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Thread: So you think Rift is P2W and Trion is Evil? Check out Eastern MMO business models

  1. #1
    Ascendant DarkDaemon's Avatar
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    Default So you think Rift is P2W and Trion is Evil? Check out Eastern MMO business models

    http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1016417/-100-000-Whales-An

    I first saw this video a couple of years ago. I had played one of R2's games (magic barrage) and the sheer spending potential was terrifying. You could literally sink hundreds of thousands into the game and not finish buying. The monetization of the game back then was crude (and the whale catching aspects didn't really show on our tiny server), but it was still a scary window into the world of eastern style MMOs and their monetization models.

    Silver tier loyalty costs $8000 to get? That's child's play compared to the highest VIP ranks in some games.
    Last edited by DarkDaemon; 10-19-2015 at 10:39 PM.

  2. #2
    Plane Touched fibes's Avatar
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    It's rare for me to feel sick to my stomach while listening to someone speak.
    I had to stop 1/2 way in.
    The man sounds like a drug dealer.

    I refuse to believe that type of human filth exists anywhere at Trion.
    Last edited by fibes; 10-26-2015 at 05:07 PM.

  3. #3
    Shadowlander Reishawastaken's Avatar
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    Default Not at all

    Rift is absolutely not pay to win, if you pay you will advance quite fast, but with time and dedication even completely 100% F2P accounts can get their silver loyalty tear, and you can also get the souls and everything with time, but by all means if you can pay for items you're just helping the game and there is nothing wrong with it
    I've returned from the grave and yet we can't still have nice things on Rift

  4. #4
    Plane Walker Hectyr's Avatar
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    Default define "P2W"

    I have few issues with Trion utilizing a variety of methods to encourage revenue generation from the playerbase- they are a business and revenue generation is one of the goals associated with running a business.

    However, those who claim "Rift isn't/wasn't/has never been P2W" certainly don't share the definition of "P2W" that myself and many others share.

    Rift- like most mmos- focus on providing a positive player experience based on progression. Sure, some small victories and losses may be included in the experience (warfront victories, raid boss progression, fulfilling a rift event requirement, etc) but the standard overall experience of the mmo is to reinforce the positive progression (in terms of attributes and gear) of the character/s owned by the player.

    What if the same scenario applied to a similar event- a marathon- for example?

    What if the Boston Marathon provided the opportunity for a 5 mile taxicab ride- provided by a cash sum- that resulted in one who utilized such service as crossing the finish line first? Most would certainly agree that this would constitute a "P2W" scenario, right?

    Yet if "Player X" failed to secure a raid spot simply because "Mr Whale" garnered the required hit gear immediately by means of credit card purchases and provided a more attractive addition to the raid in question- none would consider this P2Win?

    Sure, "Player X" will most likely get the opportunity later by gaining similar gear through gameplay- but then again, most marathon runners will be provided to cross the finish line as well- just much later than those who have access to advantages like skipping a five mile span. Plus, in mmos such as Rift, there are certain benefits associated with engaging in content while new & fresh.

    Like I stated previously, I have no problem with Trion trying to generate revenue- its the player's choice as to contribute or not.

    But it IS a "P2W" scenario.


    TL/DR: Rift is based on progression- progression to a specific goal is the only true way to constitute a true "win". Therefore, logic contends that being able to purchase more speedy progression constitutes a "Pay to Win" scenario.
    Last edited by Hectyr; 10-25-2015 at 08:08 PM.

  5. #5
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    Not saying I like how Chinese gaming companies does it... but there's a reason why some multi-billion game companies are so successful when 80% of their offerings are straight up P2W. eg Mmorpgs will have double damage potion purchasable cash only, and FPS will have "headshot flasks".

    EA is so dirty but they can probably buy out trion 200 times over...

    Sure heavy p2w will probably not work well in US or EU, but many companies/game fail even if they DON'T p2w... besides many westerners will ***** for the smallest investment.

    Remember all those WTF I need 1250 loyalty ($5 or half of a rex) to have LIFETIME ACCESS to Auction House and some other perks in Rift? F U trion DIRTY MONEY GRAB posts? I do.

    While I don't like how Trion's way of monetization strategy recently... it's also kinda sad that company like Trion which is probably better than even the most popular Chinese game companies (those billion dollar worth ones)... yet Trion is just "hanging in there" while the Chinese companies swimming in cash... With those Chinese players shelling out over 100,000 USD in 6 months while we QQ about $5 for a lifetime access to some essential perks.
    Last edited by FateStayNight; 10-26-2015 at 04:02 AM.

  6. #6
    Plane Walker Narielia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hectyr View Post
    TL/DR: Rift is based on progression- progression to a specific goal is the only true way to constitute a true "win". Therefore, logic contends that being able to purchase more speedy progression constitutes a "Pay to Win" scenario.
    You assume too much.

    "being able to" =/= "having to"

    Just because I can, doesn't mean I am.

    Rift is not P2W, unless you want it to be.

    From another angle: It is unreasonable to claim that Rift is P2W, when you don't have to P2W. It's just what you make it out to be.
    Last edited by Narielia; 10-26-2015 at 02:09 PM.
    "When the last tree is cut, the last fish is caught, and the last river is polluted; when to breathe the air is sickening, you will realize, too late, that wealth is not in bank accounts and that you cant eat money."

  7. #7
    Rift Chaser Riftologist's Avatar
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    The video is informative. Jared Psigoda seems like a nice enough fellow who simply enjoys gaming and wants to make money doing what he loves. Nothing wrong with that.

    Rift isn't P2W and Trion is a great company that doesn't exist for our benefit. The goal is to create a product and/or gaming experience that meets or exceeds customer expectations -and- profit handsomely in the process.

    "Players should feel they are enhancing their stats/equipment to progress further in the game, not progressing in the game to enhance their equipment." Totally agree with this statement but I'd gladly fork over $100.00 for stealth detection.
    Who is John Galt?

  8. #8
    Plane Touched fibes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riftologist View Post
    The video is informative. Jared Psigoda seems like a nice enough fellow who simply enjoys gaming and wants to make money doing what he loves. Nothing wrong with that.
    10 years in the gold farming business
    Moves on to create high quantity, low quality F2P browser games
    Analyzes how to exploit and monetize off of addictive behavior
    Elaborate and complex money pits constituting a great game
    Complete disregard for the art of game design

    Truly a treasure to the world of gaming.
    Needs more BRAAAGH!!

  9. #9
    Champion of Telara Nnnxia's Avatar
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    Default

    Ever heard of Archeage?

  10. #10
    Rift Disciple Cookiez217's Avatar
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    REX = Everything is F2P no longer applies to EU now.

    F2P Plat Cap = 2500p

    REX on EU average sale = 2900-3200p

    Conclusion: You either buy at least one REX or hope someone charitably gives you a REX out of the goodness of their own heart.

    Since the second one looks like a long shot, you can pretty much see why this game is no longer 100% F2P. But to be fair I see no reason to be 100% F2P since you should show some appreciation for the devs and having the actual game's majority content being F2P is reason enough to be pleased. Not to mention being 100% F2P means devs earn a lot less money so the game people keep whining about is going to die because of that.
    Last edited by Cookiez217; 10-27-2015 at 06:16 AM.

  11. #11
    Ascendant Violacea's Avatar
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    Glad I didn't have to spend $10 for the Master Sword in Legend of Zelda: Link to the Past. Then another $20 for the Dark World expansion. Though unfortunately I had to actually find a few items, instead of buying the Ice Rod, Magic Cape, Ether Medallion etc, for $8 each.

    I can't believe how jaded I was to actually enjoy a full blown game only wearing a total of THREE different costumes, with nothing more than a color swap on each - green, blue, red, whoopie. Where was my Link bathing suit and business suit? I can't beat the speed run times though because I refuse to pay $15 for 10% faster Pegasus Boots. To top it off. I HAD TO WALK ALL THE WAY TO THE MAGIC SHOP TO GET A HEALTH POTION. WHY COULDN'T I JUST USE A CREDIT CARD VIA A POP-UP WINDOW?

    On a side note, who remembers when a large share of video games were not absolutely idiotic?
    Last edited by Violacea; 10-27-2015 at 06:21 AM.
    New round up of some high rank matches
    Chun-Li*E.Honda*Evil Ryu
    Abel*Ibuki*Dhalsim
    Gouken*Zangief*Ryu

  12. #12
    Telaran
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    rift has an awosmoe F2P model.

    i remember 4months ago while searching for a new mmo, i heard good things about rift and how it had the "best F2P model"

    i started playing without thinking about paying, i bought 5 dollar credits to use the AH because i was too lazy and thought the game had potential. then i just farmed and sold stuff and ended buying the nightmare tide expansion with plat.
    later i got the dream soul pack with plat too.
    i started liking the game so i bought the other pack with money. i got some minion slots with REXs.
    now im at the point where there is not much i "should" buy to improve my performance/progress.
    i dont buy fluff at all.
    i dont even find patron necesary, the second month playing i bought it to boost my marks farming. But then i learnt about raiding, just by raiding each week i get more than enough equip so i dont farm for marks (which is too time consuming).

    ive been playing just 4months. if you are patient and enjoy the game you can just buy everything you think necesary with platinum.

  13. #13
    Ascendant Violacea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkDaemon View Post
    but it was still a scary window into the world of eastern style MMOs and their monetization models.

    Silver tier loyalty costs $8000 to get? That's child's play compared to the highest VIP ranks in some games.
    Ya I know second post. This is a scary look into what the gaming industry is moving closer to closer to across all genres. They realized it is a gimmick that works and are working it as hard as some can. The fact that $8000 can be viewed as childs play to begin with is sickening. I am sorry but, I hear of people who pay that sort of cash on Rift. You know there are like, decent used Nissan 350z sports cars for 12 - 14k. Congrats on a video game potentially allowing you to pay half of what a used sports car does. The option should just not exist.

    "Gaming is so much better now than it was in the 90's when all content came with the initial $20 - $50 purchase." -Said no gamer ever. I just don't get it. I don't get why people feed it. Yes it is executed because it is a corporate idea. But it remains because gamers. Weee, gamers screwed their own selves. So freaking awesome.
    New round up of some high rank matches
    Chun-Li*E.Honda*Evil Ryu
    Abel*Ibuki*Dhalsim
    Gouken*Zangief*Ryu

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