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Thread: Really not sure how mages are supposed to spec in 1.4 as it stands

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    Rift Chaser
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    Default Really not sure how mages are supposed to spec in 1.4 as it stands

    I already thought mage got screwed over with the 1.3 pyro changes (Fulminate was scaling too much no question, but otherwise 1.3 pyros were FINE...), but 1.4 goes way too far.

    Dominator is a bit of a 1-trick pony spec. Energy and mana denial are its main weapons, and it was a virtually unplayed spec pre-1.3 because it quite simply sucked with all the CC immunity around.

    1.3 made dominator playable, I certainly would not say overpowered... it is weak 1v1 versus cluey players, 1v1 fairly strong versus ignorant/bad players, and fairly decent as a CC/support class in large engagements with the exception of TI/MB, very low damage and very low defence.

    With the 1.4 patch notes, I don't see how anyone will bear to play Dom again, it will go back to being a useless spec. Transference was a Dominator's only defence versus CC-immune warriors and rogues and it is being nerfed to a worse state than it was in 1.2, when virtually noone played Dom.

    The TI/MB nerf is bad but it doesn't not destroy the spec, whereas Transference does. MB was probably a bit too strong versus a clump of baddies, but TI as well? I don't think so.

    Altogether, I think these Dom changes will kill the spec (again).

    Onto necro/lock, soul purge was again the cornerstone ability for survival as a mage, as the DOTs are very weak with any kind of healing or cleansing around. SP hwoever is being nerfed, despite no real complaints of it being too strong, simply because all PVP healing abilities are being blanket-nerfed, while healing debuff are going to be roughly twice as common as they are now. This is a dumb, heavy-handed, and poorly thought-out change.

    Honestly I just don't know what game you guys (Trion) are playing. Mages are very very easy to kill in any spec as it is (except 32 warlock, which has a couple of great defensive CD every 3 mins...), yet their damage potential is no higher than an equivalently-geared rogue or warrior. All the other mage souls besides certain combinations of chloro, lock, necro, SC, dom are terrible for PVP, either weak damage, no survivability or both.

    Mage PVP = crappy now, much worse again after 1.4. Please do more testing, and take a good long look at the burst/utility of paragon-champ specs, it's kind of ridiculous, and even warriors think so.
    Last edited by Ashenne; 07-14-2011 at 09:36 PM.

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    Just nerf warriors' massive burst and keep the cleric dps buffs from 1.4, do a little tweaking here and there to souls like dom, and we'll all be about balanced.

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    Prophet of Telara Corian's Avatar
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    Make up your mind now. You want mages to be stronger or you want warriors to be weaker?

    You can say both if you want, but then it looks like you're just out to get yours, instead of providing useful feedback for the game.
    This is why we can't have nice things.

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    honestly Wars are fine, you dont beat them as easily as a rogue yeah but there are not some unstoppable force that cannot be dealth with. This is again the problem with most ppl being bad. Or just playing a spec that doesnt fit the situation because "i dont want to be pigeon holed", well eat dirt then. They can nerf MB/TI thats all fine and dandy but do not nerf Tansference. That is honestly the only str8 forward defense dom has in the face of well anything that is posing a dps threat. Barring another mage of course.

    ~ Warrior are fine, they can keep everything i dont care even the healing debuff, I can beat any war anyday, my win ratio might not be 100% but it sure will be 75%.

    ~ but i really feel like if they are going to nerf the only non-reactive defense doms have then yes nerf the living hell out of Wars. They already nerfing our healing, which is just dsfji#Q#$%@%#^%@dumb. but i wont even go into that.

    ~its fine tho yo, again forced to adjust but ill just make every War's life terrible everytime i face them if this nerf makes it to live.
    Last edited by Queezy; 07-14-2011 at 10:04 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Corian View Post
    Make up your mind now. You want mages to be stronger or you want warriors to be weaker?

    You can say both if you want, but then it looks like you're just out to get yours, instead of providing useful feedback for the game.
    It was intended as constructive feedback. Everything is related so it's not a simple fix like "buff X".

    What I can say is:

    - Parachamps burst is too high and not really that far off a 1.2 pyro. They just scale too well with too many damage multipliers/+crit next 3 attacks/off GCD abilities/heal debuffs/CC, all on short CDs. They stand head and shoulders above the rest of the PVP landscape IMO as far as balance issues go. I am mainly only speaking about the upper tiers of gear here though.

    - Dom as a spec will be killed by the 1.4 changes as given. Dom has no defensive CDs, transference/energy denial is it. Nerf all energy denial, you effectively kill the spec because really, it's the specs only real weapon against melee.

    - Pyro was overnerfed. Fulminate was the real culprit, the CB and to lesser extent inferno change just went too far. Revert those changes or fix the survivability penalty of -9% HP from burning bright.

    - Nerfing soul purge healing is unnecessary. Noone complains about it and the self-heal aspect is little more than a buffer as it is. DOTs are already quite weak as it is, even after the buffs in 1.3.

    - Mages need a general survivability tweak upwards. Damage is fine.
    Last edited by Ashenne; 07-14-2011 at 11:35 PM.

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    I disagree. Survivability is fine, damage is what needs to be buffed, and significantly.

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    Ascendant Vaine's Avatar
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    get to rank 6 ... then complain about warriors.

    Again ask any R6 what they think about warriors?

    P.S. If you're not a R6 you're like a level 41 complaining about a level 50.
    Last edited by Vaine; 07-15-2011 at 01:18 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by htoncic View Post
    I disagree. Survivability is fine, damage is what needs to be buffed, and significantly.
    For PVE, no question, mage DPS is 10%+ below parity with warrior/rogue. cleric DPS is getting some love in 1.4, which is also needed.

    For PVP though, I think we just need enough survivability buffs to the archmage and other trees such that escape and evading damage becomes part of the skill factor in playing a mage. eg: a blink/teleport in archmage, hastened withdrawal moved lower in the tree, etc.

    Also the -9% HP penalty in the pyro tree just has to go.

    Elementalist also needs a big buff in PVE and PVP, it sucks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vaine View Post
    get to rank 6 ... then complain about warriors.

    Again ask any R6 what they think about warriors?

    P.S. If you're not a R6 you're like a level 41 complaining about a level 50.
    My r6 friends also say parachamp is broken. One of them is one. GG.


    Also you can't balance PVP around <10% of the population.

    r0 should be balanced against r0
    r6 should be balanced against r6
    a skilful r0 should be able to beat an average r6

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashenne View Post
    My r6 friends also say parachamp is broken. One of them is one. GG.


    Also you can't balance PVP around <10% of the population.

    r0 should be balanced against r0
    r6 should be balanced against r6
    a skilful r0 should be able to beat an average r6
    No. /10char

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    Ascendant Vaine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashenne View Post
    My r6 friends also say parachamp is broken. One of them is one. GG.
    I have a r6 'friend' that says justicar does 3000 dps. Maybe you should get your friend to post instead of speaking for him

    Yes para/champ is OP against r1-r4 ... it's a burst class, like pyro and sabo. In the r6 vs r6 where damage is more normalized ... they are actually one of the last specs you would take because they bring nothing in the form of utility. The reason para/champ is OP is because Trion thinks it's a good idea to put R6 people with R1 ... nothing more nothing less.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashenne View Post
    Also you can't balance PVP around <10% of the population.

    r0 should be balanced against r0
    r6 should be balanced against r6
    a skilful r0 should be able to beat an average r6
    Due to the variance of gear and level you can't balance for all tiers at all times. It's impossible.

    Would you rather the game be balanced for R1vR1 and r6 clerics will then be unkillable to do valor scaling?
    Last edited by Vaine; 07-15-2011 at 02:42 AM.
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    Sword of Telara Krazybojangles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vaine View Post
    I have a r6 'friend' that says justicar does 3000 dps. Maybe you should get your friend to post instead of speaking for him

    Yes para/champ is OP against r1-r4 ... it's a burst class, like pyro and sabo. In the r6 vs r6 where damage is more normalized ... they are actually one of the last specs you would take because they bring nothing in the form of utility. The reason para/champ is OP is because Trion thinks it's a good idea to put R6 people with R1 ... nothing more nothing less.



    Due to the variance of gear and level you can't balance for all tiers at all times. It's impossible.

    Would you rather the game be balanced for R1vR1 and r6 clerics will then be unkillable to do valor scaling?
    980-1027 Valor. Takes a para champ 3-4secs to kill me unless I'm running my fully defensive spec( made because of the ******ation that is para/champ). 1.2 I could tank Pyros all day para/champ NEEDS to be nerfed something fierce.
    "Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are even incapable of forming such opinions."
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krazybojangles View Post
    980-1027 Valor. Takes a para champ 3-4secs to kill me unless I'm running my fully defensive spec( made because of the ******ation that is para/champ). 1.2 I could tank Pyros all day para/champ NEEDS to be nerfed something fierce.
    Cool then you can show us a SS then. I'll be waiting for it.

    By not providing the SS, I'm just gonna assume you're full of ****.
    <The Unnamed> GSB 5/5 ROS 4/4 GP 4/4 DH 4/4 HK 10/11
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  14. #14
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    lol a warrior asks for a ss how their class (para/champ) is OP. Enter any WF, if you look at a dual-wield warrior bulls rush any target, the next thing you see is the target's hp drops down to at least 1/2. What you say is exactly how warriors said about titan strike and rogues said about sab with armor bug or red-ball 1 button win Pyro before nerfed. "NO! We are fine! Take SS or nothing!" Of course, a drunkard never admits him drunk.

  15. #15
    Ascendant Vaine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SlientShadow View Post
    lol a warrior asks for a ss how their class (para/champ) is OP. Enter any WF, if you look at a dual-wield warrior bulls rush any target, the next thing you see is the target's hp drops down to at least 1/2. What you say is exactly how warriors said about titan strike and rogues said about sab with armor bug or red-ball 1 button win Pyro before nerfed. "NO! We are fine! Take SS or nothing!" Of course, a drunkard never admits him drunk.
    Expect that with pyros there were literally scores of 6k fulminate + fireball + inferno SS on known r6 targets. We're still waiting on the same 6k burst SS's on the same r6 targets.

    I said it before I'll say it again ... the real problem is the gear disparity. Matching R6's with R1's is a bad idea because burst classes reign supreme. They target the weakest member and all of a sudden the 10v10 becomes 10v9 shifting the battle.


    Ask R6 clerics, rogues and mages what the think about para/champ? Go on I dare you.


    But good job on that Ad hominem attack without providing anything logical to the discussion.


    P.S. Sorry I don't anecdotal evidence as truth and neither does Trion. Provide a SS or else you're just another whiner.
    Last edited by Vaine; 07-15-2011 at 03:17 AM.
    <The Unnamed> GSB 5/5 ROS 4/4 GP 4/4 DH 4/4 HK 10/11
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