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Thread: Anyone want to talk DnD?

  1. #1
    Plane Touched Lepus_Iscariot's Avatar
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    Default Anyone want to talk DnD?

    So .... 4th edition. I know it has been out for ages, but I thought maybe we could get a discussion going as I've been playing it for awhile now.

    1. I know I could go back to any edition before it.
    2. It is a fact that they were heavily influenced by WoW, who was in turn heavily influenced by DnD, who were both heavily influenced by Tolkien. It is also a fact that WotC was trying to release an edition that catered toward the MMO market, for better or worse, and based alot of their new design around WoW artwork. I mean, I ran across an item called Tauren Shield. I know that that doesn't definitely mean they had WoW in mind, but it certainly feels like they did.
    3. I realize that your DM and the players involvement make a a world of difference, but at the same time, there is still the core rules of the world that you exist in.

    OK, here is my beef with the game at the moment. The fluidity that once existed between role playing, combat, and playing in a city was completely removed. It feels like every time we go from one to another that we are literally loading a zone because we have to set up grids, miniatures, etc. I realize we could play without the grid / miniatures, but with all the knock backs, pulls, shifts, burst 5s, and so on, it isn't that easy.

    Skills are not as well defined, and it feels like since my character is "streetwise" that I am automatically an expert on such a large array of things that it makes it seem unrealistic ... and believe me, the irony of making that statement about a world where Fairies exist is not lost on me. Also, why does everyone know what a magical item is on a role of 10+ ... it makes no sense.

    Finally, and probably my biggest problem with the game, and the hardest to explain, is that the physical reality of what your character is imagined to be doing does not directly correlate to roleplaying anymore. Let me expand on this since it is something that I struggle to explain. In 3.5 lets say I have three attacks, when explaining making these attacks, I could both imagine and verbalize how my character was moving, swinging a sword, or using his environment creatively and constructively. This act was then realized or not realized by the role of the dice. In 4.0, not only is the physical explanation of every act described for you in the description of the power, but to imagine these powers in a creative way is neigh impossible because each one involves a specific physical act that has no creative flexibility.

    Anyone else have this feeling, or want to expand on it?

    I know, it is a little convoluted, but what I am trying to explain is not as simple as "i can't swing a sword anymore." I know I can ... I don't know why you would want to, but I realize that option is still there.

    Also, I'd like to add that there are a lot of things I like about 4.0 ... for instance, Wizards are not useless at lvl 1, they fixed grappling, and so on.

    Healing surges are neat, and I think a good mechanic, but the way they explained them and implemented them is quite poor. The idea that you regain a percentage of your HP is a little counter to immersion / fantasy reality. I do, though, think it is a neat direction to go in for healing purposes.

  2. #2
    Plane Touched ryashani's Avatar
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    Its been 15 years since I actually played DnD (though I played for 15 years prior to that). Out of the blue my BF (who used to play about 20 years ago) said maybe we should play again. So I contacted a friend who is a DM, talked a couple of other former gamers into it and we decided we would go for it.

    Went out and got 4th edition. It was SO different than anything I had ever seen before that I didnt even know what to think. My BF looked it through and said "heck, its like playing WoW". It think alot of the creativity on the players part is removed from the new edition some how. I had read a review before buying the book that said the new edition was a simplification of the old system, but I found it to be the exact opposite.

    Needless to say, when we do play, it will be based on 3rd or 2nd edition instead (much to the relief of the guy that was going to DM) ;-)

  3. #3
    Plane Touched Lepus_Iscariot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryashani View Post
    Its been 15 years since I actually played DnD (though I played for 15 years prior to that). Out of the blue my BF (who used to play about 20 years ago) said maybe we should play again. So I contacted a friend who is a DM, talked a couple of other former gamers into it and we decided we would go for it.

    Went out and got 4th edition. It was SO different than anything I had ever seen before that I didnt even know what to think. My BF looked it through and said "heck, its like playing WoW". It think alot of the creativity on the players part is removed from the new edition some how. I had read a review before buying the book that said the new edition was a simplification of the old system, but I found it to be the exact opposite.

    Needless to say, when we do play, it will be based on 3rd or 2nd edition instead (much to the relief of the guy that was going to DM) ;-)
    I would suggest going to a used bookstore, like Half-Priced Books, and picking up the core books for 3.5. It was probably the pinnacle system, although it had its flaws.

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    Plane Touched ryashani's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lepus_Iscariot View Post
    I would suggest going to a used bookstore, like Half-Priced Books, and picking up the core books for 3.5. It was probably the pinnacle system, although it had its flaws.
    I will do that! I think the DM has those already, but (as I said before) I've been out of the loop. If those are the best I will certainly look for them :-)

  5. #5
    Plane Touched CHIMPNOODLE's Avatar
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    Can always E-Bay for em too.

    I always played and stuck to the first edition. Was always fun so never felt the urge to change anything

  6. #6
    Soulwalker
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    1 - I'm sticking with a mix of 3/3.5 not liking the way skills work in 4 - but thats just me
    2 - i was the other way round originally and Sam Wise did a load of Artwork for WotC BEFORE WoW.
    3 - the world is governed by the DM but the physics side was always based on rules so we all knew where we were... can you tell I got annoyed very early on reading the 4th Ed rules?

    They've vamped the rules for the first time in ages and they've basically done D&D on easy for the MMO 'kiddies' ( kiddies I mean the people who play and want to WIN all the time just because they're in the game!) that whine about it being to hard .. ( now I sound mean ... ah well)

    I don't like the in 5 secs I can use this skill or ability - oh i need to use this cause i can do it 5 times per combat.. its not letting you decide or think about what skills you have and what they can do - its kinda done for you and OVER generalised

    rant over -
    Hi nice to meet you all

  7. #7
    Shadowlander
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    Wink

    I recommend watching this movie
    The Gamers
    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0369445/

    it is priceless

  8. #8
    Shadowlander
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    My major problem iwth 4th edition is the bosses are too easy to beat down. They have to do something about the number of stins and interrupts a party can place on a boss.

    I also think the game is rather generic. Hence easier to balance but lacking somehow in the old flavour that made it great. The thing that made campaigns go on for years and feel epic. The sense of power you had in the older campaigns at higher level also seemed more epic to me.

  9. #9
    Soulwalker manwich's Avatar
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    having played both 4.0 and 3.5, I much prefer 4.0

    The rules are a million times easier to understand, because they are concrete. In 3.5, you had so many exceptions, and so many unnecessary, more specific names for things.

    In previous editions, RNG reigned supreme. It didn't matter how well your character was built. your AC could be 35 higher than the attack bonus of your enemy, but if you roll a 2 and he rolls a 19, guess what. He hits you. There is no reliabiity at all, and it ruined games. It was far too easy to tpk your players because the RNG was out of control. Additionally, it was way too easy to make absurdly broken characters and absurdly underpowered characters. This not only affected gameplay, but made one person in your group cocky, and the other feel totally insignificant and worthless. 4.0 is so deeply rooted in balance, that it will be fun no matter how you want to flavor your character and play.

    From a balance-obsessed person who

    And I don't think that roleplaying has suffered at all. There is still a mechanical way to do something, with a good DM.

    In 3.5, this is how dungeons would work. *does spell to find out where a person is* "Cool, now we know that the evil villain is in the dungeon below the city." "Yes, but the cave system is very extensive, and will take a while to traverse the maze below" "Yeah, right! I'll just go directly to him. Shape stone. Shape Stone. Shape stone (in the direction of the enemy, which can be perceived with a spell or item).

    Then they proceed to use other ridiculous, overpowered toolsets to kill said villain before it can act.Yay!

  10. #10
    Sword of Telara kegkiller's Avatar
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    *digs thought the book case and finds his Full collection of 1.0 signed plus the fiend folio and day dreams*

  11. #11
    Rift Master Sinistrad's Avatar
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    RIght now the best thing for 3.5'ers out there is Pathfinder. Look it up! It basically replaces (but not quite) the Player's Handbook. The best part is, because it's based on 3.5, if you don't like a certain change, just ignore it. In 4th edition you can't do that.

    4th Edition and the mind from which it spawned can kiss my *** I'll never touch it.

    "That is not dead which can eternal lie. And with strange aeons even death may die."
    --H.P. Lovecraft

  12. #12
    Telaran DigitalNomad's Avatar
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    Reading through this I keep thinking about this Penny-Arcade comic:

    http://art.penny-arcade.com/photos/9...05_WsMkV-L.jpg

    Being an old school DnD player who has introduced many people to the game over the years, I've seen this very effect.

  13. #13
    Plane Touched Quintana's Avatar
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    I have a near mint copy of deities and demigods with the melnibonean mythos and various other straight out stolen material in it. Anyone else have a first edition Deities and Demigods?

    I hold that book and cry when I think of the travesty that 4.0 is.

  14. #14
    Soulwalker TheGnome's Avatar
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    We play 3.5 here, though we still have some very old stuff hanging around still. We also have books for 4th, when we want to do something else (also have lots of miniatures to abuse). Play what you like and brings you entertainment!

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