Closed Thread
Page 4 of 18 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 14 ... LastLast
Results 46 to 60 of 270
Like Tree124Likes

  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: Focus Discussion - Additional Proposed Changes to Rogues

  1. #46
    RIFT Guide Writer Zyzyx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    5,040

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cdale View Post
    This is BRILLIANT BRILLIANT BRILLIANT for RS tanks if I understand it correctly as a RS tank can generate CP's before the pull to be able to to initiate a finisher/damage shield on pull.

    This fixes about 40% of Riftstalker playstyle issues, and most of the rest of it is addressed by the large pack threat changes already in.

    The only thing remaining would be high end mitigation (which doesn't impact the majority of folks tanking with riftstalker in T1/2 5 mans, etc).

    NICE!
    I don't think this change allows them to get cp's before a pull.

    It is an aoe cp generator now instead of an aoe non target ability that it used to be. It's obsolete with the new blink aoe taunts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daglar View Post
    When time allows I'll be looking at the issue with the class guys.

  2. #47
    General of Telara
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    915

    Default

    Should bring other soul's AoE in-line w/ Sab's rather than gimping Shrapnel. We are at a pretty comfortable spot in terms of AoE.

  3. #48
    Prophet of Telara
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    1,038

    Default

    Thanks Elrar/Trion for finally starting a discussion to try and make this right. I think it should have been started much sooner in the patch cycle, but late is much better than never, so for that we thank you. You are definitely one of the Trion employees that give it a good name, but seriously...why do Rogues hear more about their class from the CM than the Rogue dev?

    Ok, moving on...here is my take on each of these topics (and one or two extra at the bottom):

    Saboteur: You should probably just leave this one alone.

    Nightblade: These changes look good, but I have one suggestion here. There is no AoE finisher in this tree, so it makes sense to either add one (Fiery Chains perhaps?), or make the ST damage higher than souls that do offer more AoE damage.

    Assassin: Looks good, but without numbers it is hard to say. Long and short, there is NO AoE here. The ST should surpass other souls that offer AoE.

    Bladedancer: Looks good on the damage front, but one observation. In PvP, everyone is using +Hit to negate the dodge bonuses. I was under the impression that this soul was an "in your face fighter"...it isn't going to be as desired in it's current state.

    Marksman: For PvE, I'm honestly flabbergasted that any more buffs are being considered for this tree. I'm still not sure how I feel about not having any "burst" CD's for PvP though...maybe it's fine as is though with the heal debuff and all. One final note...we still lose a metric TON of damage for moving in this "mobile" build. Consider making half of the Master Archer bonus permanent, and the other half while standing still to help address this issue.

    Ranger: Really? I'm sorry, but this soul is HURTING BAD. In my testing, I can't find any reason to choose it as a main soul over MM already...these changes aren't enough to counter that. What is the difference between MM and Ranger supposed to be anyway? Looks to me like MM is about to become the king of AoE AND ST for archers, and Ranger is going to be the king of sexual relations with animals. All joking aside, seriously...look at this soul and make the last half of it not suck so bad. Frankly, I'd say make MM the better choice for ST, and then beef the heck out of the Ranger's AoE, but thats just me. Just do something because it is bad bad bad bad.../rant end

    Rifstalker: This is a big issue for me since I was a main tank for my guild for quite a while, but I understand this soul will be further addressed in and before 1.6, so I'll put a cork in it.

    No, these weren't on your list, but still...

    Bard: Doesn't need a lot, but I still feel a small tweak or two would be nice. Spamming motifs is boring...maybe a finisher or something that refreshes them once they are up, with say a 20s CD. It has no combat res, doesn't heal any more than other support classes, and can't single target heal. It just seems to be lacking some small thing still...maybe add some offensive motifs that affect enemies within the range, but limit how many motifs can be active at once so you have to pick/choose the ones you want?

    Infiltrator: A few things need reworked in our PvP soul, sorry. This has been an issue for quite a while. The first 5 points are practically useless. Most of the 20-point abilities are horrible. Anathema shouldn't be cleansable if it is on a 30s timer...it's so easy to cleanse that this alone just makes it worthless. Heck, we have access to heal debuffs easy enough in other trees now...make it something else if you want, but right now it is useless against anyone who pays attention.
    Last edited by Calo; 09-23-2011 at 06:31 PM.

  4. #49
    Soulwalker
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    7

    Default

    Some very nice changes.

    I also agree with people saying that it would be nice if NB had a aoe finisher to go with cp builders that do aoe damage. Chainging fiery chains to finisher has been suggested. I think also living flame could work as a finisher with proper adjustments to cd, duration and damage and would be more useful in that form. just an idea, dont shoot me

  5. #50
    Shield of Telara Hellebron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    770

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyzyx View Post
    I don't think this change allows them to get cp's before a pull.

    It is an aoe cp generator now instead of an aoe non target ability that it used to be. It's obsolete with the new blink aoe taunts.
    Actually I believe this is a clever workaround to keep Rift Guard and Guarded Steel from being abused in PvP.

    If Disturbance remains the same, in that it had no range requirement, all you will need now is an enemy targeted, and you can Disturbance in place to build combo points and get Guard up.

    In PvP, you won't easily be able to do this, since if you are in range of other players, you are already at risk of being attacked anyways.

    If it now has a range or something, disregard this post, and yes, it will be a stupid change then.

  6. #51
    Shield of Telara
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    751

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Elrar View Post
    Hey everyone,
    Saboteur
    With the updates to all souls in 1.5, Rogues should no longer feel dependent on Saboteur for AOE damage. Changes to High Explosives and Residual Shrapnel have been discussed previously but we feel now is the time to make them in tandem with the following buffs to other souls. Saboteurs should now achieve competitive single target and AOE damage without using the same rotation for both.
    • High Explosive: Lowered the critical strike damage bonus
    • Residual Shrapnel: Lowered the benefit to Shrapnel Charge. The bonus to Blast Charge has not been changed
    • I would prefer is Sabo's damage remained the same to keep it competitive. Concerning Sabdancer deadly dance needs to be moved up in rank, or made to where it will only work on Blade dancer skills, or have it scale based upon how many points you put in Bladedancer.


    Nightblade
    • Nightstalker: Now gives bonuses for targets above 30% health (These will not be the same bonus as targets below 30% health)
    • Weapon Flare: Now requires a target selected, awards a combo point
    • Fiery Chains: Increased the number of targets hit, now has a chance to award a combo point for each target hit
    Good changes.... on test nightblade sucks compared to the other souls dps wise.

    Assassin
    • Impale: Damage slightly increased, should now be more comfortable in a Final Blow/Impale rotation
    • Physical Trauma: Increased the bonus to Final Blow
    Dont know until I try it out, but what bothered me on test concerning assassin is that you guys lowered Impales duration, which meant I had to use it more often. Before I could get off close to 4 rotations of Final Blows before Impale ran out. Now I can only get around 2 rotations.

    Its not big, but please consider upping the duration of Impale.


    Bladedancer
    • Double Coup: Increased the effectiveness
    • Blade and Soul Parity: Now grants critical strike bonus damage
    • Twin Strike: Now hits additional targets
    • Compound Attack: Now hits additional targets

    Just like Nightblade, this soul needed to be brought up to parity with Marksman and Sabo.
    Marksman
    • Silver Tip Munitions: Is no longer considered a curse, now stacks to 20
    • Fan Out, Crossfire, Lightning Fury: Now hits additional targets
    • Collateral Damage: Now increases all AOE damage for Ranged Weapons, no longer applies its old bonus
    More AOE cant go wrong there. For a suggestion I would suggest making Marksman more bursty for those that pvp, and Ranger can be the steady dps soul.

    Ranger
    • Master Huntsman: Blood Raptor now receives more of a bonus from Master Huntsman
    • Rain of Arrows: Cooldown reduced to 6 seconds
    Like it, pet needs to do some good damage in this build.

    Riftstalker
    • Rift Disturbance: Now requires a target, now awards a combo point
    Awesome change... awesome change.. cant tell you how many times I wish this skill would award a combo point. I can see some issue with targeting though or not being able to fire off the skill when needed because you dont have a target or the target thats targeted is out of range.

    Suggestion to fix this would be to have the skill fire off a short duration buff that doubles the combo points you get from your next attack.

  7. #52
    Plane Walker Vera's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    423

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hellebron View Post
    You are assuming there will be a range requirement on Disturbance.

    It's a great change if there is not a range required, and all you need is a target.
    You got me there. I am making that assumption. Honestly though? I'd rather them just leave it alone. I don't... trust them with my abilities...

  8. #53
    Plane Walker Vera's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    423

    Default

    No, I've thought about it, and I don't like that change to Rift Disturbance. Combo point or not, requiring a target removes freedom of choosing where to place it.

    No... I just don't like it. Sorry, maybe I'm just stuck in my ways, but no thanks.

  9. #54
    Ascendant Liang Nuren's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    1,704

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Elrar View Post
    Nightblade
    • Nightstalker: Now gives bonuses for targets above 30% health (These will not be the same bonus as targets below 30% health)
    • Weapon Flare: Now requires a target selected, awards a combo point
    • Fiery Chains: Increased the number of targets hit, now has a chance to award a combo point for each target hit
    Huh, interesting. I admit I'm unsure if that's enough of a boost for it to be competitive with Assassin.

    Assassin
    • Impale: Damage slightly increased, should now be more comfortable in a Final Blow/Impale rotation
    • Physical Trauma: Increased the bonus to Final Blow
    I'm a bit annoyed that you're further boosting Assassin when virtually the entire Rogue population already rolls as Assassin for the "risk free", near 100% damage avoidance, no penalty stealth+slip away. We are never going to see variety in Rogue PVP until you provide some real survivability, DPS, and CC to the other souls (like Blade Dancer).

    Bladedancer
    • Double Coup: Increased the effectiveness
    • Blade and Soul Parity: Now grants critical strike bonus damage
    • Twin Strike: Now hits additional targets
    • Compound Attack: Now hits additional targets
    These are great, but don't fix the core of the problem:
    - In PVE, you are not the tank and you aren't going to be dodging/parrying to get the extra damage/CP generation.
    - In PVP, everyone runs around with +hit weapons anyway - good luck dodging/parrying anything.
    - I still don't see a ranged snare.

    Marksman
    • Silver Tip Munitions: Is no longer considered a curse, now stacks to 20
    • Fan Out, Crossfire, Lightning Fury: Now hits additional targets
    • Collateral Damage: Now increases all AOE damage for Ranged Weapons, no longer applies its old bonus
    Can you confirm that Silver Tip Munitions are not cleansable by any class? Making them no longer a curse doesn't mean they aren't a poison or disease and still broken in exactly the same way. Also, are they removed by Deny, Sterilize, and Spellbreaker? I strongly recommend making Silver Tip Munitions a stacking buff on the Rogue (4x 5% buffs).

    Also, where in the hell is Hit and Run? Why did you not fix the schizophrenia of having the mobile/kiting class take a huge DPS nose dive when moving?

    Bard
    • Nothing
    Bard is pretty much nothing but a really crappy chloro with some neat high maintenance off buffs. It'd be swell if you boosted Bard to be a straight up healing soul somewhere between Inquisicar and Archon. (Yes, this is personal preference speaking).

    -Liang

  10. #55
    Telaran Suyheuti's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    94

    Default

    As you see, Blade and Soul Parity is useless now. Damage bonus should be minimum %30, otherwise I prefer to use Magnify Pain. (49BD,17Sin) No-one wants to use BaSP for 20secs in every 2 mins. Magnify Pain is unlimited buff. Beats it in every condition. And Double Coup change will be great. And I have some requests;
    * Change "Blade and Fury", "Improved False Blade" please. Really crap now. And Decrease "Dancing Steel"s cooldown to 1 min.
    For NB;
    * Change "Lingering Flame"; Decrease required points for "Improved Twilight Force" and "Melted Skin". Because 2nd points for them are totally waste.
    Thanks...
    Seleucia - 60 Rogue (Main)
    Kibyra - 60 Warrior
    Coexist (Zaviel EU)
    FT 4/4 - EE 5/5 - GA 2/4

  11. #56
    Ascendant Liang Nuren's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    1,704

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Suyheuti View Post
    As you see, Blade and Soul Parity is useless now. Damage bonus should be minimum %30, otherwise I prefer to use Magnify Pain. (49BD,17Sin) No-one wants to use BaSP for 20secs in every 2 mins. Magnify Pain is unlimited buff. Beats it in every condition. And Double Coup change will be great. And I have some requests;
    * Change "Blade and Fury", "Improved False Blade" please. Really crap now. And Decrease "Dancing Steel"s cooldown to 1 min.
    For NB;
    * Change "Lingering Flame"; Decrease required points for "Improved Twilight Force" and "Melted Skin". Because 2nd points for them are totally waste.
    Thanks...
    Yeah I was thinking about that. Moving Magnify Pain over to Blade Dancer and pushing Improved False Blades into False Blades would be a pretty good move IMO. (See: Liang hates Assassins posts for more details).

    -Liang

  12. #57
    Ascendant Ianto Jones's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    6,018

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hellebron View Post
    Actually I believe this is a clever workaround to keep Rift Guard and Guarded Steel from being abused in PvP.

    If Disturbance remains the same, in that it had no range requirement, all you will need now is an enemy targeted, and you can Disturbance in place to build combo points and get Guard up.

    In PvP, you won't easily be able to do this, since if you are in range of other players, you are already at risk of being attacked anyways.

    If it now has a range or something, disregard this post, and yes, it will be a stupid change then.
    As I understand it, it will work sort of like Weapon Flare, except granting a CP and being 360 degrees. You have to have a target and be in melee range of that target to use the skill, I believe.

  13. #58
    Soulwalker
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    10

    Default

    Changes to residual shrapnel were proposed previously and the community already explained how we felt about it. I think I am speaking on behalf of many rogues who like saboteur when I say, we do not need a shrapnel charge nerf. So yet again Trion, please, please, please do not nerf shrapnel charge. A slight buff to trick shot perhaps will improve mm/rng aoe if the goal is to balance our souls.

  14.   Click here to go to the next Rift Team post in this thread.   #59
    Community Manager Elrar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    2,584

    Default

    Hey guys,

    Sounding like a broken record, but really, thanks for the feedback

    Just a reminder, please avoid making requests unrelated to whats being discussed here. This thread is not about additional mechanic changes or your wish-list/desired functionality.

    Your responses should be in reference to these changes listed above. Additionally, if you haven't tested Rogues as they are on PTS, your feedback in RE: As they are on live, is of little use. There have been extensive changes to each soul - so hop on to PTS and play for a while before jumping to conclusions and gain a better frame of reference.

    There are plenty of other threads for your wish-lists, please share your thoughts there so we can keep the discussion here highly focused.

    Cheers,

  15. #60
    Ascendant charliekelly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    1,845

    Default

    as far as NB goes, why even make weapon flare give combo points if it has no aoe finisher? this is a confusing change. the whole idea of weapon flare giving combo points, was to work in conjunction with a newly implemented aoe finisher. it will never compete with sab til it does.
    Last edited by Jakranka; 09-23-2011 at 07:15 PM.

Closed Thread
Page 4 of 18 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 14 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts