+ Reply to Thread
Page 7 of 21 FirstFirst ... 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 17 ... LastLast
Results 91 to 105 of 313
Like Tree103Likes

Thread: A raid leader's plea about Mages and Clerics in 1.5, increase their DPS please.

  1. #91
    Plane Touched Malkieri's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    240

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bluelightt View Post
    The reason you're seeing those differences is because cleric/mage DPS is very heavily reliant on gear while warrior/rogue DPS basically needs a good weapon to see huge gains and minimal gain from the rest of the gear.
    Until everyone get full BiS and then warriors out dps everyone else by 800 or so. Rogues come in second, close to Mages, and Clerics are a fair bit behind them.

  2. #92
    Telaran
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    80

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Calippo View Post
    i got full t3 gear + crafted gear got hk staff from trash
    playing 35/31 pyro 38/28 zoomancer or necrolock 38/28
    some warrior who got normal t3 polearm pressing one button and he is makıng same dps wıth me.
    it is fair ? and think about when he get relic or hk polearm better than me like %20-%15
    we are kıllıng murdantıx ,zıleas ,mını boss and grugonım now (13m hp and enrage tıme 10-11mın)
    ın our raıd we dont have more than 3-4 mage --1 chloro-1archon -1 dps(7 dps warrior 2 tank warrior 4-5 rogue dps ..if you thınk mages ıs fıne go take 8 dps mages+1chloro+1archon ın raıd and try grugonım it will be world first for sure..dont make me laugh

    you will say cleric healer mages got good support dps and heal..
    I dont thınk when trion creating this game .they were thınkıng to make mage support dps only?
    Actually I really think that the issue of DPS is really in large part due to this... A warrior/rogue gearing a brand new weapon can see a very healthy increase in their dps right away. A mage or cleric typically will not. The very simple reason for this is that there is a disparity between in weaponization of the classes. A warrior's dps can be largely attributed to what he or she is weilding in their mainhand/offhand. The armor that they were simply raises that "base" amount of dps x percent. Casters in this game are NOT in the same way gauranteed the same dps increase as caster dps is entirely dependant on every single piece that the caster may be wearing.

    This is a design oversight that has caught many MANY MMO's unawares and something that I think Rift is currently suffering massively from. Id actually like to see some parses of mage vs warrior vs rogue vs cleric... All using ONLY the same item level weapons.

  3. #93
    aux
    aux is offline
    Ascendant aux's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    2,306

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Poochymama View Post
    The highest single target mage parses are higher than the highest Rogue parses.
    Well they should be, since whetstones are bugged right now and when they're fixed, Rogues will gain somewhere around 10-20% DPS (someone else can do the math, but my point is it's a big deal ).
    I'm so BORED

  4. #94
    Ascendant Alyvian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    1,553

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by shylope View Post
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Actually it's a pve/pvp game. A pve game would have no pvp in it. They have open world pvp, pvp server and battlegrounds for all servers with pvp gear vendors. They nerfed items obtained by people spending hundreds and hundreds of hours to get because pver players that did not want to spend the time go them nerfed. I don't blame you for crying I think the time it took them to get the items much have been nuts I would not want to grind to r8.

    Anyway it's all the same game so like other said, find better mages and clerics. They are already very powerfull they just need to learn to play.
    nice failing, nowhere did i cry about r8 or the time it took, especially as i aint a pvper. AND a pve game with pvp tacked on as a clear after thought doesnt make it a pve/pvp game. If you are playing this for the pvp you are playing the wrong game/genre.


    http://tinyurl.com/RaremobsSL < Almost complete SL rare list.

  5. #95
    Shadowlander Metoz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    30

    Default

    You're kidding right, Mages and Clerics do fine in hammerknell at the moment. If they are struggling then they are clearly doing something wrong.

    Full consumables on sicaron we had mages peak at around 3.6k and consistently flow around 2.8k ...so overall having around 38k raid dps...it wasnt much of a problem.

    and as for zilas...cabalists and stormcallers dominate the meters.....you'd be stupid not to make use of their amazing aoe capabilities in such an encounter. ...and for murdantix? please..this is clearly a melee friendly encounter....and running a mobile friendly build such as "defile" nec/lock....you can easily sustain 2k+ ...breaking enrage timers is a joke on mostly all of these encounters....i dont see the issue here.
    Last edited by Metoz; 09-14-2011 at 01:32 AM.

  6. #96
    Prophet of Telara Shhhh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    1,036

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Metoz View Post
    You're kidding right, Mages and Clerics do fine in hammerknell at the moment. If they are struggling then they are clearly doing something wrong.

    Full consumables on sicaron we had mages peak at around 3.6k and consistently flow around 2.8k ...so overall having around 38k raid dps...it wasnt much of a problem.
    bull ****.

    /10char
    Last edited by Shhhh; 09-14-2011 at 03:56 AM.

  7. #97
    RIFT Guide Writer Hokonoso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    4,692

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ekzessive View Post
    Actually I really think that the issue of DPS is really in large part due to this... A warrior/rogue gearing a brand new weapon can see a very healthy increase in their dps right away. A mage or cleric typically will not. The very simple reason for this is that there is a disparity between in weaponization of the classes. A warrior's dps can be largely attributed to what he or she is weilding in their mainhand/offhand. The armor that they were simply raises that "base" amount of dps x percent. Casters in this game are NOT in the same way gauranteed the same dps increase as caster dps is entirely dependant on every single piece that the caster may be wearing.

    This is a design oversight that has caught many MANY MMO's unawares and something that I think Rift is currently suffering massively from. Id actually like to see some parses of mage vs warrior vs rogue vs cleric... All using ONLY the same item level weapons.
    it's not that simple, warriors yes, not so with rogues, we still need to be at or near the crit cap and if we rock bladedancer we need an equally geared offhand as well. what's sad is, my warrior can parse as high as my full t3 BiS rogue with hk sword and relic offhand and all my warrior has is the t3 polearm from DH and some random t3 drops and t2 plaque gear. ofc that is with the manual RW rotation (which btw id say 1 in 100 or so warriors can do properly, the rest are 200+ dps behind the proper rotation).

    highest rogue dps for single target for murdantix is 2300, whoever said 2600 is smoking some crack, 2300 is done with full R8 gear and before the nerfed AP to vengeance, but for aoe, ive yet to see someone beat my 3300 zilas parse, sabodancer aoe is just broken when done properly, can easily sustain 5k if mobs are staying alive long enough. ive seen mages rip **** up, but they only do it for when cooldowns are up then back to mediocrity, just like marksman. mages need higher sustainable non burst single target dps, and clerics need a revamp, you could almost double cleric melee dps and it still will be behind warriors.

    p.s. warriors are fine, most can not break 2k on murdantix with best gear as they cannot do a manual rotation, 51champ is easy enough and will consistently do 2k on that fight, other classes would like to do as much as warriors is all :P
    Useful Rogue guides since I don't want to answer 50 billion questions anymore:
    Marksman, Ranger, Nightblade, Blink'Blade, Asstalker, Assdancer, and finally The Hoko Spec™
    Hoko, teaching noobs the way of rogue pve until 12/20/11.

  8. #98
    Rift Master Spyrit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    682

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tuplis View Post
    I agree to this post whole heartedly. I'm a cleric myself so yeah, I guess people could say I'm biased but I'd just like to bring up a case of our guild hitting this wall:

    We were trying Sicaron on thursday. We had an "ideal" raid composition: 5 of each class. What happened was that we were floating around the 26k dps mark which is barely enough. Two hours into the raid one of our rogues has to leave due to other commitments and we have nothing but a cleric to replace him with... Suddenly we can't even have real tries on the boss again. At the moment the only reason we're taking more than 2 clerics to HK is solidarity. Our situation is that we have more than enough clerics and mages but are short on rogues and warriors. I'm not asking to be able to faceroll the place with whatever composition. I'm asking to be able to have real tries with having more than 6 mana users.

    Edit:
    And the real ***** of the bunch is that we've found that the clerics are being utilized best by making them do just/inq and just/sham hybrids... Well guess what... they're getting shafted BAD come 1.5 if things go as planned.
    45 Inq/11/10 sent. Still working. Uptime on CP is very high. If they do intend to make CP 10 seconds in duration, it'll be a permanant passive buff from 45 points in at least.
    Last edited by Spyrit; 09-14-2011 at 04:47 AM.

  9. #99
    Rift Master Spyrit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    682

    Default

    5 minutes edit * I am cuirous as to how shamicar held up, they have been very silent thus far.

  10. #100
    Plane Touched
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    194

    Default

    Something that would go a long ways in correcting the disparity between warriors/rogues and clerics/mages is making Living energy provide a dps boost somehow. If you take away energy reduction a lot of energy users raid builds fall way behind to the point of not being useable as another build such as 51rb or something can maintain it's energy and pull more consistent dps. I don't want them to take away LE/Fervor at all, they're wonderful and noticeable even on my lowbie energy users. However I literally only notice that the buffs dropped off in raid due to bard dying to something when I see the warriors and rogues dip in dps significantly. Energy redux literally plays 0 factor in my clerics raid dps builds, yet it's a requirement for a lot of energy users raid builds and ups their dps by at least 20%. Find a way to get energy redux to do something for mana users and you can close that gap. I just don't have any good ideas of what to do yet..
    Last edited by timc0907; 09-14-2011 at 05:28 AM.

  11. #101
    Plane Walker
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    469

    Default

    Sounds to be like your guild has a composition and member number problem
    And to ask people to buff classes based on your guild composition is, well, kind of simple

    You mention 4 fights 2 of which mages do more dps then the warriors and rogues (Matron and Zilas)

    I do agree with cleric ST but we dont use clerics for dps. We run 5 warriors (1tank) 5 rogues, 6 mages, and 4 clerics (1 tank) sometimes 5 clerics 5 mages depending on who is on

    Why do you not ask to make warrior and rogues AoE dps comporable with mages and buff mages ST?

    Now I certainly am aware as far as ST rotation goes it is more difficult to be a mage but our 2 dps mages are very comporable ST and kill everyone in AoE

    Our one DPS cleric was comporable with rogues dps as well but he is now our 2nd tank

  12. #102
    Prophet of Telara Shhhh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    1,036

    Default

    U talk about someones raid composition then say ur second tank is a cleric. Irony at its finest.

  13. #103
    Ascendant Vaine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    2,322

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Shhhh View Post
    U talk about someones raid composition then say ur second tank is a cleric. Irony at its finest.
    whats wrong with a cleric off tank?
    <The Unnamed> GSB 5/5 ROS 4/4 GP 4/4 DH 4/4 HK 10/11
    Lace - Whitefall- R8 Warrior
    Mythril - Whitefall- R8 Cleric

  14. #104
    RIFT Guide Writer Sebb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    4,638

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hokonoso View Post
    it's not that simple, warriors yes, not so with rogues, we still need to be at or near the crit cap and if we rock bladedancer we need an equally geared offhand as well. what's sad is, my warrior can parse as high as my full t3 BiS rogue with hk sword and relic offhand and all my warrior has is the t3 polearm from DH and some random t3 drops and t2 plaque gear. ofc that is with the manual RW rotation (which btw id say 1 in 100 or so warriors can do properly, the rest are 200+ dps behind the proper rotation).

    highest rogue dps for single target for murdantix is 2300, whoever said 2600 is smoking some crack, 2300 is done with full R8 gear and before the nerfed AP to vengeance, but for aoe, ive yet to see someone beat my 3300 zilas parse, sabodancer aoe is just broken when done properly, can easily sustain 5k if mobs are staying alive long enough. ive seen mages rip **** up, but they only do it for when cooldowns are up then back to mediocrity, just like marksman. mages need higher sustainable non burst single target dps, and clerics need a revamp, you could almost double cleric melee dps and it still will be behind warriors.

    p.s. warriors are fine, most can not break 2k on murdantix with best gear as they cannot do a manual rotation, 51champ is easy enough and will consistently do 2k on that fight, other classes would like to do as much as warriors is all :P
    Basically this.... I'm pretty much BIS T3 and I struggle to keep above 2k on murdantix (mainly due to the fact that I'm pure interrupt duty which f's up control rotation).

    Rogues QQ about not being same ST dps as warriors, but you don't hear warriors QQ about the fact that rogues blow away in AOE dps with same spec. There are balances to be had. If there was a rogue melee spec that did poor AOE (like most War specs), then I'm fully on board with them doing same ST DPS as warriors.

    When comparing specs, you must consider:
    1. ST DPS
    2. AOE DPS
    3. Movement friendliness.
    Seb - R40 OP PVP Warrior
    Solo Tanking Akylios - But I hate tanking Plutonus.
    New WF Idea for Rift
    SAVE THE VK!!!

  15. #105
    Prophet of Telara
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    1,011

    Default

    It really comes down to the fact that in any raid you'll have 1~3 tanks, typically warriors. You'll have 1~3 ST healers, mix of healing cleric souls and chloro. You'll have 1~2 support (bard/archon) and 1~3 raid healers (icars/chloros).

    EVERYTHING ELSE IS DPS, which is often 12 people.

    Assuming you're aiming for a 5 split of each calling, you'll be having 1~4 of each class for DPS. That's definitely going to be problematic if you have some classes weaker than others. Since you'll be having so many people doing DPS in a difficult zone like HK with hard DPS checks, it just doesn't make sense not to have them balanced.

    It really doesn't matter if one class can do everything...because you're likely never going to see 20 cleric raids or 20 rogues. Although right now many guilds would be better off running upwards of 15 warriors and be doing the best is irritating.

    The real difficulty in balancing a lot of these callings is making sure hybrids don't become OP. Pure DPS specs should be comparable, hybrids should vary depending on their supportive abilities.

+ Reply to Thread
Page 7 of 21 FirstFirst ... 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 17 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts