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Thread: WoW isn't popular because it's easy. The hour a day philosophy.

  1. #46
    Prophet of Telara krilly's Avatar
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    I can think of lots of games that are more time friendly than WOW

    all 3 super hero mmos
    warhammer
    guild wars
    lotro
    D&D online

    I feel wow is popular because they have a mastery of the gear carrot, players hate the gear carrot, but subconciously they are masochists and keep coming back for the gear carrot.

  2. #47
    Rift Chaser Kahz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nucleon View Post
    So here's the argument you see repeated 10 billion times around the internet.

    WoW is easy. WoW is the most successful video game in history. Therefore, people want a game that is easy.

    So, along those same lines Johnny Depp is the best actor and Ben Stiller is the second best actor. Avatar and Titanic are the best movies in human history. Alex Rodriguez is the best baseball player in history and Rashard Lewis is the 2nd best basketball player in the NBA. See how that argument goes.

    The reason WoW is popular is not because it's easy, it's because it's time friendly. It all comes to down to the hour-a-day philosophy. Most gamers only have an hour or so a day to play. Open any psychology textbook and you'll see humans have some basic desires.

    1. We enjoy enjoy challenges. We like to learn, and figure things out.
    2. We also like to accomplish things, it helps increase our feeling of self-worth.
    3. We like to be social among other human beings.

    Every person has those desires weighted differently, some valuing others as most important. But the gist is that we will play the game which allows us to meet our given weighted order of needs in an hour a night.

    Most MMO gamers have lives (!), yes that's right we have jobs, or schoolwork, families and wives and husbands. My schedule is fairly indicative of many MMO players: During the week I go to work 9-5, go to the gym, hang out with my GF until she crashes about 11, and then play games till midnight when I crash. On the weekend I get more time to play.

    The issue with WoW is that it allows us to digest in an hour a night. Basically what WoW shows us is that the most important desire for most people is to accomplish something, with a small (but not non-existant) amount of social activity. That's the reason the dungeon finder and BGs are so popular. It's more important for MMO players to get something done each night, than to face a challenge or be overly social. That does NOT mean we wouldn't prefer a challenge, if it existed. It's just right now, we can choose is a bevy of games which provide a challenge, sometimes, but you cannot digest in an hour at a time - EQ, FFXI, EvE, Darkfall. Or a bevy of games which lack enough content to keep giving us things to accomplish over years, or amount to single player games because you'll never find a group *and* do something useful in an hour - EQ2, Lotro.

    So what's left? WoW. It's the only game on the market that is easily digestible in hour chunks. Each night you can accomplish something no matter what level you are. You can run heroics and dailies, a couple BGs all in an hour, easily allowing you to accomplish something with a little socialization, but sadly even less challenge. If you are leveling you can play quests or use the dungeon finder, again accomplishing something with a little socialization, and sadly almost 0 challenge. Would a game that provides a challenge be more popular, absolutely, but not if it can't be played in an hour-a-day chunks. Think that something can't be challenging unless it takes 3 hours? Well then you must be a professional soccer/basketball/bridge/chess/olympic track and field/football/rubik's cube solving athlete.

    That all sounds good but I think your basic assumption is flawed.

    The reason you can accomplish something in an hour is because the game is EASY.

  3. #48
    General of Telara Mazikeen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by krilly View Post
    I feel wow is popular because they have a mastery of the gear carrot, players hate the gear carrot, but subconciously they are masochists and keep coming back for the gear carrot.
    Some people keep going back to the carrot because gear = ePeen for them and they feel the need to have the biggest and best at all times.
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  4. #49
    Rift Disciple Senrac's Avatar
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    Do not really care about WoW, I left at 3.2 & had been there since beta but hey that is Me! This is Rift, I am here because I love this game, if you don't then there is the door & I will not miss you at all! People play what you like not what others say you should play!

  5. #50
    Rift Disciple Neiwyn's Avatar
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    If you Kick a Mime in the Balls .. does he make any sound ?
    "There are brave men out there.. let's go kill them.."

  6. #51
    Rift Chaser Doomgrin's Avatar
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    Blizzard is a company in the business of making money folks. Their content reflects their companies research into what draws and keeps customers. No company or person can hope to please everyone all the time. Trash talk WoW all you want, they did what they set out to do. They are not a government agency that are required to perform a public service and not living up to their charter. Blizzard will continue to make change so long as they can maintain their revenue flow plain and simple.

    People whine about "easy mode." Well Blizzard did not make the change based on one developer's whim to mix things up. Sorry folks, that is a very narrow and ignorant thinking. A company like Blizzard has huge teams of information gatherers and marketing strategies driving the game changes.

    Now I personally do not like the game-model of having to continuously grind content to achieve any measurable goal (see WoW factions). The constant changes to classes back and forth because of latest combinations of talents and gear is plain stupid. Blizzard made the mistake of trying to make a game with high-end rewards in both PvP and PvE. When will companies learn that the rewards have to be equal and the effort between them the same. Otherwise you really should have two completely different sets of gear (I mean only useable/wearable in the specific portions were the game forces you into the new gear when you enter the pvp instances).... but I digress

    Most "hardcore raids" are not truly challenges except for the few unemployed raid-guilds that are the first to digest the content. For most others it is learning a virtual dance according to a minute few's discoveries. The only "challenging" aspect of raids (and I mean challenging = pain in the butt) is the logistics of organizing raids that is only for the one or two doing so. For everyone else it is boring while you wait for else to get gear, potions, whatever supplies and gather to actually get a raid started.

  7. #52
    Rift Chaser Despoiler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nucleon View Post

    The reason WoW is popular is not because it's easy, it's because it's time friendly. It all comes to down to the hour-a-day philosophy. Most gamers only have an hour or so a day to play. .
    Easy and time friendly are complementary attributes. They are not independent.

    Also, most gamers have more than one hour a day to play. That is why they are called gamers. It's what they do. That is what they spend most of their free time on. People that choose to spend most of their time elsewhere, but then spend 1 hour on gaming are not gamers.
    "Meet me in the shadows and I'll show you the depths of darkness"

  8. #53
    Plane Touched Primal Zed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Despoiler View Post
    Easy and time friendly are complementary attributes. They are not independent.
    How do you figure? Just because something takes a long time doesn't mean it's difficult, and just because something can be done in a short time doesn't mean it's easy.
    What I want to see in a next-gen MMORPG:
    • A more active combat experience, moving away (but not entirely discarding) stat sheets and random number generators to determine combat results and instead gives more credence to dodging, blocking, and timing.
    • An immersive questing experience that doesn't require you to talk to and turn in quests to NPCs yet can still tell a story.

  9. #54
    Rift Master
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    Default Right on!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mazikeen View Post
    WoW is a sellout game
    If you cater to the majority, you stand to make more money. Instead of having a vision, sticking to that vision and letting people who enjoy it pay to experience it, they decided to give up their vision and cater to the masses in search for the allmighty dollar
    While this is business and I accept that, it makes me lose respect for the developers and the game. The minute Trion caters to the masses instead of saying 'this is our game. You can like it or not, you can play it or not, but we will not sell out' I'm gone.
    And I can't stand people who are basically saying 'I'm bored of WoW, but Rift should be more like WoW!' If you like WoW, play it, if not, shut up and play something different.

    [Edit] If you want hard, find a private EQ1 server that's playing pre-PoP, or just talk to an oldschool EQ1 player (before WoW released). All this crap you see as 'hard' now doesn't come close to EQ1. And yes, I'm invoking the name of the game because I'm sick of the whiners. Just like I'm sick of people who do no manual labor complaining when they have to lift a box of copy paper, or a machine stops working properly. Toughen up a bit...
    Can't stress enough that I can't agree more. Pandering is the worst thing an MMO can do. Blizzard is providing an excellent case study of this right now. I hope that Trion:

    * stays professional, engaged, and communicative in its interactions with the player base, but at a distance.
    * takes a measured approach to releasing content and making fixes, always attempting to understand implications and trade-offs.
    * Doesn't lose sight of the forest for the trees (in the form of player complaints especially).
    * puts focus on maintaining civil and fair environments.
    * keeps focus on the "fun" factor and allowing as much shared opportunities for fun for the entire playerbase.
    * Is willing to sacrifice short-term revenue for longer term benefit (such as enforcing rules and perhaps losing subscribers)
    * trusts itself and its creativeness to devise the product according to their own visions
    * Let players discover and devise their ways to have fun and enjoy the game rather than trying to social engineer and force players to play a certain way. In other words, let Trion focus on the what. Let the players focus on the how.

    Anyways, those are my hopes. I hope Rift succeeds. I have great faith thus far.

  10. #55
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    I always get a chuckle out of the people that claim WoW is too easy. These are typically the people who have never attempted the hard content.

    It's like complaining a 5k isn't challenging enough, but you haven't even gotten off of your *** to attempt to run 100 yards yet.
    Last edited by Zooks; 02-09-2011 at 12:13 PM.

  11. #56
    Plane Touched Solkaris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    I don't speak for those who play the game like a job.

    What does World First get you? It's like winning the rat race: You're still a rat.
    This is why the MMO community has gone to hell. Why do anything in life? A World First is just that, its an achievement that the ones pushing for it find meaningful. If your willing to sit back and let others power through the pain of wiping and learning the strats through trial and error, at least show some respect, its because of them you get to watch videos and play easy mode to loot.
    Because a thing seems difficult for you, do not think it impossible for anyone to accomplish. - Marcus Aurelius

  12. #57
    General of Telara I Fear Kittens's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gladius View Post
    can't stress enough that i can't agree more. Pandering is the worst thing an mmo can do. Blizzard is providing an excellent case study of this right now. I hope that trion:

    * stays professional, engaged, and communicative in its interactions with the player base, but at a distance.
    * takes a measured approach to releasing content and making fixes, always attempting to understand implications and trade-offs.
    * doesn't lose sight of the forest for the trees (in the form of player complaints especially).
    * puts focus on maintaining civil and fair environments.
    * keeps focus on the "fun" factor and allowing as much shared opportunities for fun for the entire playerbase.
    * is willing to sacrifice short-term revenue for longer term benefit (such as enforcing rules and perhaps losing subscribers)
    * trusts itself and its creativeness to devise the product according to their own visions
    * let players discover and devise their ways to have fun and enjoy the game rather than trying to social engineer and force players to play a certain way. In other words, let trion focus on the what. Let the players focus on the how.

    Anyways, those are my hopes. I hope rift succeeds. I have great faith thus far.
    ^^^
    this!
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  13. #58
    Champion Ardure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khamul View Post
    Um, hardcore raiding requires 5+ hours a night of continual wiping on bosses. There's nothing "easy" about it. WoW simply offers more variety of gamers the ability to play the game, instead of forcing anyone playing the game to be a certain way.
    what "hardcore guild" were you in... 5 hours a night in a raid... maybe one or two nights upon release of content but not after that... people get increasingly worse after hour 3 of a raid and any smart raid leader or guild leader would call it... hell i was in a hardcore raid guild that had scheduled 4 hours of raiding 3-4 nights a week and we rarely ever did 4 hours because people would get SOOO bad after hour 3...

    and once your hardcore guild gets good the raiding time goes down like nothing else... because people know what to do and it gets done... so really the completely irony is hardcore raiders will average a lower amount of raid time than alot of other raiders because once they clear the content they plow through it in a couple nights of raiding...

    -Ardure

  14. #59
    Ascendant Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Solkaris View Post
    Why do anything in life?
    Dude.

    It's a game.

    Sure, I'd like to do good in a game, and usually I do, but to sacrifice my life for that game is just insane.
    Nalano H. Wildmoon
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  15. #60
    Rift Disciple Skullpunk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gladius View Post
    Can't stress enough that I can't agree more. Pandering is the worst thing an MMO can do. Blizzard is providing an excellent case study of this right now. I hope that Trion:

    * stays professional, engaged, and communicative in its interactions with the player base, but at a distance.
    * takes a measured approach to releasing content and making fixes, always attempting to understand implications and trade-offs.
    * Doesn't lose sight of the forest for the trees (in the form of player complaints especially).
    * puts focus on maintaining civil and fair environments.
    * keeps focus on the "fun" factor and allowing as much shared opportunities for fun for the entire playerbase.
    * Is willing to sacrifice short-term revenue for longer term benefit (such as enforcing rules and perhaps losing subscribers)
    * trusts itself and its creativeness to devise the product according to their own visions
    * Let players discover and devise their ways to have fun and enjoy the game rather than trying to social engineer and force players to play a certain way. In other words, let Trion focus on the what. Let the players focus on the how.

    Anyways, those are my hopes. I hope Rift succeeds. I have great faith thus far.
    indeed, ive preordered ce and got 6 months playtime looks good so far

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