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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: Riftstalker / Nightblade PVP Build - Broken in PVP

  1. #181
    General of Telara Eclipze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qia View Post
    What conclusions?

    There would be 0 use from RB, 0. Nothing alse. Not even 0,00000000001%. Only 0%!

    Make what 15%?

    You are aware that Rogue absorbs only 15% with RB already on PTS?
    You are aware that RB deals 20-60% of absorbed damage back to the player?

    1000 HIt, 150 absorbed, 30-90 damage done to the player. You find that too high?
    lol, man...?

    Mages were crying when Assassins wouldn't kill themself on Warlock Armor , which procced from every poison which hit the mage for around 50 damage. So you were dying by attacking. That was ok... obviously?
    So why should current RB be broken?
    Yup, i see that. And it's getting closer. Now all they need to do is to require the rogue be in Guardian phase to trigger the affects of Rift Guard and Phantom Blow. Unless, of course you believe those two abilities aren't for tanking....
    Eclipze @ Retired Raider
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  2. #182
    Ascendant Taemek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eclipze View Post
    That's because they don't understand that no one else has a 2 buff purge with no cd.

    When you take into account the ridiculous amount of damage reduction, cooldowns, and damage output, I seriously wonder why any rogue is defending this build.
    Yeah because Chloro/Doms are so underpowered, right?

  3. #183
    General of Telara Eclipze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taemek View Post
    Yeah because Chloro/Doms are so underpowered, right?
    Please tell me you aren't implying a low damage self-healing utility spec is overpowered......
    Eclipze @ Retired Raider
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  4. #184
    Ascendant Taemek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eclipze View Post
    Please tell me you aren't implying a low damage self-healing utility spec is overpowered......
    Am I?

    If I was, would you not agree?

  5. #185
    General of Telara Eclipze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taemek View Post
    Am I?

    If I was, would you not agree?
    The only thing that it's decent at is 1v1. Good thing PVP isn't a team game.......
    Eclipze @ Retired Raider
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    PVP <Terrible Idea>

  6. #186
    Ascendant Taemek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eclipze View Post
    The only thing that it's decent at is 1v1. Good thing PVP isn't a team game.......
    Good thing this entire thread is based off 1v1 then, isn't it.

  7. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by overbyte View Post
    If you don't see how game-breaking that is, I'm afraid you're really not qualified enough to be taken seriously by anyone. 15% damage is 15% damage. That's no different than giving NB/RS rogues an extra, what, 300-400 valor. That's significant.

    60% of 15% is 9%. If player 'A' is a warrior and player 'b' is a NB/RS rogue and both do equal dps, the rogue will take 15% less damage AND reflect back 9% of incoming damage.

    Without nerfs and changes, rogues will have an effective damage advantage of 24%.

    24%

    And you don't think that's an issue.
    rogues reflecting damage back is like shroud of agony, warlock armour, charged shield, avatar of the rift and burning blood (i'm sure theres a few more)

    you think rogues get a 24% damage increase because of something that reflects damage back? take a look at other classes first
    Last edited by Arrinx; 10-29-2011 at 07:17 AM.

  8. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by overbyte View Post
    Devs,

    This is the build (variants exist): http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0M...ogRss.VcdcuR0o

    44 points in Nightblade, 22 points in Riftstalker.

    Problem:

    This build exploits the fact that most of the useful tanking abilities in the Riftstalker tree are:
    1) Available for a modest investment in the RS tree
    2) Can be used when the rogue is using his dps aura instead of his tanking aura

    This results in creating a PVP build that is grossly imbalanced (there's a video in the PVP forums of a Rank 2 RS/NB nearly defeating a Rank 8 warrior in a duel - less than 5% health left on the warrior).

    A rogue with this build has:
    6 seconds of 100% damage reduction
    8 seconds of 80% damage reduction
    4 seconds of 50% damage reduction
    10 seconds of 30% damage reduction
    Indefinite 15% damage REFLECTION
    Indefinite 36% damage reduction
    Indefinite 15% fire/death damage reduction
    4 second self-heal for 50% hp


    This build has 51% damage mitigation on top of valor with 100% uptime. When using cooldowns, this build has 28 seconds of 65-100% damage reduction, on top of valor. This can be repeated every 2 minutes, worst case.

    This is does not include the self-heal this build has.

    Against a mage (pyromancer, warlock, necromancer), this build has a passive 66% damage reduction, on top of valor, basically giving this build upwards of 80-90% passive damage mitigation.

    As a result of this, most rogues don't even bother with using the guardian phase and stick to using their DPS aura (stalker phase).

    To give an analogy, this would be similar to increasing the duration of Neddra's Essence (85% damage reduction for 7 seconds) by over 4x AND reducing the cooldown by 50%.


    Here's what this build grants in terms of defensive abilities:
    - Blackout - 6 seconds of 100% damage immunity with no damage output reduction, 2 minute cooldown
    - Twillight Transcendence - 50% damage reduction + 50% heal over 4 seconds, 2 minute cooldown
    - Twilight Shelter - 80% damage reduction, 40% damage output reduction, lasts 8 seconds, 2 minute cooldown
    - Fire/Death Attunement - 15% death/fire damage reduction, passive
    - Guardian Phase, 30% damage reduction, +50% armor,+50 resist, +30% endurance, no cooldown
    - Exceptional Resilience, passive 6% damage reduction
    - Rift Guard - 15% damage absorption shield up to 50%hp, lasts 30 seconds, no cooldown
    - Rift Barrier - 15% damage REFLECTION shield up to 50%hp, lasts 15 seconds, 13 second cooldown (effective)
    - Planar Refuge - 30% damage reduction, lasts 10 seconds, 2 minute cooldown


    Developers, I submit to you this is a game-breaking PVP build that needs to be brought into line post-haste.


    I'd recommend:
    - changing Blackout to reduce incoming AND outgoing damage by 100%, and increasing run speed by 30% and making the rogue immune to all CC. This should be a defensive ability. It's currently used as an offensive one.
    - remove the damage reduction portion of Fire and Death attunement. This unfairly punishes classes that use fire and death damage (who dont have any similar abilities or talents).
    - change Rift Barrier, Rift Guard and Planar Refuge to require Guardian Phase to be used. These are tanking abilities and should be restricted to tanking use. They are currently used heavily in DPS modes and are breaking PVP.
    - Decrease the 'damage caused' portion of Guardian Phase to 30%, increase the threat to 230% and also give the aura a stacking 0.7% damage buff to all party and raid members to compensate for the DPS loss

    These changes would still allow the build to maintain its tremendous damage reduction abilities but at the cost of damage output without impacting the tanking abilities in the tree.

    Edit: The most recent proposed changes on the PTS exacerbate the problem.
    The fix for this is really simple, just do to rogues what they did to warriors in 1.4 and completely obliterate a good portion of their dmg/synergy with a single hotfix when all they had to do is tone down one soul!
    Quote Originally Posted by Sebb View Post
    In before... "This thread (aka forum) is being locked because it's filled with hypocrisy, idiocy, made up numbers and lack of any sort of constructive posts"

  9. #189
    Prophet of Telara -Shiva-'s Avatar
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    Okay I just read the OP, and nothing else, so if this has been brought up it can be ignored.

    Blackout has never been 6 seconds of damage immunity. Blackout gives you 100% dodge for 6 seconds. Which means if you use an attack that cannot be blocked, dodged, or parried it hits the NB. Also, if you stack enough hit it blows through Blackout like it isn't even there.

    I'm so sick of reading about how Blackout makes you totally immune to all damage for 6 seconds, because it just isn't true.

  10. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Shiva- View Post
    Okay I just read the OP, and nothing else, so if this has been brought up it can be ignored.

    Blackout has never been 6 seconds of damage immunity. Blackout gives you 100% dodge for 6 seconds. Which means if you use an attack that cannot be blocked, dodged, or parried it hits the NB. Also, if you stack enough hit it blows through Blackout like it isn't even there.

    I'm so sick of reading about how Blackout makes you totally immune to all damage for 6 seconds, because it just isn't true.
    And because everyone plays with -dunno how much hit you need to lower it by 100%, or focus in PvP- you want to tell us what exactly? THat its only 96% of immunity?

    Try killing anything with only attacks that cannot miss. Though your target probably dies of old age first .
    Last edited by Tulia; 10-29-2011 at 08:30 AM.

  11. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Shiva- View Post
    Okay I just read the OP, and nothing else, so if this has been brought up it can be ignored.

    Blackout has never been 6 seconds of damage immunity. Blackout gives you 100% dodge for 6 seconds. Which means if you use an attack that cannot be blocked, dodged, or parried it hits the NB. Also, if you stack enough hit it blows through Blackout like it isn't even there.

    I'm so sick of reading about how Blackout makes you totally immune to all damage for 6 seconds, because it just isn't true.
    Don't know about you but I'm sick of reading completely ignorant post some people make regarding counters to things like "just purge it" when MM is the only soul that can actually do any form of useful purging or
    Blackout has never been 6 seconds of damage immunity. Blackout gives you 100% dodge for 6 seconds. Which means if you use an attack that cannot be blocked, dodged, or parried it hits the NB. Also, if you stack enough hit it blows through Blackout like it isn't even there.
    Do you even realize how foolish you make yourself look with this?
    Quote Originally Posted by Sebb View Post
    In before... "This thread (aka forum) is being locked because it's filled with hypocrisy, idiocy, made up numbers and lack of any sort of constructive posts"

  12. #192
    RIFT Guide Writer Zyzyx's Avatar
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    Still no clue why this thread is still going on. Why is this build getting nerfed?

    Mages/clerics/warriors can all stomp it 100% of the time it's pretty bad

    EDIT: I mean I'm peeved that it is getting nerfed when it shouldn't be. On the other hand it doesn't effect me at all and might even make my life easier not having to wait 5 seconds to kill these dudes when blackout fades.

    EDIT2: I guess what I'm trying to say devs is that this build really isn't a problem and probably shouldn't be changed. Not worth my effort though.
    Last edited by Zyzyx; 10-29-2011 at 08:49 AM.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daglar View Post
    When time allows I'll be looking at the issue with the class guys.

  13. #193
    Ascendant Kronos v's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aistaraina View Post
    ...Not only that but you forget about the sword and board pvp spec that some warriors roll around in with all that plate armor statcking to their physical damage mitagation.
    and all that plate armor means what, exactly, to a NB/RS's elemental damage?

    not a damn thing.

  14. #194
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    i don't think you realise that people spec into rift stalker for survivability, just wait till 1.6 hits when hardly anyone will be speced into rs but will be full 51 nb doing much more damage then they are now
    Last edited by Arrinx; 10-29-2011 at 09:02 AM.

  15. #195
    Plane Touched krossfade's Avatar
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    Is that rogue tears i smell?

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