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Thread: New BD changes

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deathwhisperzz View Post
    Some little cc immunity? That's an almost 1/3 uptime cc immunity. A deep BD / inf could be immune to cc for 25 sec if he wanted to by chaining cds.

    Kitting is NOT possible on live, because casters lack mobility (their mobility is much worse than melee, especially warriors) and snares are almost useless. By adding even more gapclosers (there are too many already), you're making things even worse for casters, while not changing their crappy mobility.
    That's stupid. Trion added a very powerful DR system making cc spells very weak, and then added tons of CC / snare breakers.
    They either need to change the DR system and make ALL snares and knockbacks off DR and add new DR groups, or remove most cc breakers. You can't have both, otherwise cc will be useless like in 1.5 with the new cc breakers everyone gets.
    rogues have 0 gap closers on live(well theres the 23 point talent which no one uses in pvp) so if you can't kite a melee rogue you need to plug your mouse back in
    Last edited by Arrinx; 09-11-2011 at 04:18 AM.

  2. #32
    RIFT Guide Writer Zyzyx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taemek View Post
    I read the OP as:

    "Please don't put this in because I love kiting Rogues to death on my Mage, doing this change will make it harder for me and letting them get close could mean death."
    Defining moment of thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Daglar View Post
    When time allows I'll be looking at the issue with the class guys.

  3. #33
    Ascendant Vyxagallanxchi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arrinx View Post
    i honestly don't belive anyone will care if the 4 second immunity gets removed i certainly won't seeing as going 21 points deep into a tree that's all about phsyical damage/being dodged in order to put out real damage isn't going to work well for pvp
    ^This. Who the hell is going to go 21 points into BD for PvP anyway? People are gonna run 51sin, 51MM, some NB build that I don't know, stuff like that. And the people that DO go 21 BD, they probably aren't going to hit very hard. If hit was nonfactor in PvP, then BD could potentially be a good tree. But because any good PvPer is going to have some hit somewhere in his gear, BD talents all go to suck.
    Quote Originally Posted by Majorin View Post
    Think of a 30 meter circle around all ranged dps rogues and mages. Ranged dps can stand in the back line and focus fire targets without worrying about mobility and most forms of cc.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zinbik View Post
    Sounds like an excellent plan for your healers to follow as well, as they have an even longer range on their heals.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vyxagallanxchi View Post
    ^This. Who the hell is going to go 21 points into BD for PvP anyway? People are gonna run 51sin, 51MM, some NB build that I don't know, stuff like that. And the people that DO go 21 BD, they probably aren't going to hit very hard. If hit was nonfactor in PvP, then BD could potentially be a good tree. But because any good PvPer is going to have some hit somewhere in his gear, BD talents all go to suck.
    The new Contra tempo talent says 100% chance to add an extra combo point when using Precision Strike and Quick Strike. This basically means that any attack you use will have deadly dance buff because you'll be able to use Deadly strike every 2-3 attacks.

    blade/sin/nb or blade/sin/mm will probably be highest dps.

  5. #35
    Ascendant Vyxagallanxchi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mithran83 View Post
    The new Contra tempo talent says 100% chance to add an extra combo point when using Precision Strike and Quick Strike. This basically means that any attack you use will have deadly dance buff because you'll be able to use Deadly strike every 2-3 attacks.

    blade/sin/nb or blade/sin/mm will probably be highest dps.
    Even with that, warriors will still kick the **** out of you, and clerics and mages will probably still outheal your damage as it's all physical and thus is subject to minimum of like 35% reduction before valor. Even with the heal debuff, your damage is still not likely to be enough. And if the crit changes go live, well, you end up doing even less damage so yeah. I really don't see BD being competitive in PvP. In PvE sure, I could see it. But until hit stops affecting PvP and until Physical damage is useful in PvP, BD is probably still going to be mediocre.
    Quote Originally Posted by Majorin View Post
    Think of a 30 meter circle around all ranged dps rogues and mages. Ranged dps can stand in the back line and focus fire targets without worrying about mobility and most forms of cc.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zinbik View Post
    Sounds like an excellent plan for your healers to follow as well, as they have an even longer range on their heals.

  6. #36
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    Between the improvements to Rhythms (no more exhaustion and 15 seconds off all their cooldowns) and Contra Tempo effectively letting you Deadly Dance every single combo builder... things are looking up for Bladedancer PvE at least. Though we won't be able to test it thoroughly till the AP values are fixed on test.

    A few little things I'd like to see tweaked still:

    Twin Strike - Contra Tempo's buff to Quick and Precision (though great) has dropped this one even further into the waste bin. Can anything be done to make this AoE a little less frail?

    Improved False Blade - If you're adamant about not scrapping this talent, well, fine I suppose. But can it be dropped a tier or two down in the tree so Riftstalkers can have the option to scoop it up using BD as a sub-soul? Maybe exhange places with Deadly Dance or something like that?

    Dancing Steel - Maybe slap a 50 or 100% bonus from AP on this to help it's damage scale a little bit better. If it really is meant to be the Bladedancer's sole effective AoE.

    (PvP) As long as the Hit stat on equipment allows players to effectively reduce an enemy Bladedancer's Dodge and Parry chance to nearly 0% all of the avoidance based talents are still not going to be worth anything in that arena.
    Last edited by Kedon; 09-11-2011 at 08:30 AM.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deathwhisperzz View Post
    These simply can't go live.

    Flash of steel is now a 10 pts root and there's a new 21 pt talent that makes the rogue immune to all cc and snares for 4 sec after using flash of steel (which has a 15 sec cd).

    Cc (especially snares) is already too weak with the current DR system. You're allowing BD to be immune to ALL cc for nearly 1/3 of the time and giving them a low-cd charge for a very small investment.
    This just can't work. It's already impossible to kite in this game and you're making things even worse for casters by adding new cc breakers (flash of steel, new 20 point assassin cc breaker) and making healing reductions available to almost every rogue by changing vampiric munitions and fell blades to 18 and 16 roots respectively.

    If you want to keep these changes, then make kitting possible once more by removing DR on snares / knockbacks (it makes no sense with all these snare breakers available) and by adding more mobility abilities to casters. Otherwise, PvP is going to become even more stupid than now. Fixing the broken DR system should be the 1st PvP priority now.

    Oh and please, fix cc's starting DR when they hit someone that's immune because of a buff (like break free). DR should NEVER start if you don't successfully cc your target. Some cc spells like death's edict have a damage component attached to them, and you'd sometimes like to use it on someone who's immune to cc for it's damage component. But with the current system, your target won't be affected by the stun effect but the DR will still start. The new flash of steel makes things even worse...
    Warriors are 10x better at breaking your cc and closing the gap then rogues are.. ohh and they can pump are 2-4x the dps too... but yeah quick nerf the rogues... ohh and keep warriors as gods...

  8. #38
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    ^This. Who the hell is going to go 21 points into BD for PvP anyway? ....
    The few rogues that don't currently suck.

  9. #39
    Ascendant Vyxagallanxchi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tuluka View Post
    The few rogues that don't currently suck.
    Enjoy your useless talents then. 21 points in BD gets you Deadly dance and the immunity to CC. The other 17 points you had to spend do virtually nothing in PvP.
    Quote Originally Posted by Majorin View Post
    Think of a 30 meter circle around all ranged dps rogues and mages. Ranged dps can stand in the back line and focus fire targets without worrying about mobility and most forms of cc.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zinbik View Post
    Sounds like an excellent plan for your healers to follow as well, as they have an even longer range on their heals.

  10. #40
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    Well, I'm not familar with the current tree, loading up pts soon to check it out. I was referring to live. Strike Back, reprisal, 10 hit, 15% dex, 10 seconds off exhaustion, and sprint all seem very useless for pvp indeed...

    Oh ya, and the roots you get, weapon barrage, combat prep to name a few.
    Last edited by tuluka; 09-11-2011 at 09:14 AM.

  11. #41
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    Gap closers should have DRs.

    It's only fair. Skills to increase gaps have DRs, so skills to close gaps should have DRs.

    GSB: 5/5, RoS: 4/4, HK: 10/11
    GP: 4/4, DH: 4/4

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by FireWraith View Post
    Gap closers should have DRs.

    It's only fair. Skills to increase gaps have DRs, so skills to close gaps should have DRs.
    You mean like...a cooldown?

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Licentia View Post
    You mean like...a cooldown?
    Best comeback of the day.

  14. #44
    Champion of Telara Elric-merren's Avatar
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    As has been said afew time before the biggest issue for Bladedancer is that with a small amount of hit you can largely negate their talents, and several abilities which is terrible really since Bladedancer sounds like a soul that should be pretty competitive in a pvp setting. If this would be adjusted to make it harder to negate the abbilities that are based about didging and parrying attacks,while also moving some of the defensive abilities alittle lower in the tree i could see the bladednacer becoming more of a viable soul. Some changes that would be interestig would be eeing reprisal and sprint switching spots, same with either imp. false blade or turn the tide switching with strike back, with the largest change being either a abbility or talent that would make anyone attacking a bladedancer gain a 5% penalty (this is merely for having a number not sure what amount of hit percent most pvpers need to negate a bladedancer's ability to dodge, as well as parry attacks.) to their hit percent. Now if it were just a talent i could see it added to imp false blade as a buff to dauntless strike, with it giving 2% reduction at the first point and 5 at the full specced version. With this change i would think though that making it that either dauntless strike either stacks with other buffs to crit or that only the hit percent reduction would be active with the crit bonus not overwriting in raids at least.

  15. #45
    Champion Deathwhisperzz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Licentia View Post
    You mean like...a cooldown?
    Because cc spells don't have one either? Escape abilities for casters don't have one? There are too many cc breakers / gap closers for such a broken & restrictive DR system.

    Kitting is impossible in this game for casters, and new rogue changes are making it even worse unless you're a MM. Trion should really rework the DR mechanic or remove most cc breakers to make kitting possible once more.

    However, I agree that hit shouldn't affect PvP. Make dodge and parry useful once more.
    Last edited by Deathwhisperzz; 09-12-2011 at 10:57 AM.

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