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Thread: Really not sure how mages are supposed to spec in 1.4 as it stands

  1. #16
    Rift Chaser Karsazilla's Avatar
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    Please tell me your joking, as a rank 6 paragon i can kill undergeared players that suck solo. I need someone stripping them of heals to kill most mages and cleric healers. Warfronts are group content, not solo. Stop thinking that these things are going to kill the game for you, a r6 cleric should not need 5 people to kill them.
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  2. #17
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    I've more surviability with my mage than my war, just saying... and I can unleash a heavier burst (even more with the new Lightning Burst ).

    Only bad change about the domi is Transfer (they should have took it back to 5s as before 1.3 and remove mana drain from it ).

  3. #18
    Rift Master nacho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vaine View Post
    Yes para/champ is OP against r1-r4 ... it's a burst class, like pyro and sabo. In the r6 vs r6 where damage is more normalized ... they are actually one of the last specs you would take because they bring nothing in the form of utility.
    What are the 30s CD AoE fear and the AoE un-curable healing debuff if not supreme utility?

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkhain View Post
    I've more surviability with my mage than my war, just saying... and I can unleash a heavier burst (even more with the new Lightning Burst ).
    yeah, you get tons of survivability by going 44 in sc...

    a full glass cannon warrior has more survivability than a full glass cannon mage and more burst
    a full survivability warrior has more survivability than a full survivability mage and more burst.
    you cant compare a full survivability mage against a full glass cannon warrior, tell that it has more survivability, and forget that you remove all burst to get that, then compare a full glass cannon mage against a full survivability warrior, tell that it has more burst and forget that you lose all your survivability to get that
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  5. #20
    Ascendant Vaine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nacho View Post
    What are the 30s CD AoE fear and the AoE un-curable healing debuff if not supreme utility?
    I'm taking you don't do r6 v r6s's so I'll explain.

    AOE fear is nice but telegraphed a mile away. AOE healing debuff is nice, but r6 clerics and support heal it up with ease.

    Better support specs are vk/rb, vk/ch and the pvp tank. AOE silence is ridiculously good and so is reducing the opponents damage by 60% ... I'm not kidding when I say no one dies when two r6's with pvp tanks meet in the battlefield. Matches can last a while and this is where th DOM truly shines with energy and mana drains same with VK mana drains.

    If either r6 brought the standard 2 paragons pug stomping crap, then they would just be fodder for the team with the pvp tank. Para/champ is nice for pug stomping ... anything else requires more thought.

    That was my point ... but thanks for theorycrafting.
    Last edited by Vaine; 07-15-2011 at 04:29 AM.
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  6. #21
    Rift Master nacho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vaine View Post
    I'm taking you don't do r6 v r6s's so I'll explain.

    AOE fear is nice but telegraphed a mile away. AOE healing debuff is nice, but r6 clerics and support heal it up with ease.

    Better support specs are vk/rb, vk/ch and the pvp tank. AOE silence is ridiculously good and so is reducing the opponents damage by 60% ... I'm not kidding when I say no one dies when two r6's with pvp tanks meet in the battlefield. Matches can last a while and this is where th DOM truly shines with energy and mana drains same with VK mana drains.

    If either r6 brought the standard 2 paragons pug stomping crap, then they would just be fodder for the team with the pvp tank. Para/champ is nice for pug stomping ... anything else requires more thought.

    That was my point ... but that's for theorycrafting.
    Ah, interesting. Thanks for explaining.
    There's no way I'm grinding to R6 just to repeat the process with 1.4. Ugh... Damn you, Trion.
    Last edited by nacho; 07-15-2011 at 04:30 AM.

  7. #22
    Ascendant Vaine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruizo View Post
    a full glass cannon warrior has more survivability than a full glass cannon mage and more burst

    your survivability comes in the form of range and the staying within the pact

    When I had 0 valor on my cleric I would still hardly die because positioning is the best defense. For group pvp Ranged > Plate.
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  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vaine View Post
    Yes para/champ is OP against r1-r4 ...
    It's OP period. I'm sitting on 650 valour, 6.5K HP and I am reduced 100%->0 inside of 5 secs. Due to crappy game design, enemies are often CC immune, which leaves energy denial (Dom) as a mage's only recourse, and yet that is being nerfed. It's crazy.

    it's a burst class, like pyro and sabo.
    pyro is no longer a burst class. There is Heat Wave every 2 minutes, which requires no movement, and that is all.

    they are actually one of the last specs you would take because they bring nothing in the form of utility.
    I don't know if you're unfamiliar with other class' mechanics or just flat-out lying, but parachamp has as much or more CC/utility than almost any other PVP spec, while still having the highest burst in the current game.

    Let's see, a 44paragon/20-22 champ has:
    * uncleanseable & spammable 50% heal debuff on all crits (effectively a AE heal debuff with no CD)
    * 30sec CD instant uncleanseable AE fear + ST root at 11 champ. 44 lock (45sec CD) or 26 inq (60sec CD) have AE fears, but they are cleanseable and don't come with a root.
    * off-GCD interrupt on 8sec CD
    * spammable snare
    * knockback (15sec CD)
    * charge + root (15sec CD )
    * 1min instant armour debuff (15sec CD)
    ^^^ of all that utility comes from JUST 20 champ

    * 5sec disarm (30sec CD)
    * 15sec (8sec) instant incapacitate (30sec CD)
    * knockback immunity
    * 15-21secs of +50% movement speed every 60sec
    * 10secs of +75% parry/+50% dmg every 60sec
    * 80% (!!) strength/dex debuff for 8secs every 60sec
    ^^^ on top of all that from 44 paragon.

    Feel free to explain how this in any way is "no utility". It's insane utility. As much as a 51 Dom but with 5x the burst, PLUS great AE damage, burst on demand, sustained high DPS... it has it all.

    The reason para/champ is OP is because Trion thinks it's a good idea to put R6 people with R1 ... nothing more nothing less.
    Yes there is a gear-to-power disparity issue, but parachamp is clearly OP regardless.

    Due to the variance of gear and level you can't balance for all tiers at all times. It's impossible.
    Yes you can. Lessen gear scaling for one thing, and/or up base valour.

    Stop backpedalling though, parachamp is OP and you know it.
    Last edited by Ashenne; 07-15-2011 at 06:49 AM.

  9. #24
    Plane Walker crono14's Avatar
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    Damn warriors, hijacking every thread
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  10. #25
    Ascendant Vaine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashenne View Post
    ...anecdotal and theorycrafting stuff that means nothing.
    Play in some R6 vs R6 then come back. .... thank you. Until then you're the level 45 complaining that the level 50 is OP. Of course they are OP you're a whole tier lower than them in gear :/. No one ever complains about the 4 other R1-R3 warriors :/

    P.S. I've made a post about R6 v R6 and why para/champ is the last spec you want for it. It's a pug stomping spec ... no more no less.
    Last edited by Vaine; 07-15-2011 at 07:01 AM.
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  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by crono14 View Post
    Damn warriors, hijacking every thread
    Warrior charges thread hits for 1500 (350 230), reaction time, click on warrior, crit 1000 , use CC breaker, warrior hits for 800 (200, 300) transferrance (200, 250), start moving away, warrior uses ranged moved as he had some power left and 3 attack points, 900 damage. Would you like to respawn or soulwalk the thread?

    That's going to be the case *until* P6.

    Now obviously you need to reign in OTT scaling, but at the same time if a class is utterly unbalanced except at the very peak, it's still unbalanced. Being a bit out of whack, or being broken on people with no valor is acceptable par for the course, it's not hard to get a couple of hundred valor (maybe even 300) and a little more endurance. Most players however will have to tolerate weeks or months of grinding to do this. A PvP game based around being killed by better geared players constantly until you're one is a bit naff, and I do feel the skill coefficient while strong is outweighed by the gear coefficient. Trion's attempt to add base valor seemed crap but after having ground through a couple of prestige levels I can see what it was an attempt to achieve.

  12. #27
    Ascendant Vaine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devicus View Post
    Warrior charges thread hits for 1500 (350 230), reaction time, click on warrior, crit 1000 , use CC breaker, warrior hits for 800 (200, 300) transferrance (200, 250), start moving away, warrior uses ranged moved as he had some power left and 3 attack points, 900 damage. Would you like to respawn or soulwalk the thread?
    .
    All your battle with warriors begin at < 20m ... not wonder they're OP.

    If you're complaining how you didn't see the warrior prior to them being 20m ... it's because they secretly gave us stealth but we didn't tell anyone about it.

    Also thread the trees does not hit nor crit for 1500 ... but hyperbole is always nice ... it tells the story better.
    Last edited by Vaine; 07-15-2011 at 07:15 AM.
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  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vaine View Post
    All your battle with warriors begin at < 20m ... not wonder they're OP.
    They can also run 50% faster than base runspeed for 21secs every minute, and charge 20m every 15 sec.

    You're like a drunk on a park bench saying that alcohol is not a problem.

    You have zero credibility.

    Re-pasting parachamp CC/utility that you described as "zero utility" for lolz:

    44paragon/20-22 champ has:
    * uncleanseable & spammable 50% heal debuff on all crits (effectively a AE heal debuff with no CD)
    * 30sec CD instant uncleanseable AE fear + ST root at 11 champ. 44 lock (45sec CD) or 26 inq (60sec CD) have AE fears, but they are cleanseable and don't come with a root.
    * off-GCD interrupt on 8sec CD
    * spammable snare
    * knockback (15sec CD)
    * charge + root (15sec CD )
    * 1min instant armour debuff (15sec CD)
    ^^^ of all that utility comes from JUST 20 champ

    * 5sec disarm (30sec CD)
    * 15sec (8sec) instant incapacitate (30sec CD)
    * knockback immunity
    * 15-21secs of +50% movement speed every 60sec
    * 10secs of +75% parry/+50% dmg every 60sec
    * 80% (!!) strength/dex debuff for 8secs every 60sec
    ^^^ on top of all that from 44 paragon.

  14. #29
    Plane Walker Verez's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vaine View Post
    Play in some R6 vs R6 then come back. .... thank you. Until then you're the level 45 complaining that the level 50 is OP. Of course they are OP you're a whole tier lower than them in gear :/. No one ever complains about the 4 other R1-R3 warriors :/

    P.S. I've made a post about R6 v R6 and why para/champ is the last spec you want for it. It's a pug stomping spec ... no more no less.
    Come back when you learn to play.

    Oh snout, see what I did there? Telling everyone to shut up, when even people who play the spec say it's OP.
    Last edited by Verez; 07-15-2011 at 07:36 AM.

  15. #30
    Rift Chaser Shinigam1's Avatar
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    ly not sure how mages are supposed to spec in 1.4 as it stands
    So you're saying trion has succeeded at balancing? You aren't suppose to be any particular spec. It's suppose to be your choice.

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