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Thread: Current MMO Model Fundamentally Flawed

  1. #16
    Rift Disciple Practicelap's Avatar
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    While the OP's description is a well put together and thought out presentation, I still wouldn't agree personally, because of my like for RPGs in the traditional sense.

    RIFT and these other games are not just MMOs. These games are MMO-RPGs or MMO-FPS etc. If you take all the RPG genre aspects out of an MMORPG, you end up with a game like The Sims. Once you get rid of the RPG aspect, you will find that a lot of others will just move on and play a more traditional RPG.

    I get that many people do not like the "grind". That's a valid dislike in an MMORPG, but that's part of the nature of an RPG, regardless of the implementation. That is one of the sole reasons MMORPG games have "Role Playing" servers.

    I understand how you feel about RIFT, but if that was done, I would personally leave and find something else to play other than a Massive Multiplayer Dress Up Dolly game.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pallydrome View Post
    Guild Wars 2 says "Hi."
    meh, temporary events every second week with achievements you have to stress to get
    no thanks

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aethel View Post
    Firstly:
    I also understand that you may not like, or may not think that some of the ideas would work. I am not interested in being told this.!
    well too bad, you are going to be told anyway, your ideas are terrible and would not work, not if you expect the game to be played by anyone semi sane
    Quote Originally Posted by Frailaq View Post

    tl;dr - Trion should do this: Melee = Turret Ranged > Mobile Ranged

  4. #19
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    Lololol. I like how EVERY SINGLE REPLY, polite or not, has agreed its the worst ****ing idea ever!! OP hello kitty online is calling you ;)
    \

  5. #20
    Soulwalker
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    I probably went into too much detail/too specific with some of the implementation details. The whole point is to "flatten" the structure, so that new content does not make old content useless and to make otherwise non-progressive "advancement" more worth-while.

    For those of you that screamed "GW2" and its auto-mentoring, it is exactly NOT what I am trying to describe. The idea is that if you have leveled in an area then you will ALWAYS have leveled in that area. GW2, you can always be killed by a level 1 due to the auto-mentoring. Your character has its strength removed - the exact thing that cannot happen in a MMO (or any game)

    I am aware of the studies that show why MMOs are popular. The euphroia from new items, beating challenges and the solial obligations and feeling that you are an important part of the team. I also did not spend enough time above explaining that there are alternatives to "Get gear, throw away the old gear". It was getting late and I was tired. In is possible to maintain the current "Drops advance you" in raids, without having it gear/item related. It is also possible to have teirs of instances - you just make them part of the same "mini level" and make progress to T2 require T1 in a similar stat related way we do now.

    To the idea that the "standing still camping mobs 24/7 would be the optimum way to play" is incorrect. The opposite can, and must, be true. It can be modeled that leveling each "area" equaly is the optimum way to play. You can level in rift by standing still and camping mobs... but is it the best way to level? NO. Go quest, do dungeons, invasions, rifts etc! Infact I CHALLENGE you to level a toon ONLY by killing mobs. NO quests, NO rifts, etc.

    Rift is a really good example for showing the types of "alternate" progressions - Rifts, Strongholds, IAs, Footholds, Invasions... The number of alternate activities is one of the reasons why I started thinking "How could we make these viable for those that want to do it?"

    I can give you a game that had feature X and failed. Its usually not because of some specific thing about the game, but the game in general. There are many WoW clones that have failed... it does not mean that the pattern is bad. So please, step back, look at the whole picture and see if you can see that it is possible to "flatten" the content of a MMO in such a way that you keep areas "hard" and "Current" throughout the lifespan of the game.

    Thanks for the feed back. Its what I expected. If anyone has any more points please post and I will try to show that it is (in theory) possible.

  6. #21
    Champion of Telara Arthritis's Avatar
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    Sounds A LOT like Rift when it first launched.

    Keep me posted on your launch date. I look forward to playing the MMO you described.
    "In the MMO Rift, the players are represented by two separate yet equally important groups: The Defiants who travelled back in time and The Guardians who are The Vigil's Chosen. These are their stories." <Dun! Dun!>

  7. #22
    Rift Disciple Teddy Ruxpin's Avatar
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    Your explanation of leveling sounds a lot like the system in Cubeworld. It was fun for a while but levels became inconsequential after a certain point. There was no level cap but the first few levels impacted your gameplay. Then it felt meaningless.

    In an MMO, I expect my levels to matter. I work for them really hard. If I only got better gear... I don't know. Maybe that'd be incentive enough? I'm curious how talent trees and such would be handled in such a world. It'd create interesting balancing since content would be gated by gear and you could "force" people to run old raids to get geared for new content.

    In fact, I like that idea. Gear determines what content you can run. But how to manage crafting skills and auction housing? What stops a player from buying raid ready gear? There's other issues in the gear=level model but I find it compelling on paper.
    Last edited by Teddy Ruxpin; 01-24-2014 at 12:38 AM.

  8. #23
    Telaran Taxxs's Avatar
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    Guild Wars 2, The Secret World.


    Two MMOs that did pretty much what you explained, were highly anticipated for their "innovating" theories on the MMO scene........



    Both failed miserably. The reality is despite the people moaning about change most MMO players still want the current MMO format, whether they realise it or not.

  9. #24
    Ascendant Galibier's Avatar
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    Pretty much. What was the complaint, for the most part? "Where is my endgame?" was the battle cry.

    Here is the thing...people complain about "grinding". The thing is though they WANT progression. They want to actually feel like their character is getting more powerful in some measurable way. Part of that feeling is not just about looking at numbers on a character sheet, the color of your loot drop etc, it is about killing a mob that before you had that Epic or Relic that would have been impossible to kill without it. To have that feeling of placing your foot on the corpse of that enemy and posing for the camera. You don't get that feeling without some form of challenge to get there. That is one of the things that makes an MMO an MMO. Other games fall into categories of CO-OP and the like.

    People who like that style of game should play that kind of game. My other hobbies is bicycles. I am an avid roadie and cyclocross rider/racer. When I occasionally got mountain biking I don't complain about the narrow single track, roots and rock gardens because that is not my preferred terrain...I deal with it or say "screw it" and hit the road.

  10. #25
    Prophet of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by mieeew View Post
    meh, temporary events every second week with achievements you have to stress to get
    no thanks
    I didn't say it was successful. I was stating his OP pretty much describes GW2 to a tee.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pallydrome View Post
    The ideas the OP give are almost all in GW2.

    And it doesn't work.


    At least not for me, it doesn't.
    It works very well for me, I love that no matter what level my character is at un-capped I still get challenges in lower level zones I've never been to before on that character and I carry on leveling just fine.

  12. #27
    Prophet of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerin View Post
    It works very well for me, I love that no matter what level my character is at un-capped I still get challenges in lower level zones I've never been to before on that character and I carry on leveling just fine.
    The point I'm making is with that model, there is no point in levels at all.

    Don't get me wrong, I had high-hopes for GW2 when it was announced and couldn't wait for it to come out. I was very disappointed in the fact their "end-game" (and yeah, I know, I know....the entire GAME is end game) is grinding for months to get what amounts to a new weapon skin.
    Last edited by Pallydrome; 01-24-2014 at 08:26 AM.

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