A raid leader's plea about Mages and Clerics in 1.5, increase their DPS please.

[Malkieri]

The reason you're seeing those differences is because cleric/mage DPS is very heavily reliant on gear while warrior/rogue DPS basically needs a good weapon to see huge gains and minimal gain from the rest of the gear.

Until everyone get full BiS and then warriors out dps everyone else by 800 or so. Rogues come in second, close to Mages, and Clerics are a fair bit behind them.

[Ekzessive]

i got full t3 gear + crafted gear got hk staff from trash
playing 35/31 pyro 38/28 zoomancer or necrolock 38/28
some warrior who got normal t3 polearm pressing one button and he is makıng same dps wıth me.
it is fair ? and think about when he get relic or hk polearm better than me like %20-%15
we are kıllıng murdantıx ,zıleas ,mını boss and grugonım now (13m hp and enrage tıme 10-11mın)
ın our raıd we dont have more than 3-4 mage --1 chloro-1archon -1 dps(7 dps warrior 2 tank warrior 4-5 rogue dps ..if you thınk mages ıs fıne go take 8 dps mages+1chloro+1archon ın raıd and try grugonım it will be world first for sure..dont make me laugh

you will say cleric healer mages got good support dps and heal..
I dont thınk when trion creating this game .they were thınkıng to make mage support dps only?

Actually I really think that the issue of DPS is really in large part due to this... A warrior/rogue gearing a brand new weapon can see a very healthy increase in their dps right away. A mage or cleric typically will not. The very simple reason for this is that there is a disparity between in weaponization of the classes. A warrior's dps can be largely attributed to what he or she is weilding in their mainhand/offhand. The armor that they were simply raises that "base" amount of dps x percent. Casters in this game are NOT in the same way gauranteed the same dps increase as caster dps is entirely dependant on every single piece that the caster may be wearing.

This is a design oversight that has caught many MANY MMO's unawares and something that I think Rift is currently suffering massively from. Id actually like to see some parses of mage vs warrior vs rogue vs cleric... All using ONLY the same item level weapons.

[aux]

The highest single target mage parses are higher than the highest Rogue parses.

Well they should be, since whetstones are bugged right now and when they're fixed, Rogues will gain somewhere around 10-20% DPS (someone else can do the math, but my point is it's a big deal ).

[Alyvian]

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Actually it's a pve/pvp game. A pve game would have no pvp in it. They have open world pvp, pvp server and battlegrounds for all servers with pvp gear vendors. They nerfed items obtained by people spending hundreds and hundreds of hours to get because pver players that did not want to spend the time go them nerfed. I don't blame you for crying I think the time it took them to get the items much have been nuts I would not want to grind to r8.

Anyway it's all the same game so like other said, find better mages and clerics. They are already very powerfull they just need to learn to play.

nice failing, nowhere did i cry about r8 or the time it took, especially as i aint a pvper. AND a pve game with pvp tacked on as a clear after thought doesnt make it a pve/pvp game. If you are playing this for the pvp you are playing the wrong game/genre.

[Metoz]

You're kidding right, Mages and Clerics do fine in hammerknell at the moment. If they are struggling then they are clearly doing something wrong.

Full consumables on sicaron we had mages peak at around 3.6k and consistently flow around 2.8k ...so overall having around 38k raid dps...it wasnt much of a problem.

and as for zilas...cabalists and stormcallers dominate the meters.....you'd be stupid not to make use of their amazing aoe capabilities in such an encounter. ...and for murdantix? please..this is clearly a melee friendly encounter....and running a mobile friendly build such as "defile" nec/lock....you can easily sustain 2k+ ...breaking enrage timers is a joke on mostly all of these encounters....i dont see the issue here.

[Shhhh]

You're kidding right, Mages and Clerics do fine in hammerknell at the moment. If they are struggling then they are clearly doing something wrong.

Full consumables on sicaron we had mages peak at around 3.6k and consistently flow around 2.8k ...so overall having around 38k raid dps...it wasnt much of a problem.

bull ****.

/10char

[Hokonoso]

Actually I really think that the issue of DPS is really in large part due to this... A warrior/rogue gearing a brand new weapon can see a very healthy increase in their dps right away. A mage or cleric typically will not. The very simple reason for this is that there is a disparity between in weaponization of the classes. A warrior's dps can be largely attributed to what he or she is weilding in their mainhand/offhand. The armor that they were simply raises that "base" amount of dps x percent. Casters in this game are NOT in the same way gauranteed the same dps increase as caster dps is entirely dependant on every single piece that the caster may be wearing.

This is a design oversight that has caught many MANY MMO's unawares and something that I think Rift is currently suffering massively from. Id actually like to see some parses of mage vs warrior vs rogue vs cleric... All using ONLY the same item level weapons.

it's not that simple, warriors yes, not so with rogues, we still need to be at or near the crit cap and if we rock bladedancer we need an equally geared offhand as well. what's sad is, my warrior can parse as high as my full t3 BiS rogue with hk sword and relic offhand and all my warrior has is the t3 polearm from DH and some random t3 drops and t2 plaque gear. ofc that is with the manual RW rotation (which btw id say 1 in 100 or so warriors can do properly, the rest are 200+ dps behind the proper rotation).

highest rogue dps for single target for murdantix is 2300, whoever said 2600 is smoking some crack, 2300 is done with full R8 gear and before the nerfed AP to vengeance, but for aoe, ive yet to see someone beat my 3300 zilas parse, sabodancer aoe is just broken when done properly, can easily sustain 5k if mobs are staying alive long enough. ive seen mages rip **** up, but they only do it for when cooldowns are up then back to mediocrity, just like marksman. mages need higher sustainable non burst single target dps, and clerics need a revamp, you could almost double cleric melee dps and it still will be behind warriors.

p.s. warriors are fine, most can not break 2k on murdantix with best gear as they cannot do a manual rotation, 51champ is easy enough and will consistently do 2k on that fight, other classes would like to do as much as warriors is all :P

[Spyrit]

I agree to this post whole heartedly. I'm a cleric myself so yeah, I guess people could say I'm biased but I'd just like to bring up a case of our guild hitting this wall:

We were trying Sicaron on thursday. We had an "ideal" raid composition: 5 of each class. What happened was that we were floating around the 26k dps mark which is barely enough. Two hours into the raid one of our rogues has to leave due to other commitments and we have nothing but a cleric to replace him with... Suddenly we can't even have real tries on the boss again. At the moment the only reason we're taking more than 2 clerics to HK is solidarity. Our situation is that we have more than enough clerics and mages but are short on rogues and warriors. I'm not asking to be able to faceroll the place with whatever composition. I'm asking to be able to have real tries with having more than 6 mana users.

Edit:
And the real ***** of the bunch is that we've found that the clerics are being utilized best by making them do just/inq and just/sham hybrids... Well guess what... they're getting shafted BAD come 1.5 if things go as planned.

45 Inq/11/10 sent. Still working. Uptime on CP is very high. If they do intend to make CP 10 seconds in duration, it'll be a permanant passive buff from 45 points in at least.

[Spyrit]

5 minutes edit * I am cuirous as to how shamicar held up, they have been very silent thus far.

[timc0907]

Something that would go a long ways in correcting the disparity between warriors/rogues and clerics/mages is making Living energy provide a dps boost somehow. If you take away energy reduction a lot of energy users raid builds fall way behind to the point of not being useable as another build such as 51rb or something can maintain it's energy and pull more consistent dps. I don't want them to take away LE/Fervor at all, they're wonderful and noticeable even on my lowbie energy users. However I literally only notice that the buffs dropped off in raid due to bard dying to something when I see the warriors and rogues dip in dps significantly. Energy redux literally plays 0 factor in my clerics raid dps builds, yet it's a requirement for a lot of energy users raid builds and ups their dps by at least 20%. Find a way to get energy redux to do something for mana users and you can close that gap. I just don't have any good ideas of what to do yet..

[Barsh]

Sounds to be like your guild has a composition and member number problem
And to ask people to buff classes based on your guild composition is, well, kind of simple

You mention 4 fights 2 of which mages do more dps then the warriors and rogues (Matron and Zilas)

I do agree with cleric ST but we dont use clerics for dps. We run 5 warriors (1tank) 5 rogues, 6 mages, and 4 clerics (1 tank) sometimes 5 clerics 5 mages depending on who is on

Why do you not ask to make warrior and rogues AoE dps comporable with mages and buff mages ST?

Now I certainly am aware as far as ST rotation goes it is more difficult to be a mage but our 2 dps mages are very comporable ST and kill everyone in AoE

Our one DPS cleric was comporable with rogues dps as well but he is now our 2nd tank

[Shhhh]

U talk about someones raid composition then say ur second tank is a cleric. Irony at its finest.

[Vaine]

U talk about someones raid composition then say ur second tank is a cleric. Irony at its finest.

whats wrong with a cleric off tank?

[Sebb]

it's not that simple, warriors yes, not so with rogues, we still need to be at or near the crit cap and if we rock bladedancer we need an equally geared offhand as well. what's sad is, my warrior can parse as high as my full t3 BiS rogue with hk sword and relic offhand and all my warrior has is the t3 polearm from DH and some random t3 drops and t2 plaque gear. ofc that is with the manual RW rotation (which btw id say 1 in 100 or so warriors can do properly, the rest are 200+ dps behind the proper rotation).

highest rogue dps for single target for murdantix is 2300, whoever said 2600 is smoking some crack, 2300 is done with full R8 gear and before the nerfed AP to vengeance, but for aoe, ive yet to see someone beat my 3300 zilas parse, sabodancer aoe is just broken when done properly, can easily sustain 5k if mobs are staying alive long enough. ive seen mages rip **** up, but they only do it for when cooldowns are up then back to mediocrity, just like marksman. mages need higher sustainable non burst single target dps, and clerics need a revamp, you could almost double cleric melee dps and it still will be behind warriors.

p.s. warriors are fine, most can not break 2k on murdantix with best gear as they cannot do a manual rotation, 51champ is easy enough and will consistently do 2k on that fight, other classes would like to do as much as warriors is all :P

Basically this.... I'm pretty much BIS T3 and I struggle to keep above 2k on murdantix (mainly due to the fact that I'm pure interrupt duty which f's up control rotation).

Rogues QQ about not being same ST dps as warriors, but you don't hear warriors QQ about the fact that rogues blow away in AOE dps with same spec. There are balances to be had. If there was a rogue melee spec that did poor AOE (like most War specs), then I'm fully on board with them doing same ST DPS as warriors.

When comparing specs, you must consider:
1. ST DPS
2. AOE DPS
3. Movement friendliness.

[Phage]

It really comes down to the fact that in any raid you'll have 1~3 tanks, typically warriors. You'll have 1~3 ST healers, mix of healing cleric souls and chloro. You'll have 1~2 support (bard/archon) and 1~3 raid healers (icars/chloros).

EVERYTHING ELSE IS DPS, which is often 12 people.

Assuming you're aiming for a 5 split of each calling, you'll be having 1~4 of each class for DPS. That's definitely going to be problematic if you have some classes weaker than others. Since you'll be having so many people doing DPS in a difficult zone like HK with hard DPS checks, it just doesn't make sense not to have them balanced.

It really doesn't matter if one class can do everything...because you're likely never going to see 20 cleric raids or 20 rogues. Although right now many guilds would be better off running upwards of 15 warriors and be doing the best is irritating.

The real difficulty in balancing a lot of these callings is making sure hybrids don't become OP. Pure DPS specs should be comparable, hybrids should vary depending on their supportive abilities.