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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: Cleric 1.4 Discussion

  1. #316
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    Auchter you are clearly trolling. Uh186 responded already with the reason that no single dps should be able to kill a healer and you purposely avoided the response. If you can't win, make a tactical retreat. Water jet isn't exactly the highest parsing ability in the game :P In any case we don't know how much they are reducing heals, so it's a bit premature to claim the sky is falling. Hopping around with warden was probably a bit much, and certainly stronger than any of the other healing options. So maybe this will make other healing specs viable.

    The only thing I am concerned with about this change is how it will affect players doing raid rifts on a pvp server. Having reduced heals might make for unintentionally difficult rifts.

    On the upside I'm looking forward to the possibility of having a viable ranged damage spec. woo.
    Last edited by CdrRogdan; 07-22-2011 at 01:27 PM.

  2. #317
    Shield of Telara
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    why are all these whining idiots who suck at their dps role in here crying about clerics, this is for cleric discussion not your pvp whining, ****

  3. #318
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vayra View Post
    And that's the way it should be. A healer should be able to completely negate 1 DPS at minimum.
    Thats not negating, thats beating with no chance for the dps to win. healing >>>>>dps, particularly when combined with the massive defense levels available.

  4. #319
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auchter View Post
    Thats not negating, thats beating with no chance for the dps to win. healing >>>>>dps, particularly when combined with the massive defense levels available.
    1v1 balance is irrelevant.

    Tell me the use of a healer if he cannot keep anyone alive vs 1 dps?
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  5. #320
    Plane Touched Timukas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auchter View Post
    They can - it might take a looong time but they can. But then no cleric has 0 dps - they might have pitiful dps if they specc'd into healing as much as they can but it isn't 0.

    So even if they just autoattack, or waterjet spam, or whatever they'll remain on 100% whilst the dps is whittled down.
    Been reading some Auchter's posts and all I can say that he is a troll. Only thing I can suggest after healing nerf is stop healing anyone but your mates. In pugs I will only self heal. Rogues can use healing pots.

  6. #321
    Shield of Telara kidbs's Avatar
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    Just report Auchter. He clutters up every thread with nothing but whines and nonsense. Leave the game already if you think it's so broken.
    Bokor - Cleric (Warrior Priest)

  7. #322
    Plane Touched Ixpha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vayra View Post
    1v1 balance is irrelevant.

    Tell me the use of a healer if he cannot keep anyone alive vs 1 dps?
    QFT 10 chars..

  8. #323
    Sword of Telara Gradient's Avatar
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    I need to see the changes in practise. My initial thoughts for raiding are, the dps changes don't really seem to address the central problem with raid cleric dps.

    1) Any clerics with a more interesting playstyle and rotation/situational skill useage have subpar dps in anything but heavy aoe situations.
    2) Heavy situations don't occur on raid bosses with the slight exception of alsbeth and herald and even then focused damage is as or more useful.
    3) Any clerics that perform midrange dps in most raid situations are incredibly boring to play and require 1 button.
    4) The only dps cleric that isn't boring to play is the one allowed to have subpar dps, in order to still have clinging spirit in order to boost the rest of raid's dps.

    Looking at the inquisitor changes for example, to make them competitive for dps and useful the Bolt of Judgment changes would have to be so extreme a boost that the entire inquisitor rotation would probably have to consist of just BoJ and nothing else - meaning inquisitors are either still subpar or just another 1 button build, but ranged.

    Cabalist I'd have to play to evaluate, but the changes seem in danger of ruining it's aoe warfront possibilities, which was the only thing going for that soul, without actually providing a new niche that it can do effectively.

    Deep druid versus deep shaman, yawn, so 1 or other will the new best 1 button build.

    Guild/Raid leader of Shoreline 5/8 ID (No reflect Rusila, hardmode Conclave) Recruiting a few more excellent raiders: for Infernal Dawn progression

  9. #324
    Sword of Telara Gradient's Avatar
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    The other current major oversight with cleric dps as I see it is, because ranged dps is subpar, it's only really justifiable for 1 cleric to run it because of the unique aoe magic damage increased by 7% debuff property of clinging spirit talented soul drain. Soul drain is point blank 7m. So the only ranged cleric dps in raid, is in fact always in melee range anyway.

    Priorities for cleric dps changes should be:
    Make melee clerics more interesting to play and competitive in the foodchain of dps.
    Do not require cleric dps to change role to be useful at aoe dps versus single-target dps, unless this dynamic is extended to ALL dps classes, which is currently FAR from the case.
    Make ranged clerics viable, both by massive dps boost to ranged to get them on par, and by making them actually be ranged by making souldrain a ranged ground targeted aoe.

    Guild/Raid leader of Shoreline 5/8 ID (No reflect Rusila, hardmode Conclave) Recruiting a few more excellent raiders: for Infernal Dawn progression

  10. #325
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gradient View Post
    The other current major oversight with cleric dps as I see it is, because ranged dps is subpar, it's only really justifiable for 1 cleric to run it because of the unique aoe magic damage increased by 7% debuff property of clinging spirit talented soul drain. Soul drain is point blank 7m. So the only ranged cleric dps in raid, is in fact always in melee range anyway.

    Priorities for cleric dps changes should be:
    Make melee clerics more interesting to play and competitive in the foodchain of dps.
    Do not require cleric dps to change role to be useful at aoe dps versus single-target dps, unless this dynamic is extended to ALL dps classes, which is currently FAR from the case.
    Make ranged clerics viable, both by massive dps boost to ranged to get them on par, and by making them actually be ranged by making souldrain a ranged ground targeted aoe.

    Ranged DPS is on par with other ranged dps, especially after 1.4
    SD being having a ranged aspect would be nice, but its not the only ability that requires an inqui (or even a cabby for that matter) to be at a certain distance. So i assume its like that just in case an enemy comes too close. Whether thats good or bad is up for debates.

    Making SD a ranged ground attack is asking for a nerf. I think that its current power (even without the cabby death bonus) is way too strong for it to be Instant(like) and for it to not have cast time. I beg you, do not draw attention to SD.

    None of the other melee classes are interesting to play quite honestly. There is no real way of making it interesting other than making it a ranged class.

    And personally, i run ranged dps because i dont care to be in melee ranged for most battles and really only switch to melee for timed battles. So, no one HAS to switch back and forth if they do not want to.
    And all classes can switch back and forth ffor different situations (as iw ould switch between caby or inq from melee if the particular pull is going to be add heavy, or i need to attack far away distances for some reason and running is a waste of time).

    The 5 roles are there for a reason, no need to trivialize it further.
    Last edited by Eughe; 07-23-2011 at 08:30 AM.

  11. #326
    RIFT Guide Writer rantology's Avatar
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    Sadly most classes are very macro heavy and most builds for them only require 1-3 buttons. Certainly nothing like the complexity/fun of the rotations you get in say WoW PvE. Though even WoW always has some 1-2 button specs.

    As for ranged DPS, I doubt Trion is going to do anything about it. Hell, look at mages. Ranged has never been in the same ballpark as melee, regardless of the class.

    The two issues you're describing are symptoms of the overall game and more or less uniformly affect all classes, not just clerics.
    Last edited by rantology; 07-23-2011 at 09:05 AM.
    afk tera.

  12. #327
    Sword of Telara Krazybojangles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auchter View Post
    They can - it might take a looong time but they can. But then no cleric has 0 dps - they might have pitiful dps if they specc'd into healing as much as they can but it isn't 0.

    So even if they just autoattack, or waterjet spam, or whatever they'll remain on 100% whilst the dps is whittled down.
    So walk away?
    "Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are even incapable of forming such opinions."
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  13. #328
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krazybojangles View Post
    So walk away?
    Classic cleric logic.....

    Its OK for you to be unkillable (and ofc keep 4-5 other people up). Such is the problem with long term overpowered classes - they can't see why this is a problem.

    This patch really feels like trion has no real grasp of where its going.

  14. #329
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    Once again you are wrong. When a tank specs into full tank mode, they can easily tank 4 people. However doing so means they sacrifice the ability to kill anything. The same is true of clerics that spec into full defensive healing. They maybe considered as PvP tank as these specs sacrifice all damage in exchange for survivability.

    To be able to take down such a spec, you need to adjust your spec to compensate. This can and is achievable and is being done everyday.

    Once again, Please go to your class forums and read the cleric killer specs.

  15. #330
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auchter View Post
    Classic cleric logic.....

    Its OK for you to be unkillable (and ofc keep 4-5 other people up). Such is the problem with long term overpowered classes - they can't see why this is a problem.

    This patch really feels like trion has no real grasp of where its going.
    Except that crap you constantly whine about isnt even remotely close to reality.
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