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Thread: Justicar Tank nerf?

  1. #31
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by marodeur View Post
    I hope they will change str being best for us in a future pts update.
    Yeah, I would like for Trion to improve wisdom for cleric tanks. Wisdom should be a better stat than strength for cleric tanks. Some more magic resistance for cleric tanks would be nice as well.

  2. #32
    Ascendant Zaros's Avatar
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    Whoa, you lost 2% mitigation? That really sucks! Talk about being nerfed hard.

    So, about Riftstalkers...
    ~Quiescent

  3. #33
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alceste007 View Post
    Yeah, I would like for Trion to improve wisdom for cleric tanks. Wisdom should be a better stat than strength for cleric tanks. Some more magic resistance for cleric tanks would be nice as well.
    ^^^ This ...is a constructive feedback post to get things changed for clerics. not one like the OP stated, that was more of a QQ post. So those that thing the post was made to relay feedback need to realize there are much better ways to state such things and be patient than to cram QQ's and Stat other Roles names in the post as if it makes a difference wether your viable or not.

  4. #34
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    As i wrote in the stat alloction feedback thread, i think the best and simplest solution would be to change of the the three tanking stats to be based off of wisdom instead of STR/DEX.

    So make one of Parry, Block or Dodge based off of widsom, so 1 wis give one of either block/parry/dodge.

    In order to ensure caster clerics do not get alot og added survivability from this, i think it should be block. Or perhaps it could be made so it only works when useing Mein of Leadership.

  5. #35
    Plane Touched
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    The above post is the best and easiest way to solve this problem. I mentioned it earlier as well. Just make wisdom the only stat that is important to stack and you have solved the issue. It should be the same for riftstalkers. They should be stacking their primary stat as much as they can to increase the tanking abilities they have.

    STR should not benefit clerics or rogues to determin block, parry, dodge whatever. All of those should be based off the classes primary stat.

  6. #36
    Prophet of Telara Radak's Avatar
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    A little bit of information for people with suggested changes.

    If they would simple make Stalwart citadel give 100% wisdom as block and Devout deflection give 100% wisdom as parry and 100% intelect as dodge you are looking at a massive avoidance loss.
    The reason is that a HK weapon + powerstone gives us a little over 500SP which is a lot of avoidance at the moment. And the slightly more avoidance from Wis and Int those changes would give won't compensate for that.

    What this means is that it either has to be significantly above 100% or to remain partly tied to SP in order to keep our avoidance stats at an equal level.

    A side affect of that change (if it was far above 100%) would also be that our weapon no longer provides a nice big upgrade similair to a warrior shield (because shield have a large amount of armor for them).
    Cleric tanking: Justicar guide | Justicar spreadsheet and item list
    Defence is as much a part of war as offense, the shield as important a tool as the sword.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angelamongus View Post
    Please...I don't mean to be rude but the numbers you are talking a reduction in are so small you need help to see them, and You are the ONLY tank class that gets a Stone put on your weapon that SIGNIFICANTLY Increases your tanking stats. I would love 200+ points in avoidance stats on my weapon <.< just saying...and Clerics tank almost if not everything in HK so don't even know why this thread was started really.

    P.S.
    Sorry if I come off rude but, damn I just hate hearing these entire communities start QQing cause they lost 4 str on an item ..or cause they recalculated stuff to help fix problems and the stuff isn't even LIVE yet. And ..on top of that we just got nerfed recently as well (Warriors) and had our blocked soft capped and DR applied to it as well so we lost more % than your 0.8%. Ya our block is still higher but we can't...i don't know..! SPAM HEAL ourselves O.o

    You aren't really thinking this through. Consider yourself. Post 1.5, Clerics will undoubtedly be competing with you for BiS Accesory slots and essences, period. Strength will become unchallenged as the best mitigation stat (as if it wasn't already). Do you really want Cleric tanks not only having access/requirement of chain tank gear, but Str/End/Block rings/necks that you would normally simply have dibs on? I'd tend to think no, as Trion has bothered to put Wis/End/Block Wis/End/Mitigate accessories/gear in the game. All we want is for those stats to be our best, instead of Strength, which isn't present on the clearly intended loot tables.

  8. #38
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asono View Post
    You aren't really thinking this through. Consider yourself. Post 1.5, Clerics will undoubtedly be competing with you for BiS Accesory slots and essences, period. Strength will become unchallenged as the best mitigation stat (as if it wasn't already). Do you really want Cleric tanks not only having access/requirement of chain tank gear, but Str/End/Block rings/necks that you would normally simply have dibs on? I'd tend to think no, as Trion has bothered to put Wis/End/Block Wis/End/Mitigate accessories/gear in the game. All we want is for those stats to be our best, instead of Strength, which isn't present on the clearly intended loot tables.

    I am not saying I want the current Itteration of the PTS to go live for any one class atm. I am just saying to the OP that!

    1) this is in fact ...TESTING, and is HIGHLY likely to be changed as they look at things from internal testers as well as feedback from you guys (hopefully non QQ threads)

    2) Even if this change went live, its like like your class would be Broken and couldn't tank or anything like that, you would just use diff stats till they fixed it.

    And no I would not want clerics rolling on my specified Jewelry soo....thats why i am in a guild =) Since we do loot in a smart, non biased way and allow certain classes priority on loot that is specified to them till those classes have it, then anyone else can have access.

    But on that note, my friend and guild leader is a cleric tank and he is amazing and has great gear and tanks well along side me in HK! We have no real issues and I don't think there will be after this patch either. In fact I don't think its true but, some clerics out there claim they have higher mitigation than even warriors atm which ..I really don't see. Its close..but I think clerics still slightly behind in the raidrift parses I look at anyway and he has more HK gear than I do atm, sigh I have no luck on drops =(.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angelamongus View Post
    But on that note, my friend and guild leader is a cleric tank and he is amazing and has great gear and tanks well along side me in HK! We have no real issues and I don't think there will be after this patch either. In fact I don't think its true but, some clerics out there claim they have higher mitigation than even warriors atm which ..I really don't see. Its close..but I think clerics still slightly behind in the raidrift parses I look at anyway and he has more HK gear than I do atm, sigh I have no luck on drops =(.
    Aye, i'm the GL and MT/Cleric tank of a HK guild too, and I have a warrior MT/OT with me. We have much the same thing going on, but honestly, you're going to be competing for str pieces if these changes go live, as str will be the unchallenged best stat for us. It's annoying. They should fix itemization one way or the other.

  10. #40
    RIFT Guide Writer Redcruxs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asono View Post
    You aren't really thinking this through. Consider yourself. Post 1.5, Clerics will undoubtedly be competing with you for BiS Accesory slots and essences, period. Strength will become unchallenged as the best mitigation stat (as if it wasn't already). Do you really want Cleric tanks not only having access/requirement of chain tank gear, but Str/End/Block rings/necks that you would normally simply have dibs on? I'd tend to think no, as Trion has bothered to put Wis/End/Block Wis/End/Mitigate accessories/gear in the game. All we want is for those stats to be our best, instead of Strength, which isn't present on the clearly intended loot tables.
    Just a hint to cleric tanks out there:

    Don't Stack STR!

    trion has already announced that they are doing a FULL tanking review shortly after 1.5 and im sure that top priority for cleric tanks is there reliance on strength (which supposedly isnt a cleric stat) because with these changes in 1.5 you can clearly see that the devs intention is for each class to be rolling primarily on their own stat.

    i've played games for long enough to know when its a good time to get ahead of the curve and THIS IS IT

    (don't be like those warriors who stacked rogue leather plaque items and are crying now)
    Last edited by Redcruxs; 09-16-2011 at 08:14 AM.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redcruxs View Post
    Just a hint to cleric tanks out there:

    Don't Stack STR!

    i've played games for long enough to know when its a good time to get ahead of the curve and THIS IS IT

    (don't be like those warriors who stacked rogue leather plaque items and are crying now)
    I can tell you that it doesn't matter what's coming in 2 months when you're wiping/progressing nightly to HK bosses and need to get every advantage you can to tank *today*.

    Yes, absolutely, i expect nothing short of them fully reviewing and fixing the current stat misallocation and deficiency. That doesn't mean gimp your current stats and sacrifice your ability to minmax in your current content in the name of future hopes for patches.

  12. #42
    RIFT Guide Writer Redcruxs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asono View Post
    I can tell you that it doesn't matter what's coming in 2 months when you're wiping/progressing nightly to HK bosses and need to get every advantage you can to tank *today*.

    Yes, absolutely, i expect nothing short of them fully reviewing and fixing the current stat misallocation and deficiency. That doesn't mean gimp your current stats and sacrifice your ability to minmax in your current content in the name of future hopes for patches.
    i highly doubt your raid is going to fail HK bosses due to your cleric tank stacking wisdom lessers over str lessers. also im pretty sure there are world first cleric tanks stacking wisdom exclusively, Xitan comes to mind. at some point gimping yourself in the future isnt worth a tiny increase in block for a few weeks

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redcruxs View Post
    i highly doubt your raid is going to fail HK bosses due to your cleric tank stacking wisdom lessers over str lessers. also im pretty sure there are world first cleric tanks stacking wisdom exclusively, Xitan comes to mind. at some point gimping yourself in the future isnt worth a tiny increase in block for a few weeks
    It's arguable, and pre-1.5, Wis/Str were *almost* on par, with Wis taking the cake for a lot of folks due to increases in DoL's DoA's DoB's etc and what have you.

    That said, with 1.5, they're stacking the numbers against Wis, at least until they announce some kind of change to the intended mechanics/stats for cleric tanks. I'm hoping this will happen soonish.

  14. #44
    General of Telara
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    I'll just be making a str focus when I want max mitigation and a wisdom focus when I want better raid healing. And also, according to Radak's calcs, dex becomes slightly superior to str for mitigation once capped on parry & soft capped on block)

    With most raid rift pugs (at least on my server) restricting loots to the role you joined as, it's pretty easy to pile up essences if you don't get too unlucky on drops.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angelamongus View Post
    Please...I don't mean to be rude but the numbers you are talking a reduction in are so small you need help to see them, and You are the ONLY tank class that gets a Stone put on your weapon that SIGNIFICANTLY Increases your tanking stats. I would love 200+ points in avoidance stats on my weapon <.< just saying...and Clerics tank almost if not everything in HK so don't even know why this thread was started really.

    P.S.
    Sorry if I come off rude but, damn I just hate hearing these entire communities start QQing cause they lost 4 str on an item ..or cause they recalculated stuff to help fix problems and the stuff isn't even LIVE yet. And ..on top of that we just got nerfed recently as well (Warriors) and had our blocked soft capped and DR applied to it as well so we lost more % than your 0.8%. Ya our block is still higher but we can't...i don't know..! SPAM HEAL ourselves O.o
    I hate that argument, it's one of the most stupid arguments in existence and I hate you for making it, so let's look at why. With the powerstone on I sit at around 33% block chance (goes up 20% due to precept), 13% dodge and 13% parry where as a warrior in slightly inferior gear to me, sits at both 15% dodge, 15% parry and a whopping 44% block chance out of combat.

    Not to mention in my 51 Justi spec I only sit at around 13.5k armour, where as a warrior sits at around 17k, that's TOTALLY even because I can maths. Also before someone is like herpa derp l2gear. I'm in almost full pre HK BiS and have just started HK.

    We NEED powerstones to get that 5% avoidance closer to a warrior, so that's just further reason being a justicar tank is both infuriating and ridiculous and saying we're lucky to have it, makes you a downs hero. inb4trybeingariftstalker

    Also self healing for around 550-650 and not having it overheal in a raid, is difficult and a big threat loss if you fail, not to mention as each one is effectively 3 seconds of work (1 conviction build + 1 GCD use) 200 HPS is nothing compared to your massively higher mitigation all round. If the heals went off by themselves when we took damage, hell yeah I'd stop complaining about being a justicar, but they don't.
    Last edited by Movcog; 09-16-2011 at 10:46 AM.

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