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Thread: WoW isn't popular because it's easy. The hour a day philosophy.

  1. #136
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    Your points are fair except that:

    A) WoW is still super goddamned easy.

    B) You can TRY to play any way you want, but you'll be ridiculed out of doing any meaningful content unless you adhere to the "best" way to go about things.

    Anyway, all games need rules - the "Let me play any way I want!" line is for spoiled children. You don't walk into a chess tournament with checkers, you don't roll up to a polker table and try to play Old Maid. Games need rules in order to function, especially with multiple players, and there's nothing wrong with that. It's much more enjoyable for everyone if there is a clear 'right' way to do things, because it means nobody has to be weighed down by the one moron who has this compulsion to stand out and so plays poorly and hurts everyone's experience. I'm not talking about 'builds', either - I like Rift's freedom in that regard and hope that varied builds all stand on their own and are perfectly viable. I'm more talking about behavior and strategy.

    And with WoW's new post-4.0 talent-tree revamp.. there's really no freedom of choice. You basically have 31 points of proscribed talents and about 7 to do with as you please.

  2. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nucleon View Post
    So here's the argument you see repeated 10 billion times around the internet.

    WoW is easy. WoW is the most successful video game in history. Therefore, people want a game that is easy.

    So, along those same lines Johnny Depp is the best actor and Ben Stiller is the second best actor. Avatar and Titanic are the best movies in human history. Alex Rodriguez is the best baseball player in history and Rashard Lewis is the 2nd best basketball player in the NBA. See how that argument goes.

    The reason WoW is popular is not because it's easy, it's because it's time friendly. It all comes to down to the hour-a-day philosophy. Most gamers only have an hour or so a day to play. Open any psychology textbook and you'll see humans have some basic desires.

    1. We enjoy enjoy challenges. We like to learn, and figure things out.
    2. We also like to accomplish things, it helps increase our feeling of self-worth.
    3. We like to be social among other human beings.

    Every person has those desires weighted differently, some valuing others as most important. But the gist is that we will play the game which allows us to meet our given weighted order of needs in an hour a night.

    Most MMO gamers have lives (!), yes that's right we have jobs, or schoolwork, families and wives and husbands. My schedule is fairly indicative of many MMO players: During the week I go to work 9-5, go to the gym, hang out with my GF until she crashes about 11, and then play games till midnight when I crash. On the weekend I get more time to play.

    The issue with WoW is that it allows us to digest in an hour a night. Basically what WoW shows us is that the most important desire for most people is to accomplish something, with a small (but not non-existant) amount of social activity. That's the reason the dungeon finder and BGs are so popular. It's more important for MMO players to get something done each night, than to face a challenge or be overly social. That does NOT mean we wouldn't prefer a challenge, if it existed. It's just right now, we can choose is a bevy of games which provide a challenge, sometimes, but you cannot digest in an hour at a time - EQ, FFXI, EvE, Darkfall. Or a bevy of games which lack enough content to keep giving us things to accomplish over years, or amount to single player games because you'll never find a group *and* do something useful in an hour - EQ2, Lotro.

    So what's left? WoW. It's the only game on the market that is easily digestible in hour chunks. Each night you can accomplish something no matter what level you are. You can run heroics and dailies, a couple BGs all in an hour, easily allowing you to accomplish something with a little socialization, but sadly even less challenge. If you are leveling you can play quests or use the dungeon finder, again accomplishing something with a little socialization, and sadly almost 0 challenge. Would a game that provides a challenge be more popular, absolutely, but not if it can't be played in an hour-a-day chunks. Think that something can't be challenging unless it takes 3 hours? Well then you must be a professional soccer/basketball/bridge/chess/olympic track and field/football/rubik's cube solving athlete.
    As WoW stands what can you possibly do in just a hour? after you max out lvls there is very little to do. do heroics? ya dps waits 30-50 mnts to get in a instance that takes about 2 hours to clear and that is if people dont drop out because they are stupid hard now. do profesions? ok when they are maxed what now? archeology?....wont even comment on the boringness of that.

  3. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nuada View Post
    As WoW stands what can you possibly do in just a hour? after you max out lvls there is very little to do. do heroics? ya dps waits 30-50 mnts to get in a instance that takes about 2 hours to clear and that is if people dont drop out because they are stupid hard now. do profesions? ok when they are maxed what now? archeology?....wont even comment on the boringness of that.
    People do their dailies in an hour. If they dont want to do that they can level an alt.

    Theres always something you can do in an hour in WoW.

    That doesnt mean its worth doing though. In general most things that are worth doing in WoW still take an enormous amount of time.

  4. #139
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    My sub ends on the 13th, let me tell you. As DPS I wait 30 minutes for a heroic dungeon, which can either get finished in 30 mins if the group is perfect, or take an hour and still fail to finish. So in a perfect world I can run 1 heroic a day, which you might get one or 2 a week that way.

    Battlegrounds have similarly massive queues right now from a horde perspective, so you might if your lucky and win/lose fast get two done in an hour.

    The term catoring to casual gamers! has destroyed many MMOs that have released recently. FFXI being one, its mechanic on capping skill gain a day on a single tree to stop hardcores from out leveling the casuals is a design flaw that has cost them big time.

    If you only have an hour a day, play a single player...

  5. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nonsensei436 View Post
    People do their dailies in an hour. If they dont want to do that they can level an alt.

    Theres always something you can do in an hour in WoW.

    That doesnt mean its worth doing though. In general most things that are worth doing in WoW still take an enormous amount of time.
    This is pretty true. You can sit and grind rep for an hour, but who in their right mind wants to do that?

    Personally, I don't have any problem with long dungeons - and Rift's are pretty long and pretty difficult, but I support that.

    But still, there's plenty you can do in Rift that's meaningful in an hour, even at max level -

    I mean, hello, Rifts! They reward pretty well, they're fun, and you can probably do a bunch of them in under an hour.

  6. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nucleon View Post
    So here's the argument you see repeated 10 billion times around the internet.

    WoW is easy. WoW is the most successful video game in history. Therefore, people want a game that is easy.

    So, along those same lines Johnny Depp is the best actor and Ben Stiller is the second best actor. Avatar and Titanic are the best movies in human history. Alex Rodriguez is the best baseball player in history and Rashard Lewis is the 2nd best basketball player in the NBA. See how that argument goes.

    The reason WoW is popular is not because it's easy, it's because it's time friendly. It all comes to down to the hour-a-day philosophy. Most gamers only have an hour or so a day to play. Open any psychology textbook and you'll see humans have some basic desires.

    1. We enjoy enjoy challenges. We like to learn, and figure things out.
    2. We also like to accomplish things, it helps increase our feeling of self-worth.
    3. We like to be social among other human beings.

    Every person has those desires weighted differently, some valuing others as most important. But the gist is that we will play the game which allows us to meet our given weighted order of needs in an hour a night.

    Most MMO gamers have lives (!), yes that's right we have jobs, or schoolwork, families and wives and husbands. My schedule is fairly indicative of many MMO players: During the week I go to work 9-5, go to the gym, hang out with my GF until she crashes about 11, and then play games till midnight when I crash. On the weekend I get more time to play.

    The issue with WoW is that it allows us to digest in an hour a night. Basically what WoW shows us is that the most important desire for most people is to accomplish something, with a small (but not non-existant) amount of social activity. That's the reason the dungeon finder and BGs are so popular. It's more important for MMO players to get something done each night, than to face a challenge or be overly social. That does NOT mean we wouldn't prefer a challenge, if it existed. It's just right now, we can choose is a bevy of games which provide a challenge, sometimes, but you cannot digest in an hour at a time - EQ, FFXI, EvE, Darkfall. Or a bevy of games which lack enough content to keep giving us things to accomplish over years, or amount to single player games because you'll never find a group *and* do something useful in an hour - EQ2, Lotro.

    So what's left? WoW. It's the only game on the market that is easily digestible in hour chunks. Each night you can accomplish something no matter what level you are. You can run heroics and dailies, a couple BGs all in an hour, easily allowing you to accomplish something with a little socialization, but sadly even less challenge. If you are leveling you can play quests or use the dungeon finder, again accomplishing something with a little socialization, and sadly almost 0 challenge. Would a game that provides a challenge be more popular, absolutely, but not if it can't be played in an hour-a-day chunks. Think that something can't be challenging unless it takes 3 hours? Well then you must be a professional soccer/basketball/bridge/chess/olympic track and field/football/rubik's cube solving athlete.
    The original poster is only partially right. yes you can play wow an hour a day and feel like you at least did somthing. However to really play wow as already said takes hours and hours of raiding.

    The reason WoW is so popular is because of the following imo:

    1) Huge fan base. Wow had great story and massive following pre creation people already believed in the world. (arguments against this is LoTR and others games did not bode as well) I will explain this further down. But if Starcraft hit and mmo it could do really well as well same with final fantasy as is one reason game still afloat and given time to clean up.

    2) timing I think this was a huge factor. Pre WoW there really only a handful of REAL MMO's Asheron's call, EQ, Ultima, Eve, lineage and starting of the sequels to the above game. None of these games were user friendly and really only went after hardcore gamer because at that time it was beleived these are only people to play these types of games.
    - Enter WoW it comes in at the end of a lot of these games life spans EQ2 release 15 days earlier than wow. So a lot of gamers at this point wanted somthing new, and they knew what World of warcraft was because at some point they played the RTS.

    nowadays there a new MMO created every week and released and a lot of these are created worlds and orgins. If they don't suceeded right away they usually die because a new one hits the market. The market back then was more forgiving due to less options.

    3) Multiple mmo , now with so many mmo's when one hits it's given like the month of death where after a month people will start leaving/calling game failed and dead. Reason: because there are so many mmo's, there are so many new games why waste time for a game to fix itself. Top this off WoW is so maintstream people always compare every game to WoW. When they do so they compare wow to it's current state. They do not compare wow to it's original state. WoW had a lot of problems but back then people where willing to play though that due to lack of options.

    4) Money. Since so many games are being created now you need money to start in this market and a lot of it. Most of these mmo are trying to hit big and be rich quick with ton of mmo's on the market blizzard backed wow hard it had a lot of problems and now it's a very smooth and stable game which they did with money and it's paying off for the,/

  7. #142
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    reason wow has been so successful since release is that anyone with any crappy walmart computer can get on and play it.it opened the gameing industry up to just about any person. where as before most had to have a medium to high end maching to play the games that where out there.

  8. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    I don't speak for those who play the game like a job.

    What does World First get you? It's like winning the rat race: You're still a rat.
    Exactly...anyone who treats an mmo like a job needs a life..I use it as an escape from the bs real life sometimes hurls at you from giant sized monkey hands. I see what your saying though but that can be said for any game. Someone could log in create a level 1 and RP all day everyday and feel his monthly fee is justified...your argument lacks substance. "Shouldn't you be in school?"

  9. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkshore View Post
    Exactly...anyone who treats an mmo like a job needs a life..I use it as an escape from the bs real life sometimes hurls at you from giant sized monkey hands. I see what your saying though but that can be said for any game. Someone could log in create a level 1 and RP all day everyday and feel his monthly fee is justified...your argument lacks substance. "Shouldn't you be in school?"
    Seriously, I ain't John Henry, and I'm not gonna die with a hammer in my hand just to make a point.

    Nobody outside the guild of the World Firsters gives a flying **** what the World Firsters do.
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  10. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khamul View Post
    Um, hardcore raiding requires 5+ hours a night of continual wiping on bosses. There's nothing "easy" about it. WoW simply offers more variety of gamers the ability to play the game, instead of forcing anyone playing the game to be a certain way.

    you dont have hardcore raiding in wow, lineage , EQ they were hardcore, wow raiding is casual

    it takes a matter of days to level a character to max level not years.
    there is no real death penalty , when each death means you have 2 days of grinding ahead of you to make it up thats hardcore.
    you need almost no consumables. one person has to bring some food and one makes a few flasks. and those last through death!

    wow hardcore raiding , just outright LOL. only someone who has only played one MMO could possibly think of it like that.

    the entire of the first tier of cata raiding was beaten within a couple of months of release, in a real hardcore game people would of only just started to hit max level! and there will be months between each boss kill because they are tuned so damn tight to needing perfection.

    i remember back in EQ in the early years when we were breaking planes. raids were from friday 7pm to midnight sunday with a couple of 4 hour sleep breaks! (we all had jobs to) and you step up with this 5 hour mark of hardcore, child please!

  11. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Concept2 View Post
    One of WoW's biggest problems was the gear inflation were they wanted people to replace their epic Naxx gear with level 65 quest gear. Had the increase in stats remained constant from vanilla>BC>wrath They would simply have needed to increase the level cap further, maybe 20 levels per xpac? decreasing the base EXP to level is just fine then if you want 1->100 to take as long as 1->60 did in vanilla.
    This was also a heavy contributer to the low % of vanilla players to see/complete Naxx because once the word got out that you'd be dumping your gear for quest blues and greens a week after the xpac hit a lot of raiding stopped.

  12. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nucleon View Post
    Most gamers only have an hour or so a day to play.
    1) If you have an hour a day to play ONLY I would not call you a gamer. If you are a gamer you will find time to play.
    2) Did you take a survey and find that gamers say they only play an hour a day? I think not and find that impossible to believe.
    Last edited by Rocksinmybag; 02-10-2011 at 06:55 AM.

  13. #148
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    Default wow...

    People who are playing subscribtion mmo's for 1 hour a day are selling theirself short anyway. Also most "gamers" that play for one hour a day are playing facebook games or Angry Birds (or something along those lines). Not World of Warcraft.

    The majority of people I find calling for easier mmo's and telling people they're "casuals" play more along the lines of 20-60 hours a week. They just want to get thing handed to them because they don't want the game to offer any challenge of any sort.

  14. #149
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    It took FFXI players 18 hours to beat Absolute Virtue. That's a single boss. Wowheads need to stop acting hard and realize that they are still in the kiddie pool.
    Last edited by LightningHobo; 02-10-2011 at 11:20 AM.

  15. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nucleon View Post
    So here's the argument you see repeated 10 billion times around the internet.

    WoW is easy. WoW is the most successful video game in history. Therefore, people want a game that is easy.

    So, along those same lines Johnny Depp is the best actor and Ben Stiller is the second best actor. Avatar and Titanic are the best movies in human history. Alex Rodriguez is the best baseball player in history and Rashard Lewis is the 2nd best basketball player in the NBA. See how that argument goes.

    The reason WoW is popular is not because it's easy, it's because it's time friendly. It all comes to down to the hour-a-day philosophy. Most gamers only have an hour or so a day to play. Open any psychology textbook and you'll see humans have some basic desires.

    1. We enjoy enjoy challenges. We like to learn, and figure things out.
    2. We also like to accomplish things, it helps increase our feeling of self-worth.
    3. We like to be social among other human beings.

    Every person has those desires weighted differently, some valuing others as most important. But the gist is that we will play the game which allows us to meet our given weighted order of needs in an hour a night.

    Most MMO gamers have lives (!), yes that's right we have jobs, or schoolwork, families and wives and husbands. My schedule is fairly indicative of many MMO players: During the week I go to work 9-5, go to the gym, hang out with my GF until she crashes about 11, and then play games till midnight when I crash. On the weekend I get more time to play.

    The issue with WoW is that it allows us to digest in an hour a night. Basically what WoW shows us is that the most important desire for most people is to accomplish something, with a small (but not non-existant) amount of social activity. That's the reason the dungeon finder and BGs are so popular. It's more important for MMO players to get something done each night, than to face a challenge or be overly social. That does NOT mean we wouldn't prefer a challenge, if it existed. It's just right now, we can choose is a bevy of games which provide a challenge, sometimes, but you cannot digest in an hour at a time - EQ, FFXI, EvE, Darkfall. Or a bevy of games which lack enough content to keep giving us things to accomplish over years, or amount to single player games because you'll never find a group *and* do something useful in an hour - EQ2, Lotro.

    So what's left? WoW. It's the only game on the market that is easily digestible in hour chunks. Each night you can accomplish something no matter what level you are. You can run heroics and dailies, a couple BGs all in an hour, easily allowing you to accomplish something with a little socialization, but sadly even less challenge. If you are leveling you can play quests or use the dungeon finder, again accomplishing something with a little socialization, and sadly almost 0 challenge. Would a game that provides a challenge be more popular, absolutely, but not if it can't be played in an hour-a-day chunks. Think that something can't be challenging unless it takes 3 hours? Well then you must be a professional soccer/basketball/bridge/chess/olympic track and field/football/rubik's cube solving athlete.

    Your logic is very flawed, in order to be good at WoW you pretty much need a MINIMUM of 5 hrs a day......oh and Johnny Depp is the best actor currently.

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