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Thread: Hardcore PvE Point of View

  1. #121
    Champion of Telara Elth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Falsedemise View Post
    I love how everyone automatically assumes Hammerknell. PVP gear helps for all levels of raiding. Unlike PVP, we don't go straight into the hardest content when we start out.
    Any raid content prior to Hammerknell doesn't need to be taken into consideration because it is faceroll.
    Hammerknell is currently the only content I have done (in my trash gear apparently) that I would consider difficult since experts were nerfed.

  2. #122
    Telaran zahmi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ElusiveFox View Post
    Saying that your more dedicated because you got r8 gear is complete and total bs - i have afk'd my way to r8 I refuse to pvp but unfortunately it is necesary for gear. It wasn't even a grind i was tabbed out or talking to guildies a good portion of the time - just making sure i moved enough to pass the afk check.
    Some would say its exploit using. Ever thought about that you destroy the fun of a lot of players?
    Or is raiding all you care and people who dont raid deserve no fun?
    What do you say when you make raid rifts and other players start to pull? Yeah lets share the fun?

    Some are so selfish its incredible, but what is really strange it seems they are also proud about it

  3. #123
    Ascendant Eughe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isila View Post
    To be fair, there's a difference between progression raiding and farm raiding.
    True.

    Progression raiding can spend a month or more working on the same boss or couple of bosses, and is very challenging when you're getting your raid to coordinate, work out an execute a strat, and perform to their utmost to make up for all the mistakes people keep making. This is the long, hard part of PvE.
    Im sure if you could spam raid instances as much as you could spam pvp it would simply take a couple days/hours unless its gearing thats the problem as opposed to strat.

    In any event, its not long, because actual hours spent doing it varies on dedication and aptitude. If you can follow YT accurately, you should be able to get it on the few times. The biggest thing, is cooldown. Which curbs time spent in the instances, unless you continue/afk until you get it. But actual man hours, the time you pvp, is arguably equal, in effort, and result, as the time you raid. Especially since progression, or fast progression anyway, on both, depends on the competency of your group (more so in pvp rather than pve) as well as how long you spend doing said raid/pvp instance.

    But this is where the similarties stop and the effort between the two shifts.

    Then there's farm raiding. This is the piss-easy loot farming that happens once you know how to beat a boss, and have gotten geared up a bit more from previous kills. We took a new recruit through GSB and RoS last week, and in one night he picked up something like 5 drops? Including all three weapon slots. Considering that we can easily 18-man those raids, he basically got carried to 5 pieces of T3 loot in one night as, outside of wiping the raid with something like Oracle's Necrotic Energy, he could literally be AFK and still get it.
    Only premades, can farm certain pvp instances. However, the general populi can not. So for the general raiding guild, after they get it together, will spend more man hours, progressing, only fighting RNG. While the general pvp is fighting, class disparities, different gear levels on both teams, their own gear limitations, assuming they have any, and group quality.

    And all that only determines whether they get a lot of or a little rewards from that pvp instance (favor/prestige) not whether they win or lose.

    If you have a very long streak of losing, or you afk, you will be progressing much slower, than a person who afk'd and/or lucked himself into a decent group that maximizes their reward according to his time constraint (If you can only play 3 matches a day, then you want those matches to last long to maximize rewards. If you have play all day, then rushes would help you better).

    Facing difficult opponents or being a low rank, is just like a new guild raid progression. The only advantage the pvper has, is that he can luck himself into a string of wins, just like, a new person can luck himself into an advanced raid guild who can steamroll him into victory.

    Where as a new raiding guild, assuming gear is not a problem, will be working on group coordination, which is easier to work on, when you know your team mates. An advantage for PvE raids.
    A new pvper, can only work on being the best individual he can be. And hope he meets a group of individuals who are the best individuals they can be, and hope, their opponents, are not the best individuals they can be....plus have better gear and proper team set up.

    People doing progression raiding are going to pick up loot much slower and with much more effort than people grinding prestige/favor. People going through farm raiding are going to get it much faster and easier.
    Its not that simple. The general pvper must depend on strangers, to achieve big rewards. So their progression will be based on their teams individual efforts, and not the entire groups effort. Something even a new raiding guild will have the advantage in.

    Its simply not fair to compare an afker to a pvper because:

    1) Hes not pvping.
    2) He is not facing the same problems a real pvper faces
    3) More than likely, to make afking worth while to the point that you can gain rank fast, you would have to have a lot of time on your hands.

    If a person/group were exploiting a boss in a pve instance, and boss that is especially difficult, would it be fair to automatically say that raiding is easy, because the hardest raid boss can be exploited to never hit anyone ever and everyone can just nuke it down? Of course not. Because they are not using a legitimate strat. Had they fought the boss legitimately, the difficulty of pve could never be called into question, because the hardest boss, will continue being the hardest boss.

    Gearing and gaining rank though pvp is not -hard- but it takes a bit of time, and to progress even remotely fast, you have to have quite a bit of time on your hands, and depend on a lot of factors, that you simply do not face when you are pveing with your guild.

    And the time discrepancy is simply the biggest thing. If it takes 3 months of constant daily pvp to get to rank 8 + gear up. And it took 6 months to gear up a few people in a raid environment, through farm raiding, which you can do every week for 20 mans i believe (I dont raid much since i rather pvp and am usually a sub X when a person who signed up cant go) and you do all 3 raids, 2 hours each, 6 hours total. You mean to tell me they put in more effort and/or time than the person who pvps 3 hours a day, 7 days a week for 3 months? And its not like they can luck into a rank 8 piece at rank 1 after killing a raid boss healer.

    The pvper would have spent 252 hours, while the raider spent 144 hours to get gear.
    And that 252 hours doesnt is only to get rank 8, it doesnt mean he will be in full rank 7/8 gear after that 252 hours. There is not short cut in gearing for pvp, its straight progression.

  4. #124
    Plane Walker Samfortal's Avatar
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    I dont know if dev can find a solution but i dont think pvp gear shouldnt do pve end game.

    I see this as an envy of pve players that do not coneguirem pvp, they want the pvp staff is excluded.

    Pure jealousy. To get a set pvp takes much effort and the pve guys do not want admit that part of the game is do pvp and they are denying 50% of the game.
    Last edited by Samfortal; 09-21-2011 at 03:17 AM.
    Rift 2.6's - Things I miss a lot in Rift: 1. No lock raids or boss, only lock drops and tokens. 2. I want a button to visit to other servers more easily. 3. Too low FPS yet. Fix Rift Client please. 4. Fair PVP, too much unbalance and crap healing war.
    - Thinks i like most right now: 1. Hailol Footholds 2. Flexible builds 3. Mage tanking comming .

  5. #125
    Telaran
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    Did someone just jump into a pvp qq thread and use afking to r8 as his basis for comparison?

    Why am i not surprised?

  6. #126
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    But pve items still contribute to PvP much? Healing class fully loaded with SP and Procs that plays within a group is more usefull to his team then PvP geared ones. BEcause surviability is not an issue anymore! Someone calls here for nerfage? 20% of PvE only stats not applicable in PvP?...
    Or fully loaded with armor and HP defenceive tank? Will it be destroeyd? No. Probably not so hard like PvP geared but still very doable. Again teamplay changes it.
    Mages ... same. Teamplay allow them not to have full pvp set.

    SO basically valor is in group situation overrated. Good to have but not a must if you have somthing other to offer for group.

    So as we see in groups PvE geared people are not very weak if at all weak. Lests shift the whole and look at PvP gear. PvP items don't have any Dungeon/Raid requered stat ( hit/focus ) - so for pure PvP people dungeons are nogo. Lets make valor requred for PvP participance! Without 900 valor you dont have chance to hit / heal player in PvP. Fair? Yes it is? Will it be accepted? Answer by yourself.

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bulwif View Post
    Because it is too easy to get pvp gear for how good it is O_O
    How does someone wearing pvp gear affect you in any way shape or form when you are doing a pve instance/raid?

    Oh yeah.

    It doesn't.

    If people can get gear from pvp and pve it just gives you a wider pool of people with good gear to raid with and that can never be a bad thing. And it took me 300 hours to more or less to get rank 8, and that's not even fully geared out. With 200% and 150% bonus weekends for favor and prestige, 12 hours a day during those weekends (around 36 hours over 3 days). Have you spent anywhere near 300 hours in HK since it's been out? I bet not.

    P.S. Someone doing high end raids in pvp gear will still need to put in all those hours to get the hit/focus rating equipment required to do the raids, too. So really, they are putting in more time than you are just raiding. So in short, quit whining.
    Last edited by Reiz; 09-21-2011 at 04:16 AM.

  8. #128
    Rift Disciple Bulwif's Avatar
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    So, I logged in today and read some of the replies since last time I was on, and you know what happened? I went, Lollolololololol.

    Thanks for trolling kids

    P.S. - To all of you that fail reading comprehension, which is 90% of you apparently, I have made it abundantly clear this is not e-peen envy, this is my opinion on what I see as a flawed system where PvP gear is easier to obtain, and currently, until HK is on farm status like GSB and RoS currently are, is BiS unless you are putting relics on.

    Also, mouth breathers? Really? LOL
    http://forums.riftgame.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=772798&dateline=13612  32521

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bulwif View Post
    So, I logged in today and read some of the replies since last time I was on, and you know what happened? I went, Lollolololololol.

    Thanks for trolling kids

    P.S. - To all of you that fail reading comprehension, which is 90% of you apparently, I have made it abundantly clear this is not e-peen envy, this is my opinion on what I see as a flawed system where PvP gear is easier to obtain, and currently, until HK is on farm status like GSB and RoS currently are, is BiS unless you are putting relics on.

    Also, mouth breathers? Really? LOL
    lol it's the "I have no real argument so I'll insult people instead" tactic.

    Answer my question if you can without insults, please. How does some one getting their gear through pvp negatively affect you? Because as far as I can tell, it doesn't.

    If some one raids with pvp gear it doesn't remove your carrot. It's still there at the end of the stick. Until you can provide a better argument than "it's easier", we can all safely assume you're just jealous others have good gear and you some how feel your e-peen really is in jeopardy.

    And oh yeah, memorizing patterns from scripted npcs isn't hard, but good job thinking it is.
    Last edited by Reiz; 09-21-2011 at 12:46 PM.

  10. #130
    Prophet of Telara
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    I agree with the OP actually, in that it's a little silly you can take r8 gear into Hammerknell and be properly equipped for the most part to down the content. Just like how hit/focus affects pvp and relic weapons are annoying too (less so now, until people bring HK relics into pvp).

    I'm not sure how to fix this apart from introducing more pvp only stats and somehow reduce the effectiveness of pve gear in pvp (again mostly relic weaponry, but also hit/focus). But wouldn't that become a garbled mess of stats and weird mechanics? I dunno man, I'm starting to see the merit in GW2's system where they just completely seperate the two.
    Quote Originally Posted by pro View Post
    Rogues are completly fine to be honest.
    Quote Originally Posted by pro
    please stop qq about nerfs because i promise if u keep it up rift will shut down because they have no subribers and we will have wasted our money on a failed game simply because everyone was acting like little kids because they couldnt faceroll anyone and it actually took effort to kill them

  11. #131
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    Up to GW2? Where is a difference to creationg of 2 games ( GW2-PvP and GW2-PvE)...They are separated isnt ii?

  12. #132
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    I am HC raider that took time to reach R8 to have better contribution in progression.
    And if you have really taken time and compared HK drops to R8 pieces every single pieces in HK and its mark gears are better than R8 (PvP gear has more endurance thats about it).

    With the nerf to R8 crystal (I lost a whooping 125sp overnight) with the much better dps/utilities improvements on HK crystals starting with just 2 pieces which makes the difference night and day.
    I recently acquired my 2nd HK mark gear and picked up pyro crystal and it gave me 150 more dps running pyro ele compare to using PvP crystal... (I wont even go into all the crazy 4piece bonus that HK crystals provide.) so if PvE gear is indeed better than PvP gear (as we all know) in PvE then why all the QQing?

    While you all say PvP has no lock-outs and how easy it is to hit R8 should try it yourself. And when you start to replace those pieces because even the easiest bosses in HK drops better and see how other dudes in ur raid wearing crap gear has 1st dip over you because you spent the time for PvP gears to help the raid then come back and tell us how you and your sour grape attitude feels.

    Most guilds are grateful to have R8 people help pushing progression, you should be too. Because not only the R8 dudes are in the raid contribute much more than you do and are usually ok to pass that shining new HK gear drop (thats better than their P8 btw) to scrubs like you anyways.
    Last edited by WarUltima; 09-22-2011 at 02:39 AM.

  13. #133
    Rift Disciple Bulwif's Avatar
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    Bump for awesome?
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  14. #134
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    Well, for me the point is that, as someone pointed out earlier, the slots that don't have focus, feet, legs, belt, the Soothsayers gear is BiS outside of HK and better than some HK gear. I'm on a PvE server for a reason, PvP isn't what I like, isn't where my mindset is. I did the dailies to get Eye faction for the rune but I have no desire to go to Warfronts and shouldn't have to in a PvE environment for gear.

    As for time, looking at raids, GSB and RoS 5 bosses, DH and GP, 4 bosses, that's 54 drops for 60 players means I get almost one piece per week. I have 10 slots (crafted chest and shoulders are better than T3 gear) to fill so call it 11 weeks. That doesn't include missing weeks because we have more than 20 raiders. So basically I can get full slots in 2 and a half months. You can shave some time off that with Marks but I'm only wearing two pieces of T3 vendor gear the rest isn't as good as the raid drops or crafted. I was told by our PvPers that a month of grinding would get me R8.

    I would appreciate other points of view on how long it would take to get to R8 from scratch and if it comes close to 2 months.

  15. #135
    Telaran Khronic's Avatar
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    OP,

    That's a terrible mindset to take. Why would you want to nerf the members of your raid that put in the time and effort to get p8 gear to help better the raid as a whole simply because you want them to be on your level of dps/healing/whatever it is you do?

    Extremely selfish and lazy attitude imo.
    Khron | DPS Rogue

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