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Thread: Girl trouble.

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sap View Post
    Fair enough, I just can't drop all connection to her now though. I feel like I'm in over my head.
    I dunno man people aren't walking in your shoes so they can't really know for sure... but if your homie is a scrub to her and she is a great girl I say screw him and show her how a lady should be treated.
    Last edited by dinhosaur; 02-06-2011 at 06:11 PM.
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  2. #17
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    Default Let me give you a girl's opinion.

    -SOME- men and women can be friends. Honestly, I'm more comfortable around guys than I am most women. My best and longest friends are guys. Most of the girl friends I've had eventually proved themselves to be lying, dramatic, backstabbing jerks.
    Before you make any decisions you really need to weigh the pros and cons of any actions you may or may not make. If you make a move, you risk rejection (despite her being "into" you), and you risk not only the friend that she is involved with, but those in your circle. Moving into another friend's territory will lose you a lot of respect.
    Your friend has every right to feel a bit jealous. It's natural, whether you are making any interest in his girl obvious or not.
    My husband and I both have a lot of respect for our friends thanks to how they treat me. If any have an interest, they don't make a move. Even when we were dating, they respected our relationship. Had we broken up, I can name at least one that likely would have tried to move in.
    In my opinion, you should not try to steal her. Talking to her about your feelings might not be a bad idea, but I would confront your friend. You don't have to outright say you have feelings for his girlfriend, but you may want to explain that while the two of you are close, you are not going to cross that line out of respect for him. A dear friend of mine made that clear to my husband when he was getting jealous at one point, and it seemed to calm things a bit. If they break up, let a bit of time pass, keeping in touch with her of course, and then make a move.
    If he really isn't good for her, it's up to her to leave him, not for you to sweep her away. So long as she is in that relationship, it'll be tough to tell if she is worth losing your friends or not.

  3. #18
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    I don't care how cool the girl is, if you do this you are a crappy friend. If you're really Nick's friend why don't you be a "friend" and enlighten him how to better treat women, make a man out of him. I've been hit on by guys who are friends with the guy I'm dating, and if either you or Courtney goes for it, you, in my opinion, have a very questionable moral code and don't truly know what being a friend is. A friend doesn't sieze the opportunity to take something from another friend just because they can.

    Just my 2 cents.
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  4. #19
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    It's not like he is sabotaging their relationship... he said that his guy friend treats her horribly... she may be one of those girls that gets chopped down by verbal abuse and then thinks of herself so poorly that she doesn't know how to escape the abusive relationship.

    I don't really know why anyone would try to be most considerate to a guy in a relationship if he was making it so unhealthy....
    Last edited by dinhosaur; 02-06-2011 at 06:22 PM.
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  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by dinhosaur View Post
    It's not like he is sabotaging their relationship... he said that his guy friend treats her horribly... she may be one of those girls that gets chopped down by verbal abuse and then thinks of herself so poorly that she doesn't know how to escape the abusive relationship.
    Sitting in wait plotting to take your friend's girl is sabotaging it. He should be pushing his friend to be a better man and not even think about being with her until they break up. If he's not trying to make his friend a better person then how exactly is he his "friend". I guess people use that term more loosely than others.

    I never said it was ok for his friend to treat the girl badly, just wondering where the loyalty is.
    A friend is someone who knows the song in your heart and can sing it back to you when you have forgotten the lyrics.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by dinhosaur View Post
    It's not like he is sabotaging their relationship... he said that his guy friend treats her horribly... she may be one of those girls that gets chopped down by verbal abuse and then thinks of herself so poorly that she doesn't know how to escape the abusive relationship.

    I don't really know why anyone would try to be most considerate to a guy in a relationship if he was making it so unhealthy....
    If the relationship is so bad... then she could easily be interested in Sap here because he treats her well, or perhaps he would be a rebound.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by False Hope View Post
    If the relationship is so bad... then she could easily be interested in Sap here because he treats her well, or perhaps he would be a rebound.
    Exactly and if he could treat her well then what would be wrong with him pursuing it? Everyone deserves a happy relationship no?

    The problem is she may be in one of those abusive relationships that some women don't know how to get out of.
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  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by dinhosaur View Post
    Exactly and if he could treat her well then what would be wrong with him pursuing it? Everyone deserves a happy relationship no?

    The problem is she may be in one of those abusive relationships that some women don't know how to get out of.
    Moving in on her isn't necessarily the healthiest way to go about ending that relationship though. Talking with the two and being there for them as a friend will, in my opinion, benefit them all more in the long run. If that leads to the friend treating his girl better then awesome. It could also lead to the two breaking up, and then he can move in himself.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by False Hope View Post
    Moving in on her isn't necessarily the healthiest way to go about ending that relationship though. Talking with the two and being there for them as a friend will, in my opinion, benefit them all more in the long run. If that leads to the friend treating his girl better then awesome. It could also lead to the two breaking up, and then he can move in himself.
    Yea but you would need to know the exact nuances of the relationship tbh. Sometimes the only way to get a girl to leave a bad relationship is to show her a much better alternative.

    When they get belittled enough by an abusive bf often they don't think they deserve any better.
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  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by False Hope View Post
    -SOME- men and women can be friends. Honestly, I'm more comfortable around guys than I am most women. My best and longest friends are guys. Most of the girl friends I've had eventually proved themselves to be lying, dramatic, backstabbing jerks.
    Before you make any decisions you really need to weigh the pros and cons of any actions you may or may not make. If you make a move, you risk rejection (despite her being "into" you), and you risk not only the friend that she is involved with, but those in your circle. Moving into another friend's territory will lose you a lot of respect.
    Your friend has every right to feel a bit jealous. It's natural, whether you are making any interest in his girl obvious or not.
    My husband and I both have a lot of respect for our friends thanks to how they treat me. If any have an interest, they don't make a move. Even when we were dating, they respected our relationship. Had we broken up, I can name at least one that likely would have tried to move in.
    In my opinion, you should not try to steal her. Talking to her about your feelings might not be a bad idea, but I would confront your friend. You don't have to outright say you have feelings for his girlfriend, but you may want to explain that while the two of you are close, you are not going to cross that line out of respect for him. A dear friend of mine made that clear to my husband when he was getting jealous at one point, and it seemed to calm things a bit. If they break up, let a bit of time pass, keeping in touch with her of course, and then make a move.
    If he really isn't good for her, it's up to her to leave him, not for you to sweep her away. So long as she is in that relationship, it'll be tough to tell if she is worth losing your friends or not.
    I think she it's just like you, she doesn't really have any girl friends. I only know of one that she still talks to because she goes to school with her, other than that, all her other friends are guys. I really don't want to steal anybody from anyone, I don't like people to be angry with me, but something in the back of my head is telling me to stand up and do something about it. I really want to talk to my friend now, because I know even if he still resents me, I think he will trust me enough if I am straight forward.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dagny_Kiara View Post
    I don't care how cool the girl is, if you do this you are a crappy friend. If you're really Nick's friend why don't you be a "friend" and enlighten him how to better treat women, make a man out of him. I've been hit on by guys who are friends with the guy I'm dating, and if either you or Courtney goes for it, you, in my opinion, have a very questionable moral code and don't truly know what being a friend is. A friend doesn't sieze the opportunity to take something from another friend just because they can.

    Just my 2 cents.
    I'm glad to hear this from somebody else, because I honestly want to not hurt what they have. I don't want to be a bad friend; what scares me most is what would happen to my close circle of friends. I know I need to talk to him about it, but I can never get him alone to talk about it. I would never make a move if it compromised something that was there, but I have heard him talk about other girls when he was currently dating her.

    Quote Originally Posted by dinhosaur View Post
    It's not like he is sabotaging their relationship... he said that his guy friend treats her horribly... she may be one of those girls that gets chopped down by verbal abuse and then thinks of herself so poorly that she doesn't know how to escape the abusive relationship.

    I don't really know why anyone would try to be most considerate to a guy in a relationship if he was making it so unhealthy....
    It's nothing physical, and it's always stuff she has said to me. I don't know if she over exaggerates about stuff, but I don't want people to think that he is in any way harming her. He doesn't always say the right things, and he makes a lot of stupid comments (referring to how she looks or if she became fat or whatever) but it's something thats not unhealthy.

    I'm sorry if I confused you.
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  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sap View Post
    I think she it's just like you, she doesn't really have any girl friends. I only know of one that she still talks to because she goes to school with her, other than that, all her other friends are guys. I really don't want to steal anybody from anyone, I don't like people to be angry with me, but something in the back of my head is telling me to stand up and do something about it. I really want to talk to my friend now, because I know even if he still resents me, I think he will trust me enough if I am straight forward.



    I'm glad to hear this from somebody else, because I honestly want to not hurt what they have. I don't want to be a bad friend; what scares me most is what would happen to my close circle of friends. I know I need to talk to him about it, but I can never get him alone to talk about it. I would never make a move if it compromised something that was there, but I have heard him talk about other girls when he was currently dating her.



    It's nothing physical, and it's always stuff she has said to me. I don't know if she over exaggerates about stuff, but I don't want people to think that he is in any way harming her. He doesn't always say the right things, and he makes a lot of stupid comments (referring to how she looks or if she became fat or whatever) but it's something thats not unhealthy.

    I'm sorry if I confused you.
    Oh I never meant anything physical... if it was physical that guy should be thrown in jail.

    As I said before it's verbal... he is chopping her down hurting her self-esteem... which in reality is also pretty bad. When a guy criticizes a girl often enough it makes her feel inadequate and that she isn't good enough.
    Last edited by dinhosaur; 02-06-2011 at 06:39 PM.
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  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by dinhosaur View Post
    Yea but you would need to know the exact nuances of the relationship tbh. Sometimes the only way to get a girl to leave a bad relationship is to show her a much better alternative.

    When they get belittled enough by an abusive bf often they don't think they deserve any better.
    You make a good point, however pursuing her isn't the only way to show her an alternative. He can still let her know he is interested (through respectful conversation) and not ruin his friendship by holding back and letting her then make a decision on if she will be the one to pursue, or pass on the opportunity.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by dinhosaur View Post
    ...
    When they get belittled enough by an abusive bf often they don't think they deserve any better.
    Holy hell this.

    She has such low self confidence about herself. She's mentioned that even though Nick is a jerk she can't do any better.

    I didn't say anything then that other then try to make Nick sound like a nice guy, but she was very much depressed.

    Even her past bf's and her dad treat her bad.
    Last edited by Sap; 02-06-2011 at 06:41 PM.
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  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by False Hope View Post
    You make a good point, however pursuing her isn't the only way to show her an alternative. He can still let her know he is interested (through respectful conversation) and not ruin his friendship by holding back and letting her then make a decision on if she will be the one to pursue, or pass on the opportunity.
    Yea I already also suggested just being mature and open to her without pushing anything and letting her decide what she wants outta her life.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sap View Post
    Holy hell this.

    She has such low self confidence about herself. She's mentioned that even though Nick is a jerk she can't do any better.

    I didn't say anything then that other then try to make Nick sound like a nice guy, but she was very much depressed.
    The worst part about situations like this is that nick is basically harming her because of his own unhappiness with himself. He needs a verbal pin cushion because he feels better when he vents on someone else.

    I feel life is too short for that kinda stuff which is why if you think she is a fantastic girl and deserves better you shouldn't be afraid to show her there is a better world out there for her.
    Last edited by dinhosaur; 02-06-2011 at 06:42 PM.
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  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sap View Post
    I feel like I'm in over my head.
    You are. Accept it, and move forward.

    First things first, just by the way you are posting, you can tell you have an attraction to this girl, and want to pursue it further. Friends can tell that about other friends. You're friend Nick may be acting immature, but if your writing has revealed anything, it seems that it isn't a secret you like her. I guarantee you this is why he doesn't want you around and isn't too happy about what you're doing. If you didn't have those feelings about her and were legitimately hanging out to hang out, he probably would just have asked you what the deal was and left it at that.

    You need to ask yourself a few things that only you can answer, and that nobody on this forum will be able to resolve for you.

    1. How close were you and Nick?
    2. Who met this girl first, and if it was you, did your friend know you liked her?
    3. Who do you honestly feel is more important, Nick or Courtney?

    Comments on Question 1:

    If you weren't really close to Nick before this, it shouldn't come as a surprise he's got his back up, and you will have to deal with potentially getting into a fist-a-cuffs over it eventually. You also have to get that you don't know what happens behind closed doors. She could be unloading her issues about her relationship on you, but you may be a secret cause of a lot of their issues. I can bet if he's being so obvious about excluding you, that's come between them in their relationship. That means that whether you meant it or not, you doing what you are doing right now has come between them.

    You also say he mistreats her. How so? Is this a "there are two sides to every story" kind of deal, or is it blatant and public? You mentioned you don't hit her, which leads me to believe he may? If that's the case, are you trying to save this girl from your friend? Is he usually like that? If he is, why didn't you confront him as a friend about it? There are a lot of questions surrounding that as well.

    Comments on Question 2:

    Was he hers to begin with? If so, let the relationship run its course, and focus on your friendships first. If this girl is really as worth it as you may think, it will come full circle. And I know a lot of guys talk about how "girls and guys can't really be friends" but I disagree. Mainly because I have been friends with guys my whole life, many of the same guys in fact. There is no awkwardness, we are like siblings more than anything. And my fiance through dating me has befriended many of them. Not to mention, everyone is different. Not everyone fits into a box you can categorize. That being said, I have only ever dated guys in the "friend zone". Mainly because I can't bring myself to that level of intimacy without actually getting to know the person well. I've tried to not date people in the friend zone and it never ever worked for me. Friend zone guys are where my long-term relationships have been, and are also the ones who I'm still friends with. Some are married now, some are not, but knowing a guy before dating him was always the smart option for me personally.

    If this is a scenario of you liking the girl and him finding out - nabbing her - and you just dealing with it, then you need to sort that out with Nick before you explode. That's not cool, and I get how if you gave it a shot and failed at a relationship (or vice versa) then asking if Nick is okay with you pursuing a relationship after the dust has settled would be acceptable. But pursuing it while the relationship is still happening is not cool and will end up with you making an enemy, regardless of who the girl is. Even if she means nothing to him, it's a friendship ending move right there because it's a matter of respect.

    Comments on Question 3:

    This is a tough question, and one that usually only hindsight can answer. Whether this girl likes you or not, she's taken and needs to work on that. My mother told me once "never convince yourself it's okay to be a mistress. Because once the "wife" is out of the way, and you become the wife, who becomes the mistress?" My point is, if she is showing interest in you while dating Nick, how can you know beyond a shadow of a doubt that the same won't happen once you two start dating with some other guy? Some people do that, and depending on this girl's relationship list, you may want to ask yourself that. I'm not saying she's an a-moral jerk, I'm saying look before you leap on this one because you could end up losing more than Nick and Courtney over this, regardless of what people are telling you now. People can be sheep, and you may find yourself girl-less and friend-less depending on how this plays out. Remember that, and ask yourself if she's really worth it. If she isn't, at least you've got a friend. If you have her as a friend and can honestly %100 put all romantic ideas out of your mind, then you have nothing to be ashamed of, and your friend if he is a real friend will sit down and talk to you about it one on one. Clearing the air between you and your buddy Nick is extremely important, no matter how it turns out or what you decide to do.

    Anyway, just my opinion. I don't know you, or Nick, or Courtney, so my advice is based on the information you've given me, mixed with personal observations, ideals and experiences. Good luck to you either way and let us know how it turns out!
    Last edited by AbstractAngel; 02-06-2011 at 06:46 PM.

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