souls into the ground and you guys get parity in tanking with warriors. Would be poetic justice really.
    Yeah.. and then you'll be the guy *****ing about never getting healed. ****.

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  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by rondogoon View Post
    i stated this in the 1.8 patch note thread as well but...

    this change is a joke and designed around bad players QQing about warden hots but not using their brain and utilizing their cc's to take that warden down or a target with warden hots on them. every class has absolutely viable options to negate warden healing as it is on live right now.

    this change will only make unranked wf's even worse. does trion know how hard it is to organize players in a wf thats not premade? you can hardly get someone to mark the other teams healers or pass lead.

    but now it will come down to: "how much spellpower do you other clerics have. ok you go warden you have the most sp." yea right some scrub that doesn't even look at their chat window sitting at 1k spellpower is going to be overwriting your heals. goodluck at getting me to go heals ever again in a warfront if this goes live. it's too much of a headache.

    also as healers in warfronts you get favor according to your heals not your kills obviously. so.... what one warden healer gets rewarded for their time and effort in a warfront and the other wardens get nothing? or is it whoever can overwrite each others stacks faster who gets rewarded? this change is not well thought out.

    the damage output of dps in this game is so over inflated that the only way to keep people up in warfronts is from hot healing. casting a big heal is not ideal in most situations because it opens an opportunity for a smart dps to silence you from range or melee. so if only one warden per warfront is viable then you are clearly not expecting healers to solo heal warfronts are you? not with the current dps output of classes it would be near impossible. and using an icar build does almost nothing in warfronts and purifiers are laughable with their cast times and immobility. sentinels shining glory heals are both casted as well.

    have you ever been in a warfront where you where the only warden? its not ******* easy to heal.
    Ripple>hot>hot>hot>hot>healing communion>healing communion>healing communion>cascade>Healing communion>LoS>healing flood>Healing communion>healing breath>Healing communion>Healing invocation>touch the light>healing invocation> healing breath>healing communion>ripple>hot>hot>hot>hot healing showers>healing communion>healing communion>healing invocation>cascade>Mp potion>healing flood>healing communion>healing communion>LoS>Bunny hop>healer's covenant>healing breath>they dead yet?>drink drink.Ripple>hot>hot>hot>hot>healing communion>healing communion>healing communion>cascade>Healing communion>LoS>healing flood>Healing communion>healing breath>Healing communion>Healing invocation>touch the light>healing invocation> healing breath>healing communion>ripple>hot>hot>hot>hot healing showers>healing communion>healing communion>healing invocation>cascade>Mp potion>healing flood>healing communion>healing communion>LoS>Bunny hop>healer's covenant>healing breath>they dead yet?>drink drink.


    Probably not like this. Oh, and I do hate how the low ranked rogues/warriors/mages mostly go for the first thing that catches their eye; the tank. I also don't like how big a warrior's hp can get and they still take little damage all the while there's a healer somewhere healing everybody the same op amount. Worse when only you can identify a healer while half your team is on one person that's getting the special attention of the healer(s.)

    The moment where I, as a nb/rs, can stand on top of the enemy ledge in bg, turn on guardian phase without any points in any guardian phase related skills, and just dance in front of 10 people shooting at me (yes, I literally just danced in front of them while they hit me) and let the cleric/mage pocket heal me from the back and still never drop below 50% health, is ridiculous. And that's from one ward/sent and chloro (who only used natural healing to heal me, lol)

    Oh, and warriors infested pvp again. Me no like 9k hp warriorx4 all spamming sweeping blow.

  14. #44
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    I don't understand why they couldnt just keep this huge nerf in pvp. Why did pve warden healers take a hit. I was finally able to use a 51 warden in raid along with and ward/sents, now they won't stack? That makes zero sense. Not only do pure healers bring no dps, they dont even stack anymore.

    Great change whoever did this.

    Great work.

    Really. This was totally necessary for pve healing. I can't wait till dol, healing communion, purifier sheilds, and pretty much every other heal no longer stack. This will really help out in the long run. Makes all our builds totally viable.

    Thank you so much.

  15. #45
    Telaran
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    Honestly, I have to kind of laugh at the argument about crying for heals.

    No healing at all would be better than the current state of massive overhealing.


    I also laugh at the argument that you need all that massive overhealing because you are the first to get targetted.

    Well - no crap. When your abilities are that overpowered, it is essential to target you first. You're easily the biggest threat on the field.

    There is nothing stopping groups from ultra-hunting anyone on the field. No one ultra-hunts a warrior, rogue, or non-healing mage because their threat is miniscule in comparison.

    If healing is brought down to reasonable levels in pvp, your threat is reduced, and you are no longer ultra-hunted.


    Nothing personal on an individual level, but healing had it coming for a long time.

    These are good changes.

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