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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: PVP 1.3 Discussion

  1. #301
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harkain View Post
    the change to critical hit damage from valor has to be the singel most idiotic change ever, did you not learn from wow at all ? they changed away from this due to the issues.

    1: crit protection ontop of generic damage reduction is gonna make self sustaining classes into UNKILLABLE gods, unless you nerf everything with a heal into the ground for pvp this will force 3-4 ppl to kill 1 cleric or chloro lock.

    this change is bad, simply bad.

    2: Also your are double nerfing any class relying on crits, spike damage with little ability to sustain their damage after the first 5-10 seconds. They get hit by both the damage reduction AND crit damage reduction.

    3: You are in essence favouring dots that cant crit etc, this will create imbalances where classes that can load up on dots can simply gain much more from valor.

    4: valor has a FAR FAR to high damage mitigation, it needs to be down to 10% base and 20% from gear at absolute MAX. you are basicly telling every non healer to "for survival you must have a healer" but healers should be able to tank 2-4 ppl without problem.
    Since dots are way underpowered right now and crit damage way overpowered, it seems like the changes make perfect sense. It seems too many people here are not viewing these changes in the terms of balance or any bigger picture but simply are interested in protecting their personal status quo.

    Right now dots suck in PVP. So if your analysis is correct and burst crit damage becomes less valuable and dots become more useful this is a GOOD change, as right now crit damage is significantly more useful than dot damage. So doing something to bring those closer together is good.

  2. #302
    Telaran
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    Why not somthing simple like Removing valor all together. And putting a hit/heal cap on pvp damage.

  3. #303
    Telaran Sincx's Avatar
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    The pure fact that this was only posted after 1000's of threads saying your doing it wrong clearly indidicates you are doing it wrong in the first place. tsssk

    AP scaling for rogues ??? Warriors ???
    SP scaling for Mages ?? Clerics ?



    ....just ugh//


    [EDIT] From our Producer, Gersh
    ************************************************** ****************
    -Gersh

    With 1.3 we've focused on tuning around giving level 50 players a better on ramp into PVP, allowing lower rank players to have better chance of surviving vs. high rank (or raid geared players) through a higher base valor value and more ways to obtain valor pre-50. In addition these adjustments continue to improve PVP gear progression ensuring that the more Valor you get the better your chance of survival, especially against those players using gear without Valor.

    Specifically we wanted to address the lethality of critical hits in PVP which was causing a number of situations where players (or their allies) would die from damage spikes with no way to react to the attack. In addition we are continuing to hand tune specific ability combinations for PVP (without touching PVE performance) that would result in similar results without the aid of a critical hit.

    Finally we realize that increased survivability will also increase the effectiveness of healing and defensive abilities, and we will be closely watching these particular builds on PTS (and live). Our overall goal is to ensure that healing and support is desired in team play but doesn't create builds with both extreme durability and offense at the same time.

    Over the next week we plan on having a number of PVP oriented play tests on our PTS server to help us gather feedback, and so that we can continue to tune these values prior to 1.3 being released.
    ************************************************** ****************
    /[EDIT] Gill
    Last edited by Sincx; 06-12-2011 at 12:19 AM.

  4. #304
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    i reached r6 few days back, played from r1 >r6 in under a month and this is the thx i get? i really wish i would not have payed six months at once since i feel quitting already. Why dont you just remove whole pvp consept from the game so atleast no more ppl wont waste their time ranking up while you only reward players who havent done pvp at all. FU!

  5. #305
    Rift Chaser
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    You're missing the part that says blinks now make the sourcestone drop.

  6. #306
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    People have been testing the new PVE relic gear in PVP, and dam man scaling is insane.

    Cinderhelm has posted his findings that many are starting to figure out. Relic Damage Reduction and how completely broken it is.

    http://ciderhelm.com/?p=612
    Last edited by RequiemRain; 06-12-2011 at 12:23 AM.

  7. #307
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    Quote Originally Posted by RequiemRain View Post
    People have been testing the new PVE relic gear in PVP, and dam man scaling is insane.

    Cinderhelm has posted his findings that many are starting to figure out. Relic Damage Reduction and how completely broken it is.

    http://ciderhelm.com/?p=612

    Physical Damage Reduction (Average): 96.89%
    Obviously this is just geared towards PvE but...i mean...

    Jesus Trion.

  8. #308
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emprahh View Post
    Obviously this is just geared towards PvE but...i mean...

    Jesus Trion.
    I kinda wanted to point out that this dmg scalling works in PVP as well..lol

  9. #309
    Telaran
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    So basically what I'm getting from this is that new PvE gear is being introduced that would make ppl entirely too powerful in PvP so our current PvP system is getting overhauled.

    It all just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Please don't **** up what little PvP is offered in this game.

    Trion is attempting to drastically change far too many things with this patch. This **** should be sorted out on a patch by patch basis not all at once. Class balancing and sweeping PvP changes should be kept separately to avoid a complete cluster ****.
    Last edited by Eviln; 06-12-2011 at 12:39 AM.
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  10. #310
    Prophet of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eviln View Post
    So basically what I'm getting from this is that new PvE gear is being introduced that would make ppl entirely too powerful in PvP so our current PvP system is getting overhauled.
    If anything, it's the direct opposite. At least now people that show up in raid gear will have the tradeoff of being squishy. With free Valor, not so much. I'm afraid this will upset the balance more than the rest of the Valor changes combined.

  11. #311
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digits View Post
    If anything, it's the direct opposite. At least now people that show up in raid gear will have the tradeoff of being squishy. With free Valor, not so much. I'm afraid this will upset the balance more than the rest of the Valor changes combined.
    Yea but comparing the current gear to the 1.3 Relic gear is like night and day. With that big of an increase in stats it would easily become the better choice over the current PvP gear.
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  12. #312
    Champion Harkain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gersh_Trion View Post
    Appending the header that should have went with this post here.. One of our forum mods will go ahead and get the main post updated tonight

    -Gersh

    With 1.3 we've focused on tuning around giving level 50 players a better on ramp into PVP, allowing lower rank players to have better chance of surviving vs. high rank (or raid geared players) through a higher base valor value and more ways to obtain valor pre-50. In addition these adjustments continue to improve PVP gear progression ensuring that the more Valor you get the better your chance of survival, especially against those players using gear without Valor.

    Specifically we wanted to address the lethality of critical hits in PVP which was causing a number of situations where players (or their allies) would die from damage spikes with no way to react to the attack. In addition we are continuing to hand tune specific ability combinations for PVP (without touching PVE performance) that would result in similar results without the aid of a critical hit.

    Finally we realize that increased survivability will also increase the effectiveness of healing and defensive abilities, and we will be closely watching these particular builds on PTS (and live). Our overall goal is to ensure that healing and support is desired in team play but doesn't create builds with both extreme durability and offense at the same time.

    Over the next week we plan on having a number of PVP oriented play tests on our PTS server to help us gather feedback, and so that we can continue to tune these values prior to 1.3 being released.
    Mr gersh.

    we been through a few games now together and this is the first time i can honestly say i disagree on your assessment of what the changes will do, in fact i think you will effectivly kill the last shred of fun that was left in themepark pvp.

    Bringing higher end and lower end chars closer together is good, this part hardly any of us would dispute and those that do are in such minority they are borderline inconsequensial, so for this you and the team gets a thumbs up.

    Now to the actual valor changes, they are quite simple HORRIBLE, there is no other word for it..well maybe TERRIBAD. I will outline why they are so, but i still post the base question, if burst damage was the issue why is it even there ? there is no need for burst dps in pve so you cant be keeping 8k cinderburst for that reason, make them channeled spells, make it half dot half dd etc there is tons of ways to solve this without effectivly headshotting dps players with the proposed valor changes.

    1: Valor crit protection ontop of regular protection will make healer, especially warden/justi/templar living gods of unkillable stature, we are talking about tanking/kiting 5+ players. You speak of not wanting extreme offenece or defence in the same build but you fail to mention what almost everyone who pvps complains about, the fact that you are alowed to have EXTREME defence and healing, giving them more defence while they run around spamming instant heals is simply gonna kill this for us.

    The fact is that for some reason you and your team have put healers on a special pedistal where they unline the rest of us dont have to depend on others, we have to rely on heals, dispels from them and they require what from us ? Healers should be FORCED AND REQUIRED to have warrior defensive bodyguards just like the rest of us are forced and required to have healers for our survival.

    Plz the initial post and your reply here speaks nothing of actually caring about this issue, the fact is that healing is in pvp absurdly overpowered and the defence of healers even worse, even with healing debuffs they wont go down once they ranked abit.

    2: crit protection in itself: it damages builds specificly building on crit like the champion or assassin, classe that cant sustained what little burst you left them with for longer periods of time and letting people basicly make crits into hits is plain and simple bad. I hate to say "learn from wow" but this mistake was done there and they had to change it later simply cause it got so much out of hand. It will go the same way here, if you think crits are that dangerous (and frankly only 1 maybee 2 classes have it) then its better to simply adjust the crit multiplier of that one or two skills and give it a better base scaling to not affect pve.

    3: you still do not mention aoe healing or aoe damage, i thought this was learned from other projects that alowing exessive aoeing both heal and damage in a game turns all pvp into garbage, if you feel the need to add a secondary effect to valor make it reduce both incoming healing and incoming aoe damage. that way you opt for a higher defence but lowerd healing, that is a far more sane option than nerfing crits and the last chance of actually 2-3on1ing and killing a healer.
    Harkain:.
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  13. #313
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    It remains to be seen if I will be able to burst down a Clerc in the next patch, But given the fact you have a ton of bad players on this forum talking about Clerics tanking 5 people with ease and healing others it's quite funny.

    Clerics might tank 5 really bad dpser's who are in greens..

    But against a Rank 6 player, a Cleric is lucky if he can tank 2 before getting slapped down.

    Now this might change next patch, as my burst is going to eat it.

    However there is plenty of specs available to the mage class, mainly the Dominator Line, that will continue to eat the Clerics lunch next patch.

    I'm talking about 75% increase in mana cost of healing spells, or 75% heal debuff (and that's a pure 75% heal debuff, not a 25% out going, 50% incoming heal debuffing)

    if a Dom is assisting on you next pach as a cleric, you're going to die.
    Xsorus - Rank 8 Mage/Server Seastone/Guardian/Guild - Desolate

  14. #314
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    This is the dumbest idea ever.

    Fast-paced PVP is FAR more fun than nothing ever dying.

    If you are going to make everything unkillable, you HAVE to allow for strong mana drains as well, otherwise PVP (and this game) will die.

    Please for the love of God do NOT introduce this change as it currently stands. It is quite obvious the community does not want this.

  15. #315
    Sov
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    They've FINALLY fixed the damn LoS on channelled spells. No more 60mtr Stream of Reclamations 8D
    'This disease you call "Hope" is eating you alive'

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