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Thread: Elder Scrolls Online Keep Assault

  1. #31
    Prophet of Telara Muffinmans's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brodian View Post
    I tried eso last 3 betas, but tbh I cant stand the combat system. Graphics is awesome tough.
    But I couldn't make it further than lvl4. I was so excepting this game, because I like elder scrolls series and so disappointed in rift atm. But looking forward more test events, maybe it can catch me finally.
    The combat is incredibly shallow at level 4. I have been in the beta since June of last year, and I could never get my self past level 4-5 with each beta. It was just so boring, and I felt limited and bored by the combat. It wasn't until lately that I pushed myself to give it a real shot, and as soon as I got to level ~6, the gameplay got challenging, I had to manage my dodge and block and I realized how deep the combat system is.

    Once you get around level 6, you get 5 abilities, + an ultimate and your block and normal attack (at 15 you get a whole other set). You have 3 skill lines + ability lines for each weapon, armor set and guild. Each skill line and each ability in each skill line can be leveled up and morphed to add more stats or special abilities like healing or stunning or an Area of Effect. You can also wear any armor set and wield any weapon and you get to choose whether you want more health, mana, or stamina when you level. It really is complete customization of the like I haven't seen before.

    You really have to get past level 5 (get to at least 10) before you decide if you like the game.
    Quote Originally Posted by Daglar View Post
    As for folks calling me a carebear, I've got 99 problems and being a carebear ain't one son. I've done far more than my share of virtual murder over the years. I've been part of alliances that have so heavily destabilized server balance in games that the other sides ceased to log in due to being so massively dominated.

  2. #32
    Ascendant Laeris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khelendross View Post
    PVP in TESO is amazing. Its better designed as a system than GW2 and the closest we've seen to DAOC since...well DAOC. But there is one huge problem with TESO. The combat is godawful. I'm sorry but I will not pay a sub for the absolutely atrocious combat in that game. That's why a lot of people are raging on TESO. It does a lot of other things right, great graphics, well optimized, immersive world. But combat is huge. If your combat is terrible your game is not going to survive. I was an alpha tester and I told them this test after test but mark my words, its going to be their downfall. The siege in this game is exactly what Conquest should be but isn't remotely close to being. Daglar's silly comment about banging on keep doors is quickly disproven here. They spend about a minute on that door after the ram gets dropped.

    And this is the way pvp is going, it depresses me that Rift has nothing remotely like this because Rifts other strengths would make it unstoppable as far as large scale pvp and rift's techno steampunk vibe would make for some really interesting variants on the typical siege warfare engines.
    If it bombs like you say it will... PvP will not be going this way. Remember: GW2, TESO, L2, Aion and Warhammer Online all had online sieges and ALL of them are dismal failures in terms of PvP activity (Save for TESO which is yet to be seen). If they keep failing, they'll stop making them.

    Again, they're not failing because they're bad systems. I firmly believe PvP players actually do not like PvP and use things like this as scapegoats. The instant you level a playing field that forces people to fight on an equal footing over objectives... it causes PvPers to rage because it goes beyond corpse camping and lowbie ganking.

    Not all PvPers are this way but when a large amount of them are... all it takes is a good 1/4 to up and quit then the rest of them are like herd lemmings and start bailing in like kind because someone's friend's guildmate's brother quit.

  3. #33
    Champion Lonyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laeris View Post
    If it bombs like you say it will... PvP will not be going this way. Remember: GW2, TESO, L2, Aion and Warhammer Online all had online sieges and ALL of them are dismal failures in terms of PvP activity (Save for TESO which is yet to be seen). If they keep failing, they'll stop making them.

    Again, they're not failing because they're bad systems. I firmly believe PvP players actually do not like PvP and use things like this as scapegoats. The instant you level a playing field that forces people to fight on an equal footing over objectives... it causes PvPers to rage because it goes beyond corpse camping and lowbie ganking.

    Not all PvPers are this way but when a large amount of them are... all it takes is a good 1/4 to up and quit then the rest of them are like herd lemmings and start bailing in like kind because someone's friend's guildmate's brother quit.
    A lot of People dislike PvP because they are not very good at it.

    ESO combat is different to other MMO's combat and can get a bit of getting use to, there are a lot of passive skills which you beed to put skill points in which really makes you powerful (this is different from any other MMO I have played). There are racial aboilities that give you increase powers again you can put points into these which are really powerful.

    You can use any weapon you find but you have to skill up the abilities in each weapon skill again you can put skill points into these.

    Because you need a lot of skill points you need to play the game to get to at least level 10 when the game changes dramatically. There is also over 300 skyshards to find which would give you over 100 skill points extra over and above leveling skill points.
    Last edited by Lonyn; 03-07-2014 at 01:56 AM.

  4. #34
    Ascendant Laeris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lonyn View Post
    A lot of People dislike PvP because they are not very good at it.

    ESO combat is different to other MMO's combat and can get a bit of getting use to, there are a lot of passive skills which you beed to put skill points in which really makes you powerful (this is different from any other MMO I have played). There are racial aboilities that give you increase powers again you can put points into these which are really powerful.

    You can use any weapon you find but you have to skill up the abilities in each weapon skill again you can put skill points into these.

    Because you need a lot of skill points you need to play the game to get to at least level 10 when the game changes dramatically. There is also over 300 skyshards to find which would give you over 100 skill points extra over and above leveling skill points.
    I'm talking about PvP in general... in any game by the die-hard pvp fanbase. Just look at the comments on game forums. If you believed them all at face value... nearly every game has lousy PvP, the devs don't care about them, classes are bad or imbalanced, animations are bad, guards in pvp zones are bad, no guards is bad, items are OP, classes are OP and so on.

    One thing you are hard pressed to find are things like: "Team from XYZ guild... good God you guys are good. We'll get you next time!" No, you have stuff like, "Joe from XYZ is a GD exploiter! There's no way he can stun me every time I get ready to use my (insert powerful ability here). This goes further towards things like, "Rez camping is BS. It makes me want to quit!" Then, a few weeks later... same poster will post, "Devs don't care about PvP. They put guards in pvp zones! THIS IS KILLING PVP!!!"

    Now, on the above... I used to have a morbid obsession when working at this one company where I would see someone post something about guards then search their post history and go to the beginning. I don't know the scientific results but I'd say >70% of them were the same ones complaining about getting ganked at low level on an open pvp server. Now, a very short time later they would start complaining about our fix to the issue (that being to put guards in safe zones near quest hubs so people couldn't be ganked during cutscenes). These same people who were complaining about being ganked were in fact lowbie bashing and complaining now that they couldn't do it too.

    This is the mindset of the plain old average PvP do0d on a PvP server. There's people who are in no way like this and there are people who are much worse. It's just been my experience that many PvPers aren't in an MMO for the competition. They play only to kill people. Getting killed is not an option and when they do get killed (by other players or by NPC guards), they start making QQ posts on the forums.

    In my opinion, the best PvP games are usually the ones like EVE that illicit the most vitriol from these types of players. Candyland, carebear rulesets like what Rift has are a wonderland for QQ happy griefer kids. When you put those same kids into EVE (you know, the ones who troll global about how they just wreckT some baddie every 2 minutes), they lose their minds. This is because like usual, they run their mouths then when they do get killed... instead of rezzing and coming back for more... they lose all their possessions and means to fight back until they replace it. This makes it blatantly obvious that they did in fact lose and there's even a publicly available killmail that tells everyone in the entire world that they just got blown up by Stevie McWheezie. These types of games are "good" because they're balanced and purely skill/ability based where living or dying is completely under a player's control. Therefore, when someone dies... there's a penalty for failure and everyone is on a relatively level playing field (or at least afforded the ability to be level given skill and know-how limits are met). It's very hard to uneven the field with exploits or special rare gear.... because even the good people get killed and that good gear gets blown up in the process. Therefore there are nomust-have uber gear BiS PvP sets to make yourself untouchable. These people don't like that they can't twink... awwww poor fellas!

    I find that a lot of people just can't handle the dying part of PvP. Killing... everyone likes to win but this new generation of gamers have -serious- issues with losing. That's why all the devs suck, the games suck, the maps suck, the loot sucks, the blahblahblah always sucks. Oh, and don't forget the most used excuse ever: "OMG LAG WTF!"

    There are a lot of great PvP games out there... but they all suck according to many PvPers. The real reason is they can't quit understand that there are other people playing in PvP games and when 2 people fight,1 of them will die. The one who dies quit often gets killed for a reason of their own doing and it has nothing to do with Daglar's bias against Bahmi chloromancers or NERF ROGUES.
    Last edited by Laeris; 03-08-2014 at 03:03 AM.

  5. #35
    Ascendant Baramos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muffinmans View Post
    The combat is incredibly shallow at level 4. I have been in the beta since June of last year, and I could never get my self past level 4-5 with each beta. It was just so boring, and I felt limited and bored by the combat. It wasn't until lately that I pushed myself to give it a real shot, and as soon as I got to level ~6, the gameplay got challenging, I had to manage my dodge and block and I realized how deep the combat system is.

    Once you get around level 6, you get 5 abilities, + an ultimate and your block and normal attack (at 15 you get a whole other set). You have 3 skill lines + ability lines for each weapon, armor set and guild. Each skill line and each ability in each skill line can be leveled up and morphed to add more stats or special abilities like healing or stunning or an Area of Effect. You can also wear any armor set and wield any weapon and you get to choose whether you want more health, mana, or stamina when you level. It really is complete customization of the like I haven't seen before.

    You really have to get past level 5 (get to at least 10) before you decide if you like the game.
    As you probably already know, the newest build that wasn't tested last week but being tested by the regular full time testers has faster leveling at the early levels and the ability to skip the starter island. This will change a lot of people's thoughts and early impressions on the game who wrote it off without giving it a real chance because they gave up so fast.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laeris View Post
    If it bombs like you say it will... PvP will not be going this way. Remember: GW2, TESO, L2, Aion and Warhammer Online all had online sieges and ALL of them are dismal failures in terms of PvP activity (Save for TESO which is yet to be seen). If they keep failing, they'll stop making them.

    Again, they're not failing because they're bad systems. I firmly believe PvP players actually do not like PvP and use things like this as scapegoats. The instant you level a playing field that forces people to fight on an equal footing over objectives... it causes PvPers to rage because it goes beyond corpse camping and lowbie ganking.

    Not all PvPers are this way but when a large amount of them are... all it takes is a good 1/4 to up and quit then the rest of them are like herd lemmings and start bailing in like kind because someone's friend's guildmate's brother quit.
    PVP was not really the problem with any of those games. And for the record GW2 has one of the largest active game populations so its not by any means a failure. Only in your own mind because it suits your argument.

    I can't speak to Aion cause I played it for about 2 days and quickly realized it was way to grindy for me. I played a Korean MMO for 8 years, I wasn't about to go back to that. But Aion was popular and did well for a long time. So again your argument falls down. TESO isn't out yet.

    Warhammer had fantastic pvp but one of the worst optimized engines ever seen in a MMO. People say Rift has poor optimization. You guys have no idea. It also had absolutely horrible class balance. But the pvp systems in place were terrific and in fact Warhammer proved to be a inspiration for many MMOs that came after like Rift and GW2 with their dynamic events system.

    L2 I can't speak to.

    So all you have told me, same thing you have always told me, is that you twist facts to support what you want to say.
    Planar Breach Support Open World PVP and PVE!
    Sourcewell and PVP Rift Objective Based PVP A more resource efficient way of adding Open World Objective based PVP!
    Ember Isle Open World Style PVP Repurposing Lets do something with this amazing zone!

  7. #37
    Ascendant Laeris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khelendross View Post
    PVP was not really the problem with any of those games. And for the record GW2 has one of the largest active game populations so its not by any means a failure. Only in your own mind because it suits your argument.

    I can't speak to Aion cause I played it for about 2 days and quickly realized it was way to grindy for me. I played a Korean MMO for 8 years, I wasn't about to go back to that. But Aion was popular and did well for a long time. So again your argument falls down. TESO isn't out yet.

    Warhammer had fantastic pvp but one of the worst optimized engines ever seen in a MMO. People say Rift has poor optimization. You guys have no idea. It also had absolutely horrible class balance. But the pvp systems in place were terrific and in fact Warhammer proved to be a inspiration for many MMOs that came after like Rift and GW2 with their dynamic events system.

    L2 I can't speak to.

    So all you have told me, same thing you have always told me, is that you twist facts to support what you want to say.
    I guess mine and your definitions of popular and doing well differ wildly. GW2's PvP has been panned upside and down the other by most gaming sites. I personally like it but most players generally don't. Warhammer was so successful that it lost 70% of its playerbase in 3 months and ultimately closed. Aion followed similar results except they fired the NA dev team and made it F2P just to milk subs off of a couple of leftover servers.

    I don't make arguments for or against the quality of PvP systems. Those are subjective... however what I do look at is participation levels and state of health of the game. GW2 is not really PvP centric. Most of the game's content is PvE with optional PvP. Warhammer and Aion were PvP centric. In order to progress in both of those games, you had to PvP. In GW2, you can never PvP if you like and still max out your character. In Aion... nope. The best items were limited to realm score.

  8. #38
    Ascendant Baramos's Avatar
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    Love it or hate it, ESO will be Beta Testing again this weekend. I will be recording again so hopefully can come up with some decent footage.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baramos View Post
    Love it or hate it, ESO will be Beta Testing again this weekend. I will be recording again so hopefully can come up with some decent footage.
    Have they mailed you a new key?

    I'm gonna be busy all the coming weekend. Absolutely gutted I was hanging out for another jam after last one!

    “There is no greater danger than underestimating your opponent.” - Laozi

  10. #40
    Ascendant Baramos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StateOfUnrest View Post
    Have they mailed you a new key?
    No but the initial key that I received back in September has worked ever since.
    Last edited by Baramos; 03-11-2014 at 06:08 AM.

  11. #41
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    I like it so far. Its not perfect by no means but it is still fun and interesting.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laeris View Post
    If it bombs like you say it will... PvP will not be going this way. Remember: GW2, TESO, L2, Aion and Warhammer Online all had online sieges and ALL of them are dismal failures in terms of PvP activity (Save for TESO which is yet to be seen). If they keep failing, they'll stop making them.
    Matter of opinion, I guess. Warhammer Online was some of the best PvP I've ever played. And GW2 is a failure???! WAT

    Also, why not mention DAoC if you're talking about siege warfare in PvP? DAoC was the best PvP I've ever played.

    Also, just looking around is the release date for ESO still April 4th? Or am I looking at old info?
    Last edited by Indasoth; 03-11-2014 at 08:38 AM.

  13. #43
    Ascendant Indasoth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laeris View Post
    I guess mine and your definitions of popular and doing well differ wildly. GW2's PvP has been panned upside and down the other by most gaming sites. I personally like it but most players generally don't. Warhammer was so successful that it lost 70% of its playerbase in 3 months and ultimately closed. Aion followed similar results except they fired the NA dev team and made it F2P just to milk subs off of a couple of leftover servers.

    I don't make arguments for or against the quality of PvP systems. Those are subjective... however what I do look at is participation levels and state of health of the game. GW2 is not really PvP centric. Most of the game's content is PvE with optional PvP. Warhammer and Aion were PvP centric. In order to progress in both of those games, you had to PvP. In GW2, you can never PvP if you like and still max out your character. In Aion... nope. The best items were limited to realm score.
    I think this is a pretty stereotypical case of choosing games that you feel fit your argument. 50% of the games you picked did quite well. Warhammer lasted over 5 years. Is that forever, but you'd make it seem like it was an awful failure 3 months in - when it had a relatively large active PvP population for years. TESO isn't out yet, so not even taking you seriously there.

    I think I'll choose to not listen to your posts. You don't seem to make much sense (no offense).

  14. #44
    Ascendant Baramos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Indasoth View Post

    Also, just looking around is the release date for ESO still April 4th? Or am I looking at old info?
    04/04/14 for regular copies and 5 days early access for the Imperial Edition which is the end of March.

  15. #45
    Ascendant Indasoth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baramos View Post
    04/04/14 for regular copies and 5 days early access for the Imperial Edition which is the end of March.
    Thanks for that. Will pre-order the Imperial.

    On a side note, am I reading this right? There's no floating combat text in ESO?

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