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Thread: WoW isn't popular because it's easy. The hour a day philosophy.

  1. #16
    Telaran Peacelily's Avatar
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    Let us assume for one moment the argument that WoW is great is because players only have 1 hour per day to play and WoW caters to that. Let us then examine how they might use that 1 hour.

    Case 1: DPS LFG Heroic XXX
    First 45 minutes are spent in a queue.
    15 minutes into the dungeon they offer some lame excuse and leave.

    Case 2: 25 man raid
    Log in 30 mins before raid as per raid group rules.
    Clear to first boss and assuming he is a fast fight and on farm down him.
    Give ****ty excuse and log out

    Case 3: Farming
    10 mins to empty bags, repair and get to the zone
    40 mins of boring flying around hoping against hope for a node that doesn't get ninjaed by a druid a second before you tap it
    10 mins at the AH dealing with listing all the ore/etc

    Case 4: PVP
    5- 10 mins in a queue
    Horrible PUG match where you get crushed by a pre-made
    Alternative - horrible PVE match in the 'BG' of AV - see another enemy player but was too far away to chase and fight, match ends with 30 kills total on scoreboard.


    The truth is, if you only have 1 hour a day you can only ever be a scrub in that game with hand me down gear from badges / valor /etc. You'll get access to 3 season old PVP gear, never have time to run a heroic except with a group who vastly outgear you and roflstomp the instance and will likely kick you for being 'LOLZ WORST DPS EVER!' You can quest, and farm, and run some PVP but you'll never be a part of the real end game.

  2. #17
    Ascendant Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Somafera View Post
    I wouldn't consider WoW a MMO as it is right now, more of a interactive chat room.
    That implies it was something more than a chatroom with a GUI before.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peacelily View Post
    Case 4: PVP
    5- 10 mins in a queue
    Horrible PUG match where you get crushed by a pre-made
    Alternative - horrible PVE match in the 'BG' of AV - see another enemy player but was too far away to chase and fight, match ends with 30 kills total on scoreboard.
    I rolled with a premade that pointedly put a stop to that **** by basically all playing defense at the bottleneck. What it took, tho, was a premade.
    Last edited by Nalano; 02-09-2011 at 08:15 AM.
    Nalano H. Wildmoon
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  3. #18
    Plane Walker Qlippoth's Avatar
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    I wonder why people think Rift will be hard.
    Only because you quitted WoW "because it's too easy!" you're deluding yourself hoping in a uber hardcore game.
    Sorry, not happening. Rift will be casual friendly exactly like WoW.

  4. #19
    General of Telara Mazikeen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nucleon View Post
    WoW is easy. WoW is the most successful video game in history. Therefore, people want a game that is easy.
    With the number of posts and threads I see trying to make Rift more like WoW, this is true for some.

    So, along those same lines Johnny Depp is the best actor
    I agree with this wholeheartedly. Even if you odn't like his movies you have to admit he has talent

    The reason WoW is popular is not because it's easy, it's because it's time friendly. It all comes to down to the hour-a-day philosophy. Most gamers only have an hour or so a day to play. Open any psychology textbook and you'll see humans have some basic desires.
    Fun Fact: an hour a day IS easy.

    Most MMO gamers have lives (!), yes that's right we have jobs, or schoolwork, families and wives and husbands. My schedule is fairly indicative of many MMO players: During the week I go to work 9-5, go to the gym, hang out with my GF until she crashes about 11, and then play games till midnight when I crash. On the weekend I get more time to play.
    An I can understand this and understand your point

    The issue with WoW is that it allows us to digest in an hour a night. Basically what WoW shows us is that the most important desire for most people is to accomplish something, with a small (but not non-existant) amount of social activity.
    If anything in WoW feels like an accomplishment to you these days, you don't play much (which you have already stated). Yes, it's ease of use is why it's so popular. Popularity does not mean it's fun for everyone

    That's the reason the dungeon finder and BGs are so popular. It's more important for MMO players to get something done each night, than to face a challenge or be overly social.
    From personal experience, I can say the dungeon finder was popular because it allowed people to group with unknowns, be a bunghole and get out with loot/emblems and not have to ever see those people again

    That does NOT mean we wouldn't prefer a challenge, if it existed. It's just right now, we can choose is a bevy of games which provide a challenge, sometimes, but you cannot digest in an hour at a time - EQ, FFXI, EvE, Darkfall. Or a bevy of games which lack enough content to keep giving us things to accomplish over years, or amount to single player games because you'll never find a group *and* do something useful in an hour - EQ2, Lotro.
    The difficulty in finding groups is largely a social issue, not a mechanics issue. While tanks/healers are usually the bottlenecks, I know for a fact LotRO has three tank classes (only two are raid MT classes) and two healing classes. When you can't find one, it's usually an issue of people being picky or elitist

    So what's left? WoW. It's the only game on the market that is easily digestible in hour chunks. Each night you can accomplish something no matter what level you are. You can run heroics and dailies, a couple BGs all in an hour, easily allowing you to accomplish something with a little socialization, but sadly even less challenge. If you are leveling you can play quests or use the dungeon finder, again accomplishing something with a little socialization, and sadly almost 0 challenge. Would a game that provides a challenge be more popular, absolutely, but not if it can't be played in an hour-a-day chunks.
    If you like WoW because of it's hour-a-day design, then maybe you should stick to WoW and not complain about or try to change a game that's already been designed

    Think that something can't be challenging unless it takes 3 hours? Well then you must be a professional soccer/basketball/bridge/chess/olympic track and field/football/rubik's cube solving athlete.
    Whoever said Rift took hours upon hours a day? Log on, go hit a few rifts, win, log off. Takes 20 minutes

    What are you complaining about, exactly?
    "Someone ever tries to kill you, you try to kill 'em right back!" - Mal Reynolds, Firefly
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  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nikkoleth View Post
    Stopped reading there tbh. WoW is popular because it is easy. It is simple. Cata Proves it. They made the game more difficult, people complained like it was the end of the world, threatened to cancel their sub, and so Blizz nerfed the games balls off like they have been doing for years to appease the carebears.

    I'll rephrase, WoW is popular because it suits those that like ease rather than challenge.
    ouch so they did keep up that trend. I heard that it took Paragon like a month to get the
    world first instead of getting it in like 16 hours.

    That is sad they did end up nerfing everything

  6. #21
    Rift Disciple Cheers's Avatar
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    WoW is as easy as grandMom-friendly, and I don't like a easy MMO, Period!

    maybe I will categorize it with farmville, and I dont play those games.

    Farmville is easy too.

  7. #22
    General of Telara Mazikeen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nikkoleth View Post
    I'll rephrase, WoW is popular because it suits those that like ease rather than challenge.
    WoW is a sellout game
    If you cater to the majority, you stand to make more money. Instead of having a vision, sticking to that vision and letting people who enjoy it pay to experience it, they decided to give up their vision and cater to the masses in search for the allmighty dollar
    While this is business and I accept that, it makes me lose respect for the developers and the game. The minute Trion caters to the masses instead of saying 'this is our game. You can like it or not, you can play it or not, but we will not sell out' I'm gone.
    And I can't stand people who are basically saying 'I'm bored of WoW, but Rift should be more like WoW!' If you like WoW, play it, if not, shut up and play something different.

    [Edit] If you want hard, find a private EQ1 server that's playing pre-PoP, or just talk to an oldschool EQ1 player (before WoW released). All this crap you see as 'hard' now doesn't come close to EQ1. And yes, I'm invoking the name of the game because I'm sick of the whiners. Just like I'm sick of people who do no manual labor complaining when they have to lift a box of copy paper, or a machine stops working properly. Toughen up a bit...
    Last edited by Mazikeen; 02-09-2011 at 08:26 AM.
    "Someone ever tries to kill you, you try to kill 'em right back!" - Mal Reynolds, Firefly
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  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rawne View Post
    Thankyou, that is the best chuckle i've had today.

    If your "hardcore" raiding is you wiping 5 hours a night then you are doing something wrong.

    Also Elitist Jerks, cookie cutter builds and gearscore just called they said this comment...



    Is a lie.
    Generally, bad players say this because they think their "progression" guild and/or "progression" pug group is what hardcore raiding is all about. While you were still trying to get past normal festergut in ICC, we were wiping on 25 HM LK with the 5% buff. Once you've experienced that edge of progression where you're actually pushing the limits of your raid comp then you can speak about what someone may be doing wrong.

    Good luck though, I'm sure your scrub-like mentality will work very well within the limited scope of this game. Afterall, you have nothing challenging to worry about, and there won't be that competitive edge that larger more successful MMOs bring to the gameplay experience.

  9. #24
    General of Telara Mazikeen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khamul View Post
    Good luck though, I'm sure your scrub-like mentality will work very well within the limited scope of this game. Afterall, you have nothing challenging to worry about, and there won't be that competitive edge that larger more successful MMOs bring to the gameplay experience.
    Point of Fact: anyone who calls someone else a 'scrub' when referring to a video game thinks entirely too highly of themselves, has illusions about their own value and has their priorities all sorts of screwed up
    "Someone ever tries to kill you, you try to kill 'em right back!" - Mal Reynolds, Firefly
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  10. #25
    Soulwalker
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    The dude has a point, WoW is easy in most aspects. Raiding? No. Old raids? For the most part yes. Cata upped the Difficulty a little and took back the ability to outgear dungeons to the point of knocking them out in minutes... not hours.

    As the years went on the Dev team got extremely lazy and if you'll notice so did the design philosophy. Cataclysm was nothing more than a very big patch.

    "It changed the world and made the game revolutionary" No it didn't. It gave the leveling system a much needed overhaul after 6 years of plainly ignoring the entire early questing zones.

    The zones added were not really revolutionary and you could hit 85 extremely quickly and gear faster than that. First day of Cata being out my guild was in heroics and halfway ready for raids. Sure the heroics might be hard, so might the raids but the game is a cakewalk.

    PvP - Well, class balance in this game sucks because they tune it for PvE and add only a few possibly defensive talents in tree's to make them "PvP" What about the FotM system? (Flavor of the month - Anyone not familiar with WoW? Well it's a trend blizzard has with making a class/spec combo or Ranged/Magic/Melee Overpowered for one Arena season then nerfing them to the ground the next)

    The one thing Blizzard has done well over the past few years is to make you feel involved with the game if you ignore the extreme aspects. It keeps you there looking at your character even if you right at that moment want to uninstall the game at the moment. It keeps you pressing the spacebar and jumping around a capital city for hours on end waiting for BG's to pop or your dungeon queue to yank you for a battleground that may last 5 minutes or a dungeon where you get in and the tank quits because he hates the place that the game auto-selected)

    Mainly you love the game no matter how much you truly hate it. That's it. If I get a piece of gear from PvP or got a cool kill on a boss. My day was made until the next when I felt like crap again.

    The other noticeable thing I guess. When you upgraded a piece of gear you got to see how much of a difference it made. it made you -Grind- Instances or BG's to want to get those upgrades. Hours and hours on end to upgrade gear to make a slight difference to your character. Period of time having your little brother play just so you could soak up some honor points because you couldn't stand to look at the computer screen anymore. Or dungeons where you just zoned out through them and actually vaguely remembering running them because of the lack of mental power it took after so long.

    I don't know about you guys but WoW turned into too much of a -Job- And I like rift at the moment because it's new. It's an MMO that puts you into a gameplay style that we are familiar with while presenting a new design aspect and world. Better graphics and what I hope is a better team of designers that in the future won't let the fame go to their heads.

  11. #26
    Rift Chaser Netherscourge's Avatar
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    WoW is popular because it rewards you immediately and every step along the way.

    -You don't wait a week to level up each level.
    -You don't have to grind mobs for hours to make enough gold to buy something .
    -You don't have to spend 3 hours clearing a basic dungeon.
    -You can get the second-best tier of gear in the game, gradually, by getting special currency from casual content that accumulates over time, the more often you run it. (Badge/Justice Point Gear)


    WoW is popular because all of it's content is accessible. The high-end raiding stuff also becomes accessible over time, either through a global dungeon buff for players, upgrading your gear through pre-req raids OR the aforementioned casual badge/point gear farming.

    Nobody is left out. Anyone can get something out of WoW because they made sure to cover every possible avenue without making certain groups feel inferior because they didn't spend Sat and Sun night running a raid dungeon for 6 or 7 hours at a time.

    THAT'S why WoW is the King of the MMO mountain right now.

    Not too mention it's incredibly polished gameplay and mechanics (bugs withstanding of course). Smooth animations, responsive interface... WoW is the total package.

    Knock it all you want, but those are the facts.

  12. #27
    Plane Touched Primal Zed's Avatar
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    So here's the argument you see repeated 10 billion times around the internet.

    WoW is easy. WoW is the most successful video game in history. Therefore, people want a game that is easy.

    So, along those same lines Johnny Depp is the best actor and Ben Stiller is the second best actor. Avatar and Titanic are the best movies in human history. Alex Rodriguez is the best baseball player in history and Rashard Lewis is the 2nd best basketball player in the NBA. See how that argument goes.
    The problem with this thread (and most discussions about how good or bad WoW is) is in this premise: confusing measurable success with subjective quality.

    edit: I think that Netherscourge's post above this one is a pretty good assessment.
    Last edited by Primal Zed; 02-09-2011 at 08:41 AM.
    What I want to see in a next-gen MMORPG:
    • A more active combat experience, moving away (but not entirely discarding) stat sheets and random number generators to determine combat results and instead gives more credence to dodging, blocking, and timing.
    • An immersive questing experience that doesn't require you to talk to and turn in quests to NPCs yet can still tell a story.

  13. #28
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    I think one of the biggest problems Wow currently has is not the game itself. I've been playing WoW since beta, quit a few times, but resubbed every expansion and enjoyed the game again for a while. Cata was actually the first expansion where I could not bring myself to logging in after I hit max level.

    Anywho, aside from "not a lot of stuff to do", the biggest problem with WoW is the community. People think too highly of themselves, and just because it's all online and they can hide behind their PC, they act like complete jerks. I most certainly hope that won't happen to the Rift community, but unfortunately I already see some "I raided HC in WoW" types here as well.

    Lighten up, it's just a game. If you raided HC you're no better than any other player, just more experienced.

  14. #29
    Champion Nikkoleth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qlippoth View Post
    I wonder why people think Rift will be hard.
    Only because you quitted WoW "because it's too easy!" you're deluding yourself hoping in a uber hardcore game.
    Sorry, not happening. Rift will be casual friendly exactly like WoW.
    No not uber hardcore. But at the moment a level 17 dungeon in Rift is more challenging than a level 80+ dungeon in WoW. Not uber hard, but definitely more challenge.
    WoW is like Facebook, it was cool till you saw your grandma on it.

  15. #30
    Plane Walker NUTZJ98's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khamul View Post
    Um, hardcore raiding requires 5+ hours a night of continual wiping on bosses. There's nothing "easy" about it. WoW simply offers more variety of gamers the ability to play the game, instead of forcing anyone playing the game to be a certain way.
    That isn't always true. Many guilds raid every night, doing just a couple bosses at a time.

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