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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: Cleric 1.4 Discussion

  1. #391
    Plane Walker Festo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tuskon View Post
    This made me laugh. I think most (if not all) forum going Clerics will find this laughable as well.
    Funny as in clerics have a lead and rogues don't?
    Let's just thank Christ that they got rid of twinking. It truly lacked any skill to twink.

  2. #392
    Rift Master Spyrit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slpnshot View Post
    Eh, the unique tanking mechanic was one of the reason I wanted to Justicar tank. Never had to balance threat around heals before in any game(that comes to mind). However the mechanic is definitely limited if you consider that the more we gear, the worse we become at our job(or if your healer gears).

    I have to wonder how powerful our heal threat will become come 1.4 considering that DoL is becoming a smart heal on top of the MoL modifier. I was honestly hoping for some new mechanic that might leech threat from a target, but oh well. I'm just happy they're looking at our tank at all.
    Paladin tank, ffxi, kept threat by healing themselves, as well as provoke and flash.

  3. #393
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    Yeah, I have to say I'm not to thrilled with all the proposed PVP heal nerfs. I never played WoW for more than a week or so (could never get used to the cartoon characters), but I played DAoC for several years, and the class I enjoyed and played the most was a healer, and I mainly played PVP, much preferring playing against real people rather than NPC's. So no surprise that I'd be attracted to playing a Cleric in RIFT, to try to recapture a little of those good times I had back in the day with DAoC. Now, at only level 30, I find that the one and only class I really wanted to play is apparently going to get nerfed to the point where it really doesn't even count for much as a healer any more, at least not when it comes to doing the one thing I enjoy most in the game, PVP. Sounds like when it comes to PVP it'll essentially be some kind of hybrid class that has some secondary healing abilities. There won't be any true straight-out healing class for PVP, and generally most players will more often than not just die very quickly - especially clerics. If I'm healing for significantly less in Warfronts, well, judging by how quickly I burn though mana now, there just wouldn't be much sense in bothering, unless that's all intend to try doing: spamming heal spells and gulping mana consumables as quickly as I can. Somehow, though, I don't think even that would be enough....

  4. #394
    Shadowlander cRuEllY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zinbik View Post
    Hey guys, one more last minute Cleric note for 1.4 that will go up to PTS sometime in the near future:
    • Mien of Leadership - Increased the bonus to threat to 450%.
    Also, I just wanted to add that we are still looking at the Cleric Synergy Crystals. We'll be hotfixing any changes we need to make to the LIVE servers as necessary.
    I love that your're looking into cleric tanking but just increasing the bonus threat to 450% isn't going to help us. Right now I sometimes get aggro by using DoL on for example "Herold Gaurath" as #3 tank and the #2 tank mostly stands no chance in getting it back or just by using ae-taunt and also aggroing my mobs.

    Wouldn't it be better if our dmg abilitys would scale better with spelldmg or we would get a new, doctrine comsuming ability that would transfer aggro from another player or something like that.

    Thanks for listening.
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  5. #395
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    Quote Originally Posted by cRuEllY View Post
    I love that your're looking into cleric tanking but just increasing the bonus threat to 450% isn't going to help us. Right now I sometimes get aggro by using DoL on for example "Herold Gaurath" as #3 tank and the #2 tank mostly stands no chance in getting it back or just by using ae-taunt and also aggroing my mobs.

    Wouldn't it be better if our dmg abilitys would scale better with spelldmg or we would get a new, doctrine comsuming ability that would transfer aggro from another player or something like that.

    Thanks for listening.
    I would much rather have Righteous Mandate transfer a percentage of the threat from the mandate target (probably your healer) to you.

  6. #396
    Plane Touched Tomaj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zinbik View Post
    Hey guys, one more last minute Cleric note for 1.4 that will go up to PTS sometime in the near future:
    • Mien of Leadership - Increased the bonus to threat to 450%.
    Also, I just wanted to add that we are still looking at the Cleric Synergy Crystals. We'll be hotfixing any changes we need to make to the LIVE servers as necessary.
    While the Mien of Leadership change will be a good start, it doesn't fix many of the issues with cleric tanking. Even just starting out and not being very good at cleric tanking, the biggest problem is that clerics have little snap threat in comparison to rogues or warriors. Rebuke is good, but is on an extremely long cooldown, and comes with its own risks in a multiple-tank scenario. Add in that there's a minimum range to use it, and it makes it really awkward trying to frantically tab-target or click-target a mob that's running away to use it, when the other taunts are on cooldown. Moreover, the inability to deal with ranged mobs easily hurts cleric tanks (lack of ranged silence/pull mechanics on short cooldowns). Rogues have to deal with this somewhat as well, but due to their various utilities, it's overall easier for rogues to manage ranged mobs than it is for clerics.

  7. #397
    Shadowlander cRuEllY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sooth View Post
    I would much rather have Righteous Mandate transfer a percentage of the threat from the mandate target (probably your healer) to you.
    Yeah that would be n1 too BUT you can only maintain ONE Righteous Mandate on a single target. Being the one casting it or the one it was cast on.
    That said no justicar heal could use his Righteous Mandate on the tanking cleric...
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  8. #398
    Ascendant BishopX's Avatar
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    I would rather more damage to help with the threat than more threat... the reason is because you "can" also heal via your damage as a justicar. and melee healing should be at least a LITTLE bit viable.. right? cuz right now my justicar dosent go over 300 dps tanking or 2handed.
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  9. #399
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zinbik View Post
    Also, I just wanted to add that we are still looking at the Cleric Synergy Crystals. We'll be hotfixing any changes we need to make to the LIVE servers as necessary.
    How much more looking is needed? These things have been universally panned by every cleric out there, they should not be on live.

  10. #400
    RIFT Guide Writer Redcruxs's Avatar
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    what are you guys? the worst cleric tanks in existence?

    our survivability was already increased to proper levels in the last patch now our threat is being brought up to par and you still say its not enough?

    L2clerictank noobs

  11. #401
    Rift Chaser Bobopedic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redcruxs View Post
    what are you guys? the worst cleric tanks in existence?

    our survivability was already increased to proper levels in the last patch now our threat is being brought up to par and you still say its not enough?

    L2clerictank noobs
    oh hey, somebody doesn't know what magic damage is
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  12. #402
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redcruxs View Post
    what are you guys? the worst cleric tanks in existence?

    our survivability was already increased to proper levels in the last patch now our threat is being brought up to par and you still say its not enough?

    L2clerictank noobs
    I'm not sure how much sense your comment makes, seeing as how they're just going to nerf our survivability back down for PVP....

  13. #403
    RIFT Guide Writer Redcruxs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobopedic View Post
    oh hey, somebody doesn't know what magic damage is

    look, im not trying to say that we have the best magic mitigation but we are far far from useless, which is how everyone likes to make us out to be

    if you get pwned by magic bosses then either your spec is wrong or your gear is wrong


    Quote Originally Posted by imno007 View Post
    I'm not sure how much sense your comment makes, seeing as how they're just going to nerf our survivability back down for PVP....
    oh my mistake i forgot that pvp is the only thing anyone ever talks about on the forums. also who tanks in pvp?
    Last edited by Redcruxs; 07-30-2011 at 01:44 PM.

  14. #404
    Champion of Telara Elric-merren's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redcruxs View Post
    what are you guys? the worst cleric tanks in existence?

    our survivability was already increased to proper levels in the last patch now our threat is being brought up to par and you still say its not enough?

    L2clerictank noobs
    Wow would you like a new cap since your ego seems to have busted your old hat. Just because someone asks to have things adjusted or changed slightly or improved does not imply that they are a bad player. Alot of them actually would like to improve the feel or playstyle of tier characetr that they like so much to have spent time to come up with a change or improvement idea. So how about you keep your opinions of what kind of player or skills others have to yourself, mostly since they only matter to you if the other people are smart to just relise anyone they do not know well is not worth making thier opinion matter at all.

    I always liked the idea of a threat syphon that would transfer threat from the target of the justicar's rightous mandate back to him whne he is in the tanking mein, and then transfers threat to the person with rightous mandate on them while in the healing mien. THis could be activated by conviction at 15-20% per point of conviction used. This could also have a passive version that is always active but at a weaker level as stated above.

    Now for censure which honestly has afew nice things it could be used for instead of a damage buff that is consumed easily in most situations. One idea is that it grants us a threat buff for a short while after being used (though this is worthless now wiht the increase but if they wanted to reduce the threat bonus on our mien back but give us a way to generate more this would work.). THen is the idea of a melee range single target interrupt, though the cd on this strike would need to be increased to fit in better with the other interrupts (censure means a rebuke or show of disapproval).

    I always like the idea of a magic absorbing shield effect which is linked to our conviction system, as well as only protects against magic damage. THis ability could be only usable at 4 convictions so that it is not always available, but also could also deactivate our ability to generate conviction for a short period of time to act as a version of a cd kinda. My only issue with this idea is that it could make us more desired as a magic damage tank compared to rogues which is not right, and so it would need to be watched and tweeked alot.

  15. #405
    Rift Chaser Bobopedic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redcruxs View Post
    look, im not trying to say that we have the best magic mitigation but we are far far from useless, which is how everyone likes to make us out to be

    if you get pwned by magic bosses then either your spec is wrong or your gear is wrong

    oh my mistake i forgot that pvp is the only thing anyone ever talks about on the forums. also who tanks in pvp?
    "spec is wrong"?
    The only thing we get that isn't in every justicar spec is the option to get 40 resists from cabalist. And it doesn't even apply to death or life (the two most common pre-HK, and death is still ubiquitous) 40 Resist doesn't make up for the extra 50% magic damage we take compared to rogues or warriors. I don't understand your logic.

    "Gear is wrong?"
    The only piece of gear that could actually affect this is our planar focus, and in very few cases our trinket (death & water, from world events). Even with a full planar essence of resists, guess what? Warriors can and do make the same focus machine. And it just makes their mitigation even greater. Justicars NEED a planar focus dedicated to each resist if they plan on tanking end game content. Warriors/rogues don't have to worry about that. Can you imagine a guild starting out in RoS or GSB with a cleric MT? they'd have to farm so many life and death raid rifts solely for that guy. Plus, a full source machine again does not make up for 50% difference. My water resist machine (+130) reduces my damage taken by ~18%. All of the warrior tanks in my guild have the same machine that I do, plus a ton of passive magic mitigation than I do. Who do you think should tank magic bosses?

    I don't know how I can make it any clearer: magic mitigation is a pretty huge problem
    Last edited by Bobopedic; 07-30-2011 at 06:27 PM.
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