All I see is a bunch of Q.Q. Even with the current drops, I farmed enough sourcestones for 6 shiny lesser essences for my healing sigil. Do you hear me complaining?
Oh, and if it's not worth it for you, skip the 50 valor instead of threatening to quit the game. Seriously, people threaten to quit if their armor doesn't fit "just" right nowadays.
Last edited by Era; 06-18-2011 at 06:15 PM.
Era - Defiant - Byriel
Former Owner of RiftLift
Has nothing to do with the gear disadvantage. This is about how trion treats the things you have achieved so far. If this is the direction trion wants to lead the game this clearly is nothing for me. Being joshed every single patch for the effort you put into optimizing your gear by just implementing minor upgrades which can only accomplished by farming high amounts of the same things again that you already own is the most stupid version of itemloop i've seen in more than 15 years of MMO gameplay in a dozen of different games.Originally Posted by Era
This is sort of occupational therapy for mentally handicapped people at it's finest.
Gonna need water/death lessers in the "new" sigil anyways so its no biggy getting new ones, right now I'm guessing alot of folk use life ones anyways for GS.
You're comparing apples to oranges, in my opinion. Focus' are not "gear" in the sense that gloves and chest pieces are. What focus' are is an item that gives you more "gear" slots. You can chose to have multiple of these "extra gear slots" to customize your character, just like you can have multiple pieces of armor to customize your dps build from your Healing build.
Would it be nice to be able to take your essences out of one focus and into another? Sure, but then why even have more than one focus if all you have to do is pay some money to clear your focus and put in the essences for another build. And of course keeping the essences you took out. Well, it would probably end up costing a lot of money, just like only being able to have one soul combination at a time, and having to respec every time you want to heal instead of dps.
As a player, you have access to all content currently on the live servers. Saying you're from a guild that only PvPs is disallowing you to farm the essences again is rubbish. You can still farm the essences you need for your new focus, and there is nothing that is preventing you, save yourself. However you got the same essences from your current focus should be the same way you upgrade your new one.
As for the PvP focus, Trion is probably expecting players to upgrade that focus with essences that are itemized for PvP, whether you think they're itemized correctly or not. If that's the case, the only essences you'll need are the greater essences, and there are plenty you can get from the AH until you've farmed enough for the ones you really want.
In conclusion, yes, it would be nice if Trion would give us the ability to upgrade our Focus without having to refarm everything we had before, however, it's another time sink and doesn't allow current content to become obsolete, so I'd rather refarm everything instead of just getting an upgrade.
Also, when you said, "This is about how trion treats the things you have achieved so far," you do realize that going from rank 1 to rank 6, you've achieved gear from the lower ranks that is going to get replaced, same with PvE when going from T1 to T2 to T3, and onwards. We'll always be looking for bigger and better gear, so I'm not sure what point you're trying to make with this.Has nothing to do with the gear disadvantage. This is about how trion treats the things you have achieved so far. If this is the direction trion wants to lead the game this clearly is nothing for me. Being joshed every single patch for the effort you put into optimizing your gear by just implementing minor upgrades which can only accomplished by farming high amounts of the same things again that you already own is the most stupid version of itemloop i've seen in more than 15 years of MMO gameplay in a dozen of different games.
This is sort of occupational therapy for mentally handicapped people at it's finest.
Last edited by Sarathor; 06-19-2011 at 03:13 PM.
Sarathor@Byriel Rank 7 Defiant Mage - retired
Bonqueequee@Byriel Rank 1 Guardian Rogue
And that's exactly what it is. I currently have 3 sigils full of the rewards already (being a cleric), I clearly have enough time on my hands to farm. It's not going to hurt me in the slightest, I'm in a raiding guild that does the raid rift quest daily every day. The people it hurts are the ones who are in-between, the more casual and smaller raid guilds who actually struggle with raid rifts. For the hardcore it's just a time sink that they'll either do and mock those who don't or they'll quit and go to another game that rewards time better. Either way it's yet another nerf to the progression of the majority.
4/4/5/5 +4
The difference is that i can change my gear slot by slot. There is no dudes that tells me "hey, you got rank 1/2 gear. To improve your gloves to rank 3 you on the one hand need x k favor but on the other hand, you can just switch complete sets. Meaning you have to farm all that Rank 1/2 gear again + the rank 3 gloves to have those items combined to a new set that you can finally switch to for your gloves upgrade. THIS would be the same. And yes this makes a huge difference.
The thing with pvp essences is something i am ok with. But the essences they put in are unique equip yet. So there are 3 of them (of wihch one is for lower reputation and as that, it is by far less powerfull). So even if focussing on them there are 3 empty slots to be filled up with pve essences again. Why the heck am i supposed to do pve for pve essences even though there are already pvp essences out there just because of an unique restrictions?
I don't think you will understand this. If you don't care about farming your sigil(s) again which you may calculate time-spend-wise to see how ridicolous this is, you won't ever get the point made here.
Doing all the rifts again is not progression, it is repetition. You are afraid of old content becoming obsolete? Old content has to become obsolete because old content has been done frequently every day so it gets boring. This is why new content is handed in. If this was not the case, the dev team could have an easy job by just updating loot tables instead of providing new raids. Just forcing people to grind an outdated or so to say already frequently mastered content is just stultifying. If new sigils are implemented the better way would be to throw in slightly better essences as well that may at least seem to be worth farming instead of refarming all that old stuff again. This would be a progression, what they plan by now is repetition with the new sigil as a minor inducement. In case of pve i would just deny farming the essences again for 20 water resist. In case of pvp, sadly, 50 valor is just too much of a difference.
Last edited by Kido1983; 06-19-2011 at 06:50 PM.
No, I do understand what you're saying. You don't want to farm essences for your new focus, and you're laziness is the result of this thread. Like I said, I see no reason why getting a new focus means you'll automatically get it upgraded without having to grind out the essences again, other than laziness of course.
No one is forcing you to do the old content again, just saying. What's great about this game is that for progression, you have to start out with normal dungeons, then go into DT1, then DT2, then RT1, then RT2. You upgrade your gear so you can jump into the next content, instead of like World of Warcraft where they just give you gear so you can do the next tier of content. In this game, you have to work to get your gear.
I feel the same way about upgrading your focus. If I really wanted that extra 50 valor, or that most-probably useful 20 water resistance, then I'll go out and farm the materials again. I'll start by saving up early (the ancient sourcestones from invasions) to buy the blue quality essences, and then continue to farm raid dailies, which you can get 1 every 3-4 days mind you, to complete my new focus. Sure, as a mage, I'd have to do the Death Raid Rift as much as possible for a chance to get the greater essence I want, and it might take weeks to get it, but I'd also be helping out 19 other people who probably need some things as well.
For me, I need 5 lessers and 1 greater. The greater from the death rift is RNG based, so I won't add it in, but let's say you get 6 sourcestones (like on the PTR) and the epic lessers cost 20 sourcestones. For all 5 lessers I would need to have 100 sourcestones total for all the lessers. Getting 6 a day, it would take only 17 days or about 2 and a half weeks to fill out my focus, assuming I can get my hands on the greater. Yeah, that's only 2.5 weeks of farming, doing something once a day for about an hour.
Also, don't forget about the inscribed sourcestones (the ones you need for the epic lesser essences) also drop from major zone invasions now, so if you see a major invasion going on, and you complete it, your 17 days will be shorted to 16 for every 6 major zone invasions you complete, sure it doesn't sound like a whole lot, but if you're in such a hurry, you'll do it.
Anyway, it's not like I wouldn't want a free upgrade, save for the cost of the focus, but I'm content with the way it works now. This is progression, whether you're used to this type of progression or not. But hey, maybe if you complain long enough you'll get what you want, like the spoiled children in WoW, I mean wal mart.
Sarathor@Byriel Rank 7 Defiant Mage - retired
Bonqueequee@Byriel Rank 1 Guardian Rogue
Just make expensive crafted item to remove essences
Personally I would go to apothecary, Solvent potion that removes single essence from focus and keeps it soulbound. Mats for thing like this should be reasonably expensive - minor catalyst + 6 eternal planar dusts + some herbs/bones.
Now dps (melee at least, prob casters too) get it pretty easy on boughtable essences; I easily bought 6 essences for my dps focus that all had str/dex/crit as stats - so I didn't need single random drop. Now if I just could buy 6 decent tank essences with inscripted crystals I would have np at all filling new focuses. Sadly there is only ONE good (earth) and one decent (death) essence available on merchants, rest simply dont have str/end/block. This means I need to grind a lot rifts to get full focus and I need to beat rng too. So at least balance vendor essences if this goes throught. And still I wouldn't mind having method to remove old ones, as long as its expensive enought to not be trivial. Besides this game really needs more use for crafters.
I've dreamed about this idea myself, as many others have. Hell, its been prayed for for years in other games removing gems from sockets. But we all know what it does to the game, be it time sinks, or economy.
But in this case, I think this idea should only be viable if applied to Greater Essences only. The ones that cost 50 Inscribed. Yeah, I know most of the greaters are junk, but if they do get around to buffing all of them, they should put this idea in, as well as making Greaters the only thing allowed in Greater slots.. I think it would make the system a little more attractive. Imagine collecting all your greaters for your class,.. 50 a pop, thats a huge time sink, now imagine they are all worth something (would require huge buffs across the board),.. but you can move them around your cores and switch them in and out depending what spec you are playing.
I guess I've always been for the idea that 6 lessers = no fun. I run 6 lessers myself because its statistically better for most classes, but I think its kind of boring. I'd like to have a reason to save up more than 10, or soon to be 20 inscribed at a time and buy that nifty expensive greater that actually means something.
Phazed, GM of <Citadel> a Briarcliff Defiant PVE Guild
The difference is typically gems in other games can be crafted just like that. If I need two new red gems for a new hat in WoW, I can just go to the auction house or a guild mate with jewelcrafting and get me two. Essences here, however, are major investmend, especially the more expensive ones (read: expert rift and above).
The Wardisitor - because sometimes you just can't decide!
or time sink, as i said above. All argument aside that it is a waste of a time sink for a very small upgrade for a new source machine....... Why can't you guys understand, you can't put in a system that takes away a large portion of your time playing this game. The point of MMOs is to have something to do at all times, no matter how sugar coated things are, most things in MMOs can be considered a grind.
This game is called Rift.... if they put this system in where you can move around all your lessers, why would you do a raid rift ever again, besides to help someone? Chances are, it won't take too long to fill out there core and they will be set forever. Developers would be stupid to take out a part of their grind, as I said in a previous post, it would practically be a pay cut. Not to mention, this so called "grind" isn't that hard compared to most things in MMOs of that past. I think we have it easy. Make it any easier, people will play the first month of an MMO, have everything they need because their crying worked,.. then cry more that they have nothing to do,.. then cry because everyone quit.. oh wait, sounds familiar.
Phazed, GM of <Citadel> a Briarcliff Defiant PVE Guild
Exactly, I did the math, and with the new changes it would only take 15 days to get 5 lessers (from a mage POV), and assuming you want the raid death rift greater. Also, if you complete a Major Zone Invasion you also get an inscribed sourcestone meaning you can deduct a day for every 6 MZI you do. Is it a grind for that extra 50 valor or 20 water resistance? Sure, but doing something once a day for about 2 weeks isn't that bad, especially since at release of 1.3 you'll probably see an increase in PuGs doing the raid daily.
Not to mention you're guaranteed an inscribed stone for every Raid Rift you do, so even if you've done the daily, for every 6 Raid Rifts you do, you'll deduct another day off the 2 weeks (or however many you need). So that, including MZI and doing the raid rift daily, it really won't take long, and I think people just want instant gratification.
Last edited by Sarathor; 06-20-2011 at 04:33 PM.
Sarathor@Byriel Rank 7 Defiant Mage - retired
Bonqueequee@Byriel Rank 1 Guardian Rogue
The problem is not really the bought essences, the problem is the dropped essences. My water core uses 3 bought and 3 dropped essences and I'll be wanting to replace that now for the event focus.
Where are the new sigils on the PTS?
So where exactly are these new sigils, cause I can't seem to find them in Sanctum. The Planar Order vendors don't carry them. Neither does the Planar Goods vendor. Anyone?
Easy compromise. Akin to salvage systems other games have used:
When you salvage an item, you can select to get a "salvage" based on the core item, or you can recover an enhancement on the item.
So for the focus, you can destroy the focus in order to get *1* essence back out of it. Considering most people would rather keep the focus and make it more specialized (ie a resist focus), you won't see too many people using the option, but it *would* exist.
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