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Thread: Rogue = OP now (unbalanced) on PTR -- Dev's please address

  1. #1
    Soulwalker
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    Default Rogue = OP now (unbalanced) on PTR -- Dev's please address

    Prior to 1.5, Rogue's needed a slight (5-10%ish) buff in PVP (only) DPS -- assuming survivability remained the same (i.e. no nerfing of Slip Away/etc).

    The changes that have been made are way out of whack -- and you are simply creating a new significantly OP class.

    You have increased their survivability significantly -- forget playing subtlely or striking from the distance as the key advantage, now just steam role, AND utilize stealth to go in or go out as needed. Way too powerful. Vamp healing -- really? Self healing -- really? They still having survival CDs, CC, healing debuffs -- all in a single spec?

    But, it doesn't stop there -- you have also added significant damage increases across multiple abilities? And after Slip Away, a target's DOTs still tick along their merry way?

    Rogue's don't even need stealth now -- they just charge you like a warrior, high dps your face, and if they want to Slip Away, can still have the dots tick a good percentage of your health (of course, you remain in combat due to that). But, they still have stealth? I'm not suggesting taking away stealth -- I'm suggesting look at all the perks and come to a reality check that it is unbalanced.

    The balance pendulum has swung far too much into Roguedom. This simply further unbalances the Rogue class relative to other classes, and unfortunately only encourages people to look towards other games (like SW:TOR).

    Please, Trion -- review the combat logs on PTR -- review the 1x1s, the 2x2s, the 2x1s, the Warfronts, the random world encounters -- and come back to reality. The Rogue tweaks are way overdone. Class of the month is a terrible way to play a game. It only continually pisses off 3/4 of the population, to please 1/4.

  2. #2
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    Ahh yes. Can't wait for 50 more threads like this to fill the forums on the day the patch goes live. Not even going to try to PVP.

    PS: I'm sure Rogue PVP damage was modeled after something like the Parachamp (previously highest melee dps class in PVP.) Of course, Rogues aren't going to have that 50% damage reduction hot-fix applied to their abilities....
    Last edited by nocks; 09-14-2011 at 11:02 AM.

  3. #3
    Sword of Telara
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    I'm pretty sure most of us were expecting Rogues to become the new OP class and FOTM with this patch. So I'm not surprised at all...

  4. #4
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    For starters, the DoT damage from bleeds does NOT keep you in combat.

    Period.

    Rogues are in a good place now. If you look at what will likely become one of the more common hybrid builds (40SIN/16NB/10BD), they'll basically be a champion with daggers and leather armor with a bit of stealth and self healing to make up the difference.

    Rogues needed a hell of a lot more than a 10% damage buff across the board to be viable in PvP. Don't kid yourself.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Licentia View Post
    They'll basically be a champion with daggers and leather armor with a bit of stealth and self healing to make up the difference.
    No, a Champion with stealth and self-healing doesn't sound over-powered at all...

    And Champion armor never did anything against mages and clerics. AND Champions were nerfed to do less damage in PVP.

  6. #6
    Ascendant Vyxagallanxchi's Avatar
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    Somehow, I don't see any rogue build being able to stand up to a warrior. It's the healing clerics and chlorolocks that are gonna get their faces obliterated. And everyone always QQs about their OPness so... yeah... COUNTERS! :P
    Last edited by Vyxagallanxchi; 09-14-2011 at 11:07 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Majorin View Post
    Think of a 30 meter circle around all ranged dps rogues and mages. Ranged dps can stand in the back line and focus fire targets without worrying about mobility and most forms of cc.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zinbik View Post
    Sounds like an excellent plan for your healers to follow as well, as they have an even longer range on their heals.

  7. #7
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    Indeed.. when I do go back to PVP after 1.5, it's going to be as a reflective-damage build with a lot of points in block and a shield...

  8. #8
    Rift Disciple
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    Guess its just a matter of opinion. It's all about the balance of survivability vs damage. Rogues didn't do enough damage to justify how easy they were to kill. So they either needed to greatly buff their survivability or greatly increase their damage. Compared to the options in mages/clerics/warriors these changes to their damage and survivability are not out of line.

    They're just not free blood thirsty procs anymore. Everyone will need to adapt their play style a little, because rogues actually represent a threat now, but by no means is this overpowered unless you are willing to say that warriors/clerics/mages are also currently "op".

    The fact that I think its not enough and you think its over powered, that probably means Trion did something right.

  9. #9
    Champion of Telara Arcshayde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nocks View Post
    No, a Champion with stealth and self-healing doesn't sound over-powered at all...

    And Champion armor never did anything against mages and clerics. AND Champions were nerfed to do less damage in PVP.
    But Champion armor did plenty against most rogue souls, add in a few busted abilities like earth burst and stonespear, plus a handful of off-the-gcd abilities and you've got yourself a nice little macro-friendly fotm already.
    Shayde@Seastone

  10. #10
    Prophet of Telara
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    So far, the testing that I have read still suggests that P8 Rogues pretty much can't kill P8 Warriors - provided the Warrior knows what he's doing. That being said...too many people spouting misinformation these days. It's hard to find a single truth in your whole post...

  11. #11
    Rift Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luterin View Post
    I'm pretty sure most of us were expecting Rogues to become the new OP class and FOTM with this patch. So I'm not surprised at all...
    Pretty much.
    With how god-awful most rogue players are I figured they'd have to poop Colombian mercenary contracts and shoot 1-shotting lasers out of their nipples for the typical rogue player to have a chance.

    Not surprised how it's turning out to be that way. I mean, on live right now a rogue with no valor can basically target dummy any P8 warrior down without taking damage.
    Last edited by Valanceer; 09-14-2011 at 11:15 AM.

  12. #12
    Rift Disciple Hateborne's Avatar
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    Can mages get a viable spec now that doesn't involve Warlock or Dominator?

    Chloromancer comes to mind as needing survivability increase.
    (Making Wild Abandon work while stunned comes to mind or allowing the Nature's Cleansing to dispel 1 movement affect on caster [not 1 psn/dis/curse AND movement, 1 psn/dis/curse/movement])

    Pyromancer got bent over because of GoS and Powerball. Powerball bit it, GoS is weak, can we get our damage back and the removal of GCD from Inferno?

    Stormcaller does decent damage but is dead in the water without a team to guard him. Could we make Icy Vortex FREEZE the targets when struck? (not meaning root, meaning popsicle them and classify it as a incapacitate that CAN break on damage but not insta-breaks) Or maybe even make Tailwind remove all snares/slows but add 5sec cooldown to prevent spamming?


    WTB Viable Mage Specs, PST


    -Hate

  13. #13
    Prophet of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valanceer View Post
    Pretty much.
    With how god-awful most rogue players are I figured they'd have to poop Colombian mercenary contracts and shoot 1-shotting lasers out of their nipples for the typical rogue player to have a chance.

    Not surprised how it's turning out to be that way.
    Not to suggest that there aren't bad Rogues, but it is hilarious to watch Warrior videos where they are literally mashing two buttons and then watch Rogue videos where they are using skills with precision, interrupting at the right times, kiting, and doing everything in the book to win. Then the Warrior calls said Rogue a "bad" lol.

    Just goes to prove that you guys have had it far too good for far too long.

    *EDIT* And what are you smoking? A P1 Rogue killing a P8 Warrior without taking damage? Now everyone knows you are lying...

    @Hateborne - SC's don't need any help, they are exactly where they should be. Pyros on the other hand were balanced before recent factors came into play. Now with valor, more health, etc etc, they should restore the damage IMHO.
    Last edited by Calo; 09-14-2011 at 11:18 AM.

  14. #14
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    ITT: Rogues=Assassins only
    DK of The Fast and the Fairyous: Tokyo Rift

  15. #15
    Plane Touched
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    So wait they do more damage, can heal themselves, have a healing debuff, have stealth, but can they still go immune to magic damage with all of that?

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