Warrior Specs 1.8 - Icy Burst + Suggestions.

[Neterim]

Edit on March 23th : I redid all the parses during the night...I'm hungry but w/e. I'll fix the thread later.

Link to updated parses

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The following parses are dated of March 13th in LIVE gear. So ignore initial posts in the thread since there has been lot of change since then.

I received edit rights, so I took the relevant parses and put them on the first post. I'll be updating the parses when I can. Feel free to post your own parse and I'll add them in. Write your stats so we can compare. I might have done some mistakes too, so feel free to correct me.

Table of Content
-TO-DO List
- Stats
- 2H Parses
- DW Parses
- Other Parses
- Suggestions

TO-DO LIST
- Entire reparsing of all the spec that were using BM and Icy Burst.


Stats

Using : Tablet, 10 DPS oilstone, 4 DPS whetstone, Unique tree buff. (aka no stat modifier ability or enraged companion) I've been using way of the wind for DW parses.

Trinket : Golem Inductor.
Armors : Full relic HK plate.

PA 2H Parse : 60 STR, 60 Dex, 64 + 64 + 56 = 184 AP (Missing 1 Ranged hex) Using Kraken.
Base Stats (With consumables, without Titan's Strength) : 1178 AP, 1120 Crit, 835 STR

PA DW Parse : 60 STR, 60 Dex, 64 + 64 + 48 = 176 AP (missing 2 hexes) Using Akylios's fange and Dollin royal blade.
Base Stats (With consumables, without Titan's Strength) : 1173 AP, 1150 Crit, 838 STR.


2H Parses

Note : I ignored some parse due to the change to Weapon Master. Aka any 15 ish para build using weapon master with a 2H. I'll check them out on next PTS update.

51/15/0 with Debi (0 being BM)
(03:52) Boss Practice Dummy: 3165 Kallim-Disruptive Strike-4091 | Kalli | 3165 Pre PA change
(05:56) Boss Practice Dummy: 3165 Khagis-Deadeye Shot-5293 | Kalli | 3165

Max Hits pre update
Fierce : 3275
Frenzied : 3202
Icy : 2786 + 557 = 3343
Fiery : 3560
Disruptive : 4091

Max hits after PA update
Fierce : 3154
Frenzied : 3090
Icy : 3011 + 602 = 3613
Fiery : 3780
Disruptive : 4084

Disruptive/FierceS/Debilitating with 1 fiery burst and 3 icy burst per disruptive rotation.
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41/23/2 RB/Champ/RV (Not redoing it)
(05:00) Boss Practice Dummy: 2935 Kallim-Rift Strike-4069 | Kalli | 2935 RB crystal

Rotation : Rift, Frost, Soul, Searing builder macro in that order, Replacing any of em to refresh blood fever every 12 seconds, using a 3 point fiery burst and 2x 2 point Icy Burst rather than just one 3 point Icy burst. I planewalked when Blood fever and Soul Sickness were at full duration to fully use the 10% bonus damage from the crystal.
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40 Champ/26 BM with Storm Blade, Slayer Bearing.
(04:39) Boss Practice Dummy: 2880 Kallim-Tearing Slash-3736 | Kalli | 2880 without aggressive
Pet DPS : 256
Personal DPS : 2625
Overall DPS adding 20% from Aggressive : 2625 + 256 x 1.2 = - 2931 DPS -

Fierce : 2578
Feral : 3716
Flesh : 2156
Frenzied : 2490
Disruptive : 3290
Slashing : 2336 (non-bleed)
Backhanded (without bonus bleed) : 2416

Rotation : Same old Slashing/backhanded/fierce/disruptive weaving in tearing and feral. using frenzied and flesh rip.
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*Pre-update (no PA change)*
51 RB / 15 Para with a 2H, Avatar of the Rift, Storm Blade, RB crystal without using planewalk.
(05:29) Boss Practice Dummy: 2762 Kallim-Rift Strike-3368 | Kalli | 2762

Max Hits
Fiery : 358 X 10 = 3580
Icy : 2697 + 2697 x 0.2 = 3236
Searing : 3203 (with frost) / 1.2 = 2669
Frost : 2585

Rotation : RS/FS/SS with FB and multiple IB.

Not updating this spec because it is now much better as DW with RW.
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With PA and BM update
44 BM / 22 Champ with Storm Blade, Soldier's Bearing
(04:01) Boss Practice Dummy: 2602 Kallim-Tearing Slash-3637 | Kalli | 2602 + 60 adding Pet with aggressive.

Rotation : Keeping slashing and primal fury at all time. I start up with Slashing + Fierce spam ( with Backhanded) Using TS > PrimalF > TS > FeralS > PF > TS > FeralS...

Note : I think I'M terrible at this one, would be great to get some more parsing from you guys
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DW Parses

51 RB/ 15 Para with AotR, Storm Blade and Way of the River
(05:15) Boss Practice Dummy: 2921 Kallim-Rift Strike-3203 | Kalli | 2921

Max hits :
RW : 2489
IB : 2944 + 2944x0.2 + 3533
FB : 3730
Elemental Touch : 232
Searing : 2660
Frost : 2295
Rift : 3203

Rotation : RS/FS/SS macro always followed by RW. Apply FB or IB depending on if FB is still up.
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44 Para/ 22 Champ with Storm Blade, Soldier's Bearing, Way of the Wind
(03:34) Boss Practice Dummy: 2932 Kallim-Reaping Harvest-5192 | Kalli | 2932

Max Hits
Dual Strike + Deadly Grace : 2393 + 1052 = 3445
Rising Waterfall : 3461
Frenzied : 2045
Paired : 4015
WotW : 344
Reaping : 5192

Rotation : DS/PS with RW, Reaping Harvest with Shifting blades. Frenzied Strike.
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*I redid this one with 2 Aky's fang + whetstone since it's the best DW spec so far.
(04:34) Boss Practice Dummy: 6469 Sachmet-Reaping Harvest-5256 | Kalli | 3169

44 Para/ 20 Champ/ 2 Riftblade with Storm Blade, Soldier's Bearing, Way of the Wind
(02:41) Boss Practice Dummy: 3053 Kallim-Reaping Harvest-5115 | Kalli | 3053

Max Hits
Dual Strike + Deadly Grace : 2354 + 1035 = 3389
Rising Waterfall : 3412
Icy Burst : 2799
Frenzied : 2011
WotW : 344
Reaping : 5115

Rotation : DS/PS with RW only when PS is still up. Using 3 Icy Burst in a SLI rotation.

Doing shifting blades prevent you from doing 1 DS, 1 RW, 3 IB for 75% of 1 DS (or a PS) and one RW + 175% of a reaping harvest.
2334*0.75 + 3412*0.75 + 5115*1.75 = 1751 + 2559 + 8951 = 13261.
3389 + 3412 + 2799x3 = 15198.
So...don't do SB.

Since this is the best DW spec so far, I managed to get another akylios fang from the dev and some 5 dps whetstone and reparsed it. here is my new parse :

(04:34) Boss Practice Dummy: 6469 Sachmet-Reaping Harvest-5256 | Kalli | 3169

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51 Para/15 Riftblade with Storm Blade, Way of the Wind.
(04:09) Boss Practice Dummy: 2994 Kallim-Paired Strike-3956 | Kalli | 2994 Updated with swift blades, 2 Aky's fang and 5 dps whetstones.

(05:14) Boss Practice Dummy: 2881 Kallim-Paired Strike-3931 | Kalli | 2881 -old parse-

Max Hits
Dual Strike + Deadly Grace : 2312 + 1179 = 3491
Rising Waterfall : 3327
Flurry : 2576 X 5 = 12880
Fiery : 3345
Icy : 2672 + 534 = 3206
Way of the Wind : 330
Paired : 3931

Rotation : DS/PS with RW. Rotating Fiery and Icy burst.


Discussion about Flurry/RW

Doing one flurry (12880 with my stats) prevent you from doing one DS, one RW and 2 IB. 3491 + 3327 + 3206x2 = 13230

Doing shifting blades prevent you from doing 1 DS, 1 RW, 2 IB, 1 FB for 75% of 1 DS (or a PS) and one RW + 175% of a reaping harvest.
So let's do some math in a optimal situation with paired strike in the rotation.

13230 + 3335 + 16565 against 3931*0.75 + 3327*0.75+ 4830*1.75 = 2948 + 2495 + 8453 = 13896. Better to not use SB.

EDIT : This is before the PA change, aka Rising Waterfall is even better.
I've been hearing complaints about using Rising Waterfall while Paired Strike is up. So here is what I came up with.

Average non-crit for DS was about 1350 with a deadly grace of 1350 X 0.51 = 689, a total of 2038 damage.
So, let's say a warrior has a exaggerated 70% ish crit in a raid.

Dual Strike deals 2038 average non-crit damage with 70% chance to deal 3534
Rising Waterfall has 100% chance to deal 3142

I'm assuming we could find an average overall damage for Dual Strike and compare it to Rising Waterfall
So... Let's obtain the difference between 3534 and 2038 and add 70% of it to 2038.
2038 + (3534 - 2038)x0.7 = 3085

3142 > 3085

SO using Rising Waterfall when Paired Strike buff is up is better than a pure DS spam. Unless my math are rusty ! If you're higher than 70% though...I suppose it becomes bad. Also, the comparison gets bigger with lower point in the tree.

Best Parses

51 Champ/15 Riftblade/0 Beastmaster
(05:56) Boss Practice Dummy: 3165 Khagis-Deadeye Shot-5293 | Kalli | 3165
http://i.imgur.com/uPJ5o.png with 51/15/0 champ/rb/bm with BM crystal
http://i.imgur.com/9h0sD.png same build with raid buff
http://i.imgur.com/6Fa02.png with 51/15/0 champ/rb/bm with BM crystal Self Buff 5 min parse
http://i39.tinypic.com/16lxl1.jpg

44 Paragon/20 Champion/2 Riftblade
(04:34) Boss Practice Dummy: 6469 Sachmet-Reaping Harvest-5256 | Kalli | 3169
http://i.imgur.com/roNxu.png 44 para

51 Riftblade/15 Paragon DW version
http://i.imgur.com/FPBP1.png 51rb/15para DW
(04:18) Boss Practice Dummy: 4932 Sachmet-Reaping Harvest-5518 | Kalli | 2962 | Sachm | 1917 | Cassi | 53
http://i44.tinypic.com/a9p8ab.jpg


Other Parses

These parses were done after the BM and PA PTS update.

Shadoelynn : 2400 with 44/22 BM/champ, using Bm crystal, 1035 AP, 1065 Crit, 762 Str and 52.6 dps weapon.

Pipedreams
http://i.imgur.com/roNxu.png 44 para
http://i.imgur.com/FPBP1.png 51rb/15para DW


Paper (Storytime)
http://i.imgur.com/BLA5c.png with 40/26 CHamp/Bm
http://i.imgur.com/uPJ5o.png with 51/15/0 champ/rb/bm with BM crystal
http://i.imgur.com/9h0sD.png same build with raid buff

Blackblade
http://i.imgur.com/6Fa02.png with 51/15/0 champ/rb/bm with BM crystal Self Buff 5 min parse

Sekhmet The Fierce
44Para/20Champ/2RB - 2934
44Para/22Champ - 2816 DPS
51RB/15Para - 2732 DPS (2.8k high point)
51Champ/15RB - 2992 DPS (3k during parsing, high point 3060 DPS)

Reposting parsing results here for current iteration of updates as of 22/03/2012:

Originally Posted by Sekhmet The Fierce
Until Icy Assault is fixed, I'm going to withhold parsing any builds with RB in them. Currently, Icy Assault hits for a lot less than it should for a GCD finisher and doesn't proc Scald. Therefore, focused on some other builds for the mean time.

44 Paragon / 22 Champ
Gear: HK relic armour, Fang of Akylios + Savage Beastcarver, Golem Inductor and HK Paragon crystal. Self-buffed with Mighty Powersurge vial and cake + 19k PAs on PTS = 1153 AP and 1088 crit. Average latency to PTS is 156ms (with very occasional spikes). Only used SB when Paired Strikes was available to be worked in, as that was when it was able to be a sure DPS gain (all other times are heavily dependent on the crits you get).
Result: 2951 DPS

51 Champion / 13 Paragon / 2 Beastmaster
Gear: Same as before, except with the Kraken's Spine and HK BM crystal. Same pots/cakes/PAs and self-buffed = 1120 AP and 1062 crit. Used Disruptive Strike after applying Tearing Slash to go as quick to a Punishing Blow as possible. 2 PB's per TS. Avoided the use of Titan's Strike due to its massive AoE range skewing ST parsing.
Result: 2601 DPS

51Champ / 15 Beastmaster / 0 Riftblade
Gear: Same as with previous build. Same pots/cakes/PAs and self-buffed = 1125 AP and 1062 crit. After Tearing Slash, I used Slashing Strike and then Fierce strike. Didn't bother with Backhanded Blow as it didn't seem to be a sure DPS gain. Otherwise, same principle with the rotation. Disruptive Strike applied before Tearing Slash this time so to better manage the DoT durations.
Result: 2612 DPS

Some parses weren't as long due to people coming in and starting to use the same dummy as I, therefore I had to cut short so not to skew the parses from other people's debuffs. Can't be bothered with learning the deep BM rotations, so someone else will have to provide data for that.

Suggestions

- Change Debilitating to increase on-GCD Finisher damage by X numbers/percent/AP contribution and make it STACKABLE to like 3-5. This way our ST dps as champion will have to be built, making it weaker than Paragon or RB in ST burst damage but equal in long encounter. OR maybe add a passive effect with point spent in the champion tree that makes finisher apply that debuff, giving it a synergy with Weapon Master and Destroyer's Bearing (More finishers = more stacks).

- Change Swift Blades. No matter how much math I try to do with that ability, it's never worth it. Maybe gives us an off-gcd attack that refresh/apply SLI ? EDIT : Swift Blades is good from my math. Just try it. I got 4800 damage from it. just need to check CD to fit in the para rotation.

- Give Weapon Master a 100% chance to give a bonus attack point on follow-up. Check!

[Blackblade]

Hmm.... your maximum hit numbers are very high

• Disruptive Strike - 4451
• Reaping Harvest - 6216

Is there a debuff on the dummy? I heard that some of the dummy's in Meridian are level 15 and take more damage (Guardian here..not sure). Your max hits are approximately 700 - 1,000 more than mine.

[KK]

Hmm.... your maximum hit numbers are very high

• Disruptive Strike - 4451
• Reaping Harvest - 6216

Is there a debuff on the dummy? I heard that some of the dummy's in Meridian are level 15 and take more damage (Guardian here..not sure). Your max hits are approximately 700 - 1,000 more than mine.

He was using T3 gear given to him for testing in ID, hence the higher then normal #s.

[jerwel]

The one thing I will add to the thread atm is that rw supposedly hits for less than dual strike plus its additives atm. So you may want to reparse without rw and see where you land (I know paired gives forced crits but in your gear plus raid buffs you should crit roughly 2/3 of your dual strikes in that time anyways).

ps. Dont nerf champ man (not to mention your purposed changes would destroy the soul for pvp....). I HATE bm with a bleeding passion and do not want that to be our only viable st 2h dps spec. Further I feel champs aoe makes up for its lack of range and mobility options, whereas the para specs get both those in trade for bad aoe. RB should be a cross between the two imo with ok range and ok aoe, and bm of course brings its buffs (or buff I should say). Seems like a fair deal and something to consider in the debate over 2h and dual wield if the two do near equal dps (and its pretty close on your parses, though I think dual wield will be ahead if you drop rws due to dual strike hitting harder atm).

[Neterim]

- Like Korean Killer mentioned, I was using gear that isn't on live server. that's why I posted my base stats and my weapon dps.

- I was parsing alone, not using any other classes's debuffs.

- I believe in raid you might be right - DS will always be better than RW. I'll be honest, I dunno, on the fly, how to calculate it.

About your BM's issue being maybe the best ST 2H spec if they nerf burst aka 51/15 champ rb, that is exactly why I proposed the stacking debuff. I'm purely talking PvE here though. I also totally agree with you that champion should have equal ST dps to DW due to lack of mobility and ranged attack, with Paragon being -ok- at aoe and range with huge mobility and equal ST dps. On second thought, I would keep champ/rb where it is right now with the concerns you explained.

[Kwerd]

why are you parsing with t3 gear? It would be great to see parses in HK gear for comparison to live parses.

[Hunt55511]

why are you parsing with t3 gear? It would be great to see parses in HK gear for comparison to live parses.

This. People posting parses on dummies using T3 gear is fairly pointless as we have no real way to easily compare it to DPS on Live. Saying "Oh, BM does 3k DPS in T3 gear" would be like saying you know where you'll be when you finish ID, but until then...

[jerwel]

This. People posting parses on dummies using T3 gear is fairly pointless as we have no real way to easily compare it to DPS on Live. Saying "Oh, BM does 3k DPS in T3 gear" would be like saying you know where you'll be when you finish ID, but until then...

I agree that parsing in t-2 gear is the way to go, as it will allow us to have an easy benchmark that others can measure on, and it allows us to compare to other classes. I also think that full raid buffs is probably the only way to properly parse as we are not really sure how the different specs will scale in raids (take the para spec for example. Without raid buffs, the op is probably right in that using rw after paired is the best dps, but with raid buffs spaming dual strike is most likely better).

[DeadMaus]

Oilstone and whetstones and tablet and 35/35 pot, max 2 hander/polearm pa, minimal axe dps at this point

51 ch/15 rb- 3050-3100 ish this was without the rb crystal because im a newb
40 ch, 26 bm, 0 rb- 3070-3100
44 para/20 ch/2 rb (i have considerably little one hander pa [about an oilstones worth])- 2888


my gear is all relic armor, my current dex str are tuned for live raid soft cap, i have spine dont have inductor [outrageous on pts], was only using only buffs that would not get overwritten in raids, so no focus of body, or the bm auras [outside of enraged]. I only used the pot and stones to see how it would trend towards scaling in a raid.

Without the raid consumables, champ was sitting pretty at 2870 (again without rb crystal), bm was 2850-2900 (couldnt get it to steady out), Para was 2700. My parses went for a while basically till a plateau for a minute or more.

[DeadMaus]

ran out of edit time, max minus one hex (zero points in it)

[Neterim]

Point was just to compare warrior specs with warriors specs here, sorry.

[Neterim]

Also...I posted the stats I had. you can compare at least with those stats value!

[Kwerd]

Point was just to compare warrior specs with warriors specs here, sorry.

Don't get me wrong, I really appreciate ppl for posting their parses especially when they list detailed stats/build/rotations like yours. We would just prefer it if it was done in T2 Raid here for comparison purposes.

[DeadMaus]

I think ur numbers are off cause u should b doin morr

[Neterim]

I'm redoing my parses with live top gear atm. Should be ready in several hours. I'll redo BM, 51 Champ, 44 Para, 51 RB and maybe 51 Para.